Independence for Kosovo, Yes or No?

[MasterJedi]

So do you, yes or no?

[minionofmidas]

I don't care. Either way Kosovo is a EU dependency anyways. What I care about is protection of the rights of the Serbian minority. (We're talking formal independence here, right? No one will misconstrue my answer as advocating an actual return to Serbian rule over the Kosovo?)

[Bono]

Yes.

[MODU]

That's a tough one.  Party of me says yes, since it is essentially it's own state at the moment.  However, I have doubts of its success and that it might lead to yet another war.

[minionofmidas]

Kosovo's independence would add another unnecessary state in the Balkans, and I don't think the Kosovars are ready for independence; the Albanian majority would threaten the Serbian minority. I would support an annexation of Kosovo to Albania

Beh. Thankfully that's off the table. Kosovo is probably more ready for independence now than Albania has ever been.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yes, but not urgently.  At least that border can't be blamed on Wilson as so many of Europe's problems can.  That one comes from the Balkan Wars that preceded the Great War.  If Greece, Serbia, and Bulgaria had bothered to Consider that the Albanians might want self determination too, the Second Balkan War might have been avoided. (It was fought after the remaining spoils needed to be redivided after the Great Powers decreed at the Treaty of London ending the First Balkan War that Albania would be independent instead of split between Greece, Serbia, and Montenegro as planned.)  Given the sparsity of ethnological information of the area at the time and the borders of the existing Ottoman provinces, I can't say that they did too badly for the time.

[Tender Branson]

Yes. Referendum.

[Verily]

Yes. Referendum.

Let the areas contiguous with Serbia that vote more than 55% against stay in Serbia.

Yes.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Status quo.

Independence = mass discrimination against Serbian minority.
Actual return to Serbian rule = mass discrimination against Albanians.

[DWPerry]

I believe in self-determination, if the people of Kosovo want to be independent, they should get it. At the same time if the people of Hawai'i or Alaska want independence they should be given their freedom, as well.

[MasterJedi]

Problem with letting the Serbian areas stay with Serbia:

[Verily]

Problem with letting the Serbian areas stay with Serbia:

Just like my plan for Northern Ireland, it pleases most but leaves a few angry. Most of the Serbs live in areas contiguous with Serbia, and they can stay in Serbia.

(My Northern Ireland plan would be for Fermanagh, Tyrone and Armagh, the mostly nationalist areas, to join Ireland while the rest of NI stays in the UK. That politically defuses the nationalists by putting most of their supporters in Ireland while leaving most of the unionists in Britain. Unfortunately, the nationalist areas of Belfast stay in NI, but that can't be helped.)

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Absolutely not.

[2952-0-0]

It sounds pretty dangerous to simply grant Kosovo independence right away, seeing that another round of ethnic cleansing is the last thing anyone needs. So instead of outright independence, maybe they should follow the Northren Ireland model: both Belgrade and Tirana participate in the Kosovo government, which is still part of Serbia but is granted more local powers. In addition, Albanian citizens can visit Kosovo freely, and Serbians can also do likewise. In the meantime this Kosovo government should promote more cohesion among the two groups. Sounds like pandering to a 10% minority to buy peace, but if that is the only way out of the current limbo, so be it.

[Јas]

Problem with letting the Serbian areas stay with Serbia:

Just like my plan for Northern Ireland, it pleases most but leaves a few angry. Most of the Serbs live in areas contiguous with Serbia, and they can stay in Serbia.

(My Northern Ireland plan would be for Fermanagh, Tyrone and Armagh, the mostly nationalist areas, to join Ireland while the rest of NI stays in the UK. That politically defuses the nationalists by putting most of their supporters in Ireland while leaving most of the unionists in Britain. Unfortunately, the nationalist areas of Belfast stay in NI, but that can't be helped.)

Had the Boundary Commission done it's job properly back in the 20's and implemented a plan similar to your suggestion (which was largely the expectation of the Irish government), many later and very serious problems would have been avoided.

I would say though that along with your suggestions (though the northern half of County Armagh could be excluded), the City of Derry having always had a significant nationalist majority should also have been included in any redrawing on the side of the Free State. I'd also suggest the (now) city of Newry should also have been included.

The failure of the Boundary Commission, to adequately redraw the border, is, IMO, one of the greatest failures of modern Irish history.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BTW, the current PM of Kosovo is a war criminal who belongs behind bars for the rest of his life, not running any independent country.

[GMantis]

Of course not. Kosovo does not deserve independence. The leadership was deeply involved with the KLA and probably still is. The same goes for the army they are proposing. Based on past precedent, the Serbs will be severely discriminated against and will probably be forced out. This happened when Yugoslavia was still strong (before 1989) and there is nothing to prevent it from happening now. Kosovo Albanians are deeply involved in the drug trade and most of their economy is based on that. If they become independent they'll probably become a mafia haven. And lastly, their independence will create a dangerous precedent, not only on the Balkans, but all over Europe, encouraging other independence movements.

[Bono]

And lastly, their independence will create a dangerous precedent, not only on the Balkans, but all over Europe, encouraging other independence movements.

Which is exactly why I support it.

[GMantis]

And lastly, their independence will create a dangerous precedent, not only on the Balkans, but all over Europe, encouraging other independence movements.

Which is exactly why I support it.

I was not quite clear: I meant independence movements in the style of the KLA: terrorism against the state, then when the retaliation comes, cry for help from the international comunity. Of course, this won't affect powerfull or important countries or countries like yours which have no interethnic problems.

[Bono]

And lastly, their independence will create a dangerous precedent, not only on the Balkans, but all over Europe, encouraging other independence movements.

Which is exactly why I support it.

I was not quite clear: I meant independence movements in the style of the KLA: terrorism against the state, then when the retaliation comes, cry for help from the international comunity. Of course, this won't affect powerfull or important countries or countries like yours which have no interethnic problems.

Oh, you meant violent ones. I was thinking more in general.

[Tender Branson]

EU ministers vow to avoid rift on Kosovo

European Union states vowed yesterday to hold a united front on the fate of the breakaway Serbian province of Kosovo, warning a split would wreck the bloc's credibility abroad. Foreign ministers meeting in Portugal conceded the bloc's 27 member states did not see eye-to-eye on whether to recognize a possible declaration of independence by Kosovo's majority Albanians if talks with Serbia fail by a Dec 10 deadline.

Portuguese Foreign Minister Luis Amado, whose country holds the rotating EU presidency and so must forge consensus in the months ahead, said unity on Kosovo was "key to the credibility of Europe's foreign policy".

I cannot conceive that we could have at the end a situation where there is a strong position of Russia, a strong position of the United States, and where Europe simply does not exist," he told a news conference. Serbia has said it could never accept independence for the province of two million people and has the backing of Russia, which holds a veto in the UN Security Council.

Alongside the United States, Britain and France are among EU states ready to recognize Kosovo's sovereignty. Spain, Hungary, Greece, Slovakia, Cyprus and Romania are reluctant, either because of their proximity to the Balkans or fears it could encourage separatists at home.

There are divergences, just as there were before," French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner told reporters. At the Viana meeting, Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt and his Czech Republic counterpart Karel Schwarzenberg both warned Kosovo not to declare independence unilaterally. "The Kosovars would be very well advised to harmonize any step with the EU ... We surely won't be among the first to recognise them," Schwarzenberg told reporters.

Bildt said EU states firmly backed EU mediator Wolfgang Ischinger in his efforts to wring an agreement out of Serbs and Kosovo Albanians over the next three months, and suggested a compromise was still possible. "We will be looking for different alternatives and we'll have to look to see where we are in early December," he said. A split over Kosovo would shatter the bloc's efforts to be a credible foreign policy player more than a decade after it failed to halt the Balkans wars of the 1990s.

It could also weaken the 16,000 NATO-led Kosovo peace force, mostly made up of European troops, and encourage Serb efforts to derail any breakaway move by Kosovo. Diplomats say Germany is anxious about keeping troops there without a new UN mandate. Ischinger said a plan by UN mediator Martti Ahtisaari to set Kosovo on the road to independence with security guarantees for the provinces minority Serbs remained on the table. "The difficulties are big and the chances (of agreement) are slim-but they are there,
he said.

Italy suggested the EU could help the quest for a compromise by offering Serbia status of a candidate country for EU entry, but several countries insisted Belgrade must first bring war crime suspects to justice. "Cooperation with ICTY is essential, then we come to candidate status," Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn said, referring to the Hague-based war crimes tribunal.

http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=MTE0OTQ2ODA4OQ==

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The EU's united front should involve arresting the thug currently running Kosovo and locking him up for life.

[minionofmidas]

The EU's united front should involve arresting the thug currently running Kosovo and locking him up for life.

You mean, the UN appointed governor? Yeah, he probably deserves it. The West has plundered Kosovo so badly that if this stalemate continues much longer, they'll start wanting the Serbs back.

[Gustaf]

Many here seem to take the attitude of "It wouldn't be good to have an independent Kosovo". Good for who? The only ones really in a position to make a deicision are the people of Kosovo and I think they can decide that matter for themselves. If a people wants independence they should get it.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Many here seem to take the attitude of "It wouldn't be good to have an independent Kosovo". Good for who? The only ones really in a position to make a deicision are the people of Kosovo and I think they can decide that matter for themselves. If a people wants independence they should get it.

^^^^^^^.

Also the arguement that it would cause further fragmentation of what's left of Serbia seems somewhat bogus. The only real area of any contention left in the main Serbian bulk is now Vojvodina and that has an ethnically Serb majority...