The Trinity Without Heresy

[Diabolical Materialism]

I recently watched this youtube video that sucks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8s2TDoSc00&ab_channel=RedeemedZoomer

This guy goes over all the different interpretations of the Christian Trinity and after years and years of thinking I understood the concept, it turns out my understanding was the Partialism heresy.

The video does not do a good job of explaining what the Trinity actually is. The more I think I about it the more nonsensical it seems. Can any of you nerds help out?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

[Antonio the Sixth]

The Trinity just requires accepting that the Law of Identity doesn't always work as taught in classical logic: if A is X and B is X, it doesn't necessarily follow that A is B. Of course that's counterintuitive (and some might argue it's outright inconceivable) but a lot of things about logic are, and the question ultimately is what helps us better make sense of reality.

[RI]

The concept of the Trinity really isn't that complicated, as Antonio describes. People only get into trouble when they understandably start analogizing it to other things. At the risk of doing precisely that, the closest I've heard is something like the three primary phases of water at the precise temperature-pressure triple point allowing solid, liquid, and gas to occur simultaneously; however, I'm not sure this quite works as I think the triple point lets all three phases occur in minute physical and temporal proximity to each other, not simultaneously for the exact same molecules (although I could be wrong), but it's not a far leap for the mind to imagine water doing exactly that under some infinitely improbable set of precise conditions: one molecule truly existing as all three phases simultaneously, each phase fully the molecule yet each distinct in attribute.

[Stranger in a strange land]

The Shield of the Trinity is probably the best explanation I've seen:

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Let me say BTW that I'm actually OK with Trinitarian "heresies", but that video above is still hilarious.

[LabourJersey]

The concept of the Trinity really isn't that complicated, as Antonio describes. People only get into trouble when they understandably start analogizing it to other things. At the risk of doing precisely that, the closest I've heard is something like the three primary phases of water at the precise temperature-pressure triple point allowing solid, liquid, and gas to occur simultaneously; however, I'm not sure this quite works as I think the triple point lets all three phases occur in minute physical and temporal proximity to each other, not simultaneously for the exact same molecules (although I could be wrong), but it's not a far leap for the mind to imagine water doing exactly that under some infinitely improbable set of precise conditions: one molecule truly existing as all three phases simultaneously, each phase fully the molecule yet each distinct in attribute.

The Trinity may not be that complicated to accept as a belief, but modern Christians are frankly horrifically bad at talking about the Trinity and bad at convincing those with doubts/reservations about the Trinity.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The concept of the Trinity really isn't that complicated, as Antonio describes. People only get into trouble when they understandably start analogizing it to other things. At the risk of doing precisely that, the closest I've heard is something like the three primary phases of water at the precise temperature-pressure triple point allowing solid, liquid, and gas to occur simultaneously; however, I'm not sure this quite works as I think the triple point lets all three phases occur in minute physical and temporal proximity to each other, not simultaneously for the exact same molecules (although I could be wrong), but it's not a far leap for the mind to imagine water doing exactly that under some infinitely improbable set of precise conditions: one molecule truly existing as all three phases simultaneously, each phase fully the molecule yet each distinct in attribute.

The Trinity may not be that complicated to accept as a belief, but modern Christians are frankly horrifically bad at talking about the Trinity and bad at convincing those with doubts/reservations about the Trinity.

Hence the video I posted above.

[Alcibiades]

OK, so maybe there’s an explanation for how the Trinity can be understood and made to work in a not totally baffling way; the question still remains, what exactly is it supposed to be doing that a simpler understanding of God would not do?

Even as an atheist, I have to admit that there are intuitively compelling reasons which draw people to monotheism. In other words, I can understand why someone pondering the mysteries of reality might end up positing the existence of God. But I completely fail to see how they could come up with the Trinity in this way; that is to say, I fail to see what is supposed to make it an attractive theory.

Theoretical parsimony is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition of truth, but it is, all else equal, a virtue. More fundamentally, sure, I’ll grant you that perhaps the Trinity isn’t completely, baldly nonsensical; but what reason do we have for supposing that it is at all true?

[All Along The Watchtower]

More fundamentally, sure, I’ll grant you that perhaps the Trinity isn’t completely, baldly nonsensical; but what reason do we have for supposing that it is at all true?

Well, it's hard to suppose it's true at all if you don't already believe that a man called Jesus of Nazareth was simultaneously God and the Son of God (Abrahamic).


That's not meant to be flippant or anything, btw.

[RINO Tom]

One thing right off the bar is that we as humans shouldn’t have an EXPECTATION to understand the Trinity.  CS Lewis’ analogy of a 2D shape (a dimension where one shape = one shape, such as a square) trying to comprehend a 3D shape (a dimension where multiple shapes can be one shape, such as a cube being six squares) is a good one … even though I probably butchered it, lol.

[Irenaeus of Smyrna]

Whosoever will be saved , before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith
except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the Catholic Faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither
confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of
the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy
Ghost, is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and
such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the
Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and
the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor
three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are
not three Almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but
one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three
Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both
God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, There be three Gods, or three
Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not
made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor
created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy
Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another; But the
whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity
in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved is must think
thus of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our
Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the
Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man
of the substance of his Mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul
and human flesh subsisting.
Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his manhood;
Who, although he be God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; One, not by conversion of the
Godhead into flesh but by taking of the Manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of
Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is
one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, he sitteth at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he will
come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies and
shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and
they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.


I could not resist the urge to post the whole Athanasian Creed here. It's so beautiful

[wnwnwn]

Search images of the baptism of Jesus and read the Bible passages on that.

[Associate Justice PiT]

More fundamentally, sure, I’ll grant you that perhaps the Trinity isn’t completely, baldly nonsensical; but what reason do we have for supposing that it is at all true?

Well, it's hard to suppose it's true at all if you don't already believe that a man called Jesus of Nazareth was simultaneously God and the Son of God (Abrahamic).


That's not meant to be flippant or anything, btw.

     Indeed, the Trinity is based in the revelation of the Bible. While St. Augustine tries to argue for why it would be necessary for God to be triune, it's not a conclusion one would come to in absence of the words of Christ positing a strange and paradoxical relationship between Him and the Heavenly Father.