Conservatives angry at Airline CEO focusing on DEI policies implying “too many” White men in industr

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Guys, I don't think that Dule and the others here are saying that women can't be pilots, or that all women are completely disinterested in being pilots. All they're saying is that there is a more likely explanation than a shadowy cabal of 1940's mustache twirling male pilots, hellbent on keeping women out of the skies.

That's not how discrimination works.

https://pilotinstitute.com/women-aviation-statistics/

3. Perceptions
Several studies have shown that female pilots tend to be judged more negatively when they make (similar) errors.

More than sexist comments, separate studies have shown that female pilots are judged as being less competent. This trend in responses was observed whether the respondents were male or female, or pilots or non-pilots.

This "source" you linked to is just some flight school making a blog post clearly trying to optimize the site for SEO. It's in this business' best interest to post somewhat click-baity articles to drive traffic to the site. They also don't cite any of the "several studies" that they mention to support the argument that women are "judged more negatively for errors." Furthermore, none of the metrics used in these studies are specified.

How is the conclusion of said studies even determined here? Are they asking students intentionally leading questions to come to a desired answer? We wouldn't even have any way to know based on the way it's referenced on this website.

This is one of the studies:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0967070X21003310

It's clear you're determined to dismiss the possibility of sexism though, so, there really isn't any point in furthering this discussion.

[Sopranos Republican]

Guys, I don't think that Dule and the others here are saying that women can't be pilots, or that all women are completely disinterested in being pilots. All they're saying is that there is a more likely explanation than a shadowy cabal of 1940's mustache twirling male pilots, hellbent on keeping women out of the skies.

That's not how discrimination works.

https://pilotinstitute.com/women-aviation-statistics/

3. Perceptions
Several studies have shown that female pilots tend to be judged more negatively when they make (similar) errors.

More than sexist comments, separate studies have shown that female pilots are judged as being less competent. This trend in responses was observed whether the respondents were male or female, or pilots or non-pilots.

This "source" you linked to is just some flight school making a blog post clearly trying to optimize the site for SEO. It's in this business' best interest to post somewhat click-baity articles to drive traffic to the site. They also don't cite any of the "several studies" that they mention to support the argument that women are "judged more negatively for errors." Furthermore, none of the metrics used in these studies are specified.

How is the conclusion of said studies even determined here? Are they asking students intentionally leading questions to come to a desired answer? We wouldn't even have any way to know based on the way it's referenced on this website.

This is one of the studies:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0967070X21003310

It's clear you're determined to dismiss the possibility of sexism though, so, there really isn't any point in furthering this discussion.

Lol, buddy I’m not “dismissing” anything. I said that the particular source you posted before was dogsh*t. This new link that you posted is a lot more in depth, but also seems to suggest that just as much of the reason for women not becoming pilots is due to women simply not believing that they can become pilots (due to perceived sexism) as it is actual sexism by established men in the industry.

The study aimed to explore whether the low representation of females in pilot roles is because of gender discrimination and the societal stereotype that the pilot is a purely masculine job. Based on the findings, we can conclude that the problem is more complex. Undoubtedly, ignorance about a woman's opportunities as a pilot, stereotypes about the role of women in society and cultural aspects play an important role.

This is why I believe that DEI initiatives can have negative consequences, despite sometimes having good intentions. If you continuously tell people that it’s impossible or extremely difficult for them to do x because they’re (a woman, black, Hispanic etc) it’s likely that a large contingent of those groups will simply never try to do it in the first place.

I’m not denying the possibility of sexism in certain cases, but as your own citation states, it’s certainly not the entire story here.

[VBM]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

He said psychological, not physiological

Typo on my part.

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Explained in the post above yours

[VBM]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

He said psychological, not physiological

Typo on my part.

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

It’s weird that the extremely pro-trans posters are in denial about the male and female mind being different. The argument in favor of transgenderism is that you can be born in a male body but have the mind of a woman or vice versa. If there is literally no differences between the male and female mind, with men and women differing only in their body parts, than how do you square these two beliefs without thinking that gender dysphoria is a mental illness?

[GP270watch]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

He said psychological, not physiological

Typo on my part.

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

It’s weird that the extremely pro-trans posters are in denial about the male and female mind being different. The argument in favor of transgenderism is that you can be born in a male body but have the mind of a woman or vice versa. If there is literally no differences between the male and female mind, with men and women differing only in their body parts, than how do you square these two beliefs without thinking that gender dysphoria is a mental illness?

 It's not weird at all because people exist on spectrums and are also judged externally by society and have no control about how people view them.

[Ferguson97]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

[VBM]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

[John Dule]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Who cares what they're caused by? If an adult person has certain preferences, all I care about is that they do what interests them and makes them happy, regardless of whether that's due to biology or socialization.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

You sound like a phrenologist

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

He said psychological, not physiological

Typo on my part.

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

It’s weird that the extremely pro-trans posters are in denial about the male and female mind being different. The argument in favor of transgenderism is that you can be born in a male body but have the mind of a woman or vice versa. If there is literally no differences between the male and female mind, with men and women differing only in their body parts, than how do you square these two beliefs without thinking that gender dysphoria is a mental illness?

That works both ways.

[VBM]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

You sound like a phrenologist

It's literally a scientific fact that male and female brains are different. Not significantly so, but there are still differences (with neither the male nor female brain being inherently superior to the other)

[VBM]

Guys, I know this will blow your mind but women aren’t just the exact same as men on average but with different body parts, lol.  Blank slate thinking is entirely discredited by science, sorry.  Men and women have different psychological tendencies generally speaking, and unless you’re trying so desperately to pretend like that’s not the case, it shouldn’t shock you that some careers are disproportionately male or female.  No male/female should face adversity individually trying to enter a specific career, but the mere fact certain fields skew heavily one way isn’t a problem that needs fixed.  It’s just reality.

How specifically do women make worse pilots?

Complete non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur? What else could RINO Tom have been insinuating when he was talking about physiological differences?

He said psychological, not physiological

Typo on my part.

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

It’s weird that the extremely pro-trans posters are in denial about the male and female mind being different. The argument in favor of transgenderism is that you can be born in a male body but have the mind of a woman or vice versa. If there is literally no differences between the male and female mind, with men and women differing only in their body parts, than how do you square these two beliefs without thinking that gender dysphoria is a mental illness?

That works both ways.

Well I do believe that someone with a more female-oriented brain can be born in a male body (or vice vera), so you're barking up the wrong tree

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

You sound like a phrenologist

It's literally a scientific fact that male and female brains are different. Not significantly so, but there are still differences (with neither the male nor female brain being inherently superior to the other)

How does that difference impact personal preference in any measurable, significant, or consistent way?

[PSOL]

DEI really is the new Star Wars for Atlas.

[VBM]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

You sound like a phrenologist

It's literally a scientific fact that male and female brains are different. Not significantly so, but there are still differences (with neither the male nor female brain being inherently superior to the other)

How does that difference impact personal preference in any measurable, significant, or consistent way?

Why do you think that men get ticketed for speeding 50% more often?

The very fact that, across basically every job which centers around driving a fast-moving vehicle, ~80% of the workforce is male is the measurement you're looking for. Idk what else you expect me to say.

[John Dule]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

You sound like a phrenologist

Gender science is phrenology, you say? I'm tempted to agree.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

You sound like a phrenologist

It's literally a scientific fact that male and female brains are different. Not significantly so, but there are still differences (with neither the male nor female brain being inherently superior to the other)

How does that difference impact personal preference in any measurable, significant, or consistent way?

Why do you think that men get ticketed for speeding 50% more often?

The very fact that, across basically every job which centers around driving a fast-moving vehicle, ~80% of the workforce is male is the measurement you're looking for. Idk what else you expect me to say.

There is a bias against men in ticketing? Tickets issued ≠ times a person is speeding. Cars are extremely stereotyped in culture as masculine, that’s likely the reason for the discrepancy not some pseudoscience that testosterone makes you speed of whatever

[heatcharger]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

You sound like a phrenologist

It's literally a scientific fact that male and female brains are different. Not significantly so, but there are still differences (with neither the male nor female brain being inherently superior to the other)

How does that difference impact personal preference in any measurable, significant, or consistent way?

Why do you think that men get ticketed for speeding 50% more often?

The very fact that, across basically every job which centers around driving a fast-moving vehicle, ~80% of the workforce is male is the measurement you're looking for. Idk what else you expect me to say.

There is a bias against men in ticketing? Tickets issued ≠ times a person is speeding. Cars are extremely stereotyped in culture as masculine, that’s likely the reason for the discrepancy not some pseudoscience that testosterone makes you speed of whatever

Now let’s try to figure out why cars stereotyped as masculine.

[dead0man]

not some pseudoscience that testosterone makes you speed of whatever

did you really just handwave away the idea that having more testosterone in one's system might make them drive faster on average than someone who doesn't?  As if the idea is ludicrous?  A hormone that is associated with increased aggression, sex drive, dominance, courtship display, and a wide range of behavioral characteristics couldn't possibly have an affect on how fast someone drives?

[John Dule]

not some pseudoscience that testosterone makes you speed of whatever

did you really just handwave away the idea that having more testosterone in one's system might make them drive faster on average than someone who doesn't?  As if the idea is ludicrous?  A hormone that is associated with increased aggression, sex drive, dominance, courtship display, and a wide range of behavioral characteristics couldn't possibly have an affect on how fast someone drives?

It's unreal. Talk about dying on a stupid hill.

[ProgressiveModerate]

I feel like some people work backwards to conclude a gender imbalance in a field is indicative of discrimination and societal expectations. Others argue it reflects the differences in inherent male and female preferences.

But both can be true at the same time. Take pilots for example; perhaps being a pilot appeals more to men, but in an idealistic world where both genders had completely equal barriers to entry, more women would be pilots, but you'd still have a male skew.

Today, I would think the jobs with the biggest imbalances in access for the genders are jobs where networking is really important and the industry as a whole skew toward one gender. Many branches of finance are a good example of this; heavy male skew and your career is heavily dependent on networking / who you know. If you're a woman, it'll likely be hard for you to network with a bunch of dudes since there are just so many social groups you'll be locked out of.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I feel like some people work backwards to conclude a gender imbalance in a field is indicative of discrimination and societal expectations. Others argue it reflects the differences in inherent male and female preferences.

But both can be true at the same time. Take pilots for example; perhaps being a pilot appeals more to men, but in an idealistic world where both genders had completely equal barriers to entry, more women would be pilots, but you'd still have a male skew.

Today, I would think the jobs with the biggest imbalances in access for the genders are jobs where networking is really important and the industry as a whole skew toward one gender. Many branches of finance are a good example of this; heavy male skew and your career is heavily dependent on networking / who you know. If you're a woman, it'll likely be hard for you to network with a bunch of dudes since there are just so many social groups you'll be locked out of.

What would be the closest female version of this?

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

What are these supposed psychological differences?

Preferences and interests.

And you think those are naturally ingrained due to biology/brain chemistry, and not due to socialization?

Why not both?

You sound like a phrenologist

This and other posts you have made in this thread are shameful and embarrassing. You're studying to be a scientist for god's sake.

I'm hesitant to degrade myself by wading into this idiotic debate at all but even if it was entirely due to socialization that doesn't refute that the differences is still real and observable. Once again, progressives really have an incredibly difficult grasp of the is/ought distinction (and don't worry - I'm aware that this one is surely social rather than biological).

[ProgressiveModerate]

I feel like some people work backwards to conclude a gender imbalance in a field is indicative of discrimination and societal expectations. Others argue it reflects the differences in inherent male and female preferences.

But both can be true at the same time. Take pilots for example; perhaps being a pilot appeals more to men, but in an idealistic world where both genders had completely equal barriers to entry, more women would be pilots, but you'd still have a male skew.

Today, I would think the jobs with the biggest imbalances in access for the genders are jobs where networking is really important and the industry as a whole skew toward one gender. Many branches of finance are a good example of this; heavy male skew and your career is heavily dependent on networking / who you know. If you're a woman, it'll likely be hard for you to network with a bunch of dudes since there are just so many social groups you'll be locked out of.

What would be the closest female version of this?

Increasingly many branches of academia

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I feel like some people work backwards to conclude a gender imbalance in a field is indicative of discrimination and societal expectations. Others argue it reflects the differences in inherent male and female preferences.

But both can be true at the same time. Take pilots for example; perhaps being a pilot appeals more to men, but in an idealistic world where both genders had completely equal barriers to entry, more women would be pilots, but you'd still have a male skew.

Today, I would think the jobs with the biggest imbalances in access for the genders are jobs where networking is really important and the industry as a whole skew toward one gender. Many branches of finance are a good example of this; heavy male skew and your career is heavily dependent on networking / who you know. If you're a woman, it'll likely be hard for you to network with a bunch of dudes since there are just so many social groups you'll be locked out of.

What would be the closest female version of this?

Increasingly many branches of academia

Yeah, I can see that.
Especially as most college educated people nowadays are women and generational turnover is really starting to assert itself.