Are Gazans morally obligated to attempt to remove Hamas from power?

[VBM]

Imo the answer is an obvious yes, but a disheartening amount of progressives would say no.

If your government is actively attempting to commit genocide, the citizens of said nation should do whatever it takes to overthrow their government. If Trump wins in 2024 and he actually ends up being as bad as even the most hyperbolic resistance libs think he’ll be, with him turning the US into a dictatorship, committing genocide against minorities, and invading other countries, than every U.S. citizen would be morally obligated to do whatever it takes to remove him from power, no matter how hard that task is. Complacency is a sin in this case

[Ferguson97]

Half of Gaza's residents are children, and they're currently trying to avoid being killed by the IDF. I don't think that overthrowing their government is the first thing on their minds.

[VBM]

Half of Gaza's residents are children, and they're currently trying to avoid being killed by the IDF. I don't think that overthrowing their government is the first thing on their minds.

So if Gazans should not be expected to make any attempt to overthrow their genocidal government, and no foreign countries can attempt to remove Hamas from power because it’ll inevitably cause innocent Gazans to die due to Hamas using them as human shields, than how should we address the Hamas problem? Hope that God is real and that he’ll finally decide to smite every member of Hamas? Hope that Hamas will gradually deradicalize over time for some reason, and just pray that the amount of Jews killed by them is kept at a minimum?

What if Trump successfully becomes a dictator and his regime attempts to commit genocide against all Latinos, both within and outside the US? Should white Americans not lift a finger to help save your family and your ethnicity because organizing a rebellion is a lot of work?

[pppolitics]

Netanyahu has been propping up Hamas for years to thwart the two-state solution.

[VBM]

Netanyahu has been propping up Hamas for years to thwart the two-state solution.

Can you answer the question?

[VBM]

Keep in mind that I’m not arguing that putting your life at risk to overthrow your extremely evil and dangerous government is an easy choice to make, I’m arguing that it’s the right choice to make. I can sympathize with Gazans and Russians who don’t support their government but don’t have the bravery to rebel, but ultimately they’re still making the wrong choice.

[Alben Barkley]

Yes, the same way Germans were morally obligated to attempt to remove the Nazis from power and some did and paid with their lives for it. That leaves no excuse for those who didn't.

[Vice President Christian Man]

My concern with this is who would replace them? I denounce any use of violence, but even if we were to turn back time and assassinate Hitler, Nazism was still popular at least until Dresden and even then there were sizeable Nazi sympathies that outlasted the war. The correct solution would be for an outside country to broker a peace treaty which guarantees religious freedom for that region. It wouldn't solve the problems, but it would be a step in the right direction at least in theory. It's just unfortunate that that's likely how the Antichrist will rise to power.

[Horus]

Of course not. Some people are just trying to make it through the day.

Half of Gaza's residents are children, and they're currently trying to avoid being killed by the IDF. I don't think that overthrowing their government is the first thing on their minds.

What if Trump successfully becomes a dictator and his regime attempts to commit genocide against all Latinos, both within and outside the US? Should white Americans not lift a finger to help save your family and your ethnicity because organizing a rebellion is a lot of work?

If people did stand up and fight that would be great but not everyone is cut out to be a hero. That's okay.

[LBJer]

Yes, the same way Germans were morally obligated to attempt to remove the Nazis from power and some did and paid with their lives for it. That leaves no excuse for those who didn't.

It makes the great majority who didn't normal human beings.  It's ridiculous to condemn people for not engaging in behavior that required an extremely rare degree of courage.  What exactly would you have done if you had lived in Nazi Germany?

[Ferguson97]

Yes, the same way Germans were morally obligated to attempt to remove the Nazis from power and some did and paid with their lives for it. That leaves no excuse for those who didn't.

Are you going to join a resistance if Trump tries to become a dictator?

[VBM]

Of course not. Some people are just trying to make it through the day.

Half of Gaza's residents are children, and they're currently trying to avoid being killed by the IDF. I don't think that overthrowing their government is the first thing on their minds.

What if Trump successfully becomes a dictator and his regime attempts to commit genocide against all Latinos, both within and outside the US? Should white Americans not lift a finger to help save your family and your ethnicity because organizing a rebellion is a lot of work?

If people did stand up and fight that would be great but not everyone is cut out to be a hero. That's okay.

Ok, so if Gaza is under no obligation to remove its genocidal government from power, and you clearly don’t believe that any foreign government should attempt to remove Hamas from power since civilians will inevitably die due to Hamas using them as human shields, how do you think we should deal with Hamas? Just hope that they’ll deradicalize on their own?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Frankly, I find it appalling to presume to tell people currently living under the kinds of conditions currently prevailing in Gaza what their "moral obligations" are from the comfort of first-world living.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

I don't dispute that Hamas would like to commit genocide, but claiming that a terrorist act, no matter how evil, is genocide is absurd.

On the other hand, you have, out of a population of 2.3 million, 22,000 Palestinians killed and at least 1/4 facing starvation and other health issues. If anybody is defacto committing genocide it's Netanyahu.

Though not in the present 'war cabinet' in Netanyahu's previous coalition were party leaders who spoke favorably of committing genocide against the Palestinians, so this is not something that Netanyahu/Likud dismiss/condemn out of hand.

So, given this reality, are Israelis morally obligated to attempt to remove Netanyahu/Likud from power?

My own view is that Netanyahu is not trying to commit genocide, but is trying to create an untenable position so as to force Egypt to accept most/all of the Gazans into living in Egypt permanently so as to claim the Gaza Strip for Israel with a Jewish population.

[pppolitics]

Netanyahu has been propping up Hamas for years to thwart the two-state solution.

Can you answer the question?

The answer is NO.

Half of Gaza’s population under 18 and weren’t even around when Hamas was voted into power.

Israelis are morally obligated to remove Bibi and his cronies from power for propping up Hamas.

[VBM]

Netanyahu has been propping up Hamas for years to thwart the two-state solution.

Can you answer the question?

The answer is NO.

Half of Gaza’s population under 18 and weren’t even around when Hamas was voted into power.

Israelis are morally obligated to remove Bibi and his cronies from power for propping up Hamas.

So who should remove Hamas from power?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

How?  It doesn't make sense to speak of an obligation where there isn't an opportunity. And if Hamas does fall and then Islamic Jihad & PFLP step into the vacuum, that hardly improves things.

Their obligation is to teach their children not to hate Israelis and to work for peace. That's the only way forward long term, and if they had been doing that all along there wouldn't be this mess.

[TheReckoning]

Generally speaking, people are not morally obligated to risk their lives.

[VBM]

Generally speaking, people are not morally obligated to risk their lives.

They are when their past actions are putting other people’s lives at risk

[Ferguson97]

Generally speaking, people are not morally obligated to risk their lives.

They are when their past actions are putting other people’s lives at risk

Whose past actions? Something like 90% of the Gazan population either wasn't alive for the 2006 elections, was alive but not old enough to vote, or voted for someone other than Hamas.

[Pres Mike]

Imo the answer is an obvious yes, but a disheartening amount of progressives would say no.

If your government is actively attempting to commit genocide, the citizens of said nation should do whatever it takes to overthrow their government. If Trump wins in 2024 and he actually ends up being as bad as even the most hyperbolic resistance libs think he’ll be, with him turning the US into a dictatorship, committing genocide against minorities, and invading other countries, than every U.S. citizen would be morally obligated to do whatever it takes to remove him from power, no matter how hard that task is. Complacency is a sin in this case

No, the majority of Gaza are children

The adults? No, because no one is aiding them. Hamas is supported by both Iran and Israel (secretly)

You can expect civilans to risk their lives and fight armed oppressors without foreign aid

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I certainly would not presume to try to answer this question from the comfort and safety of my rather large, multi-room apartment in an affluent American suburb.  Honestly, this is a question which - regardless of what your opinion about what the correct answer may be - no one on atlas has any business trying to answer.  

None of us can imagine what life is like for these folks nor can any of us honestly say we know what we’d do in that situation.  Theoretically, one could argue either way and there’s certainly an obligation not to actively/willingly help Hamas, but beyond that it’s pretty gross to see folks act like we’re in a position to try and answer this question.

[Upper Canada Tory]

I support Israel and oppose Hamas, but I would avoid trying to prescribe any kind of moral obligations on the Gazan civilian population.

The reality is that overthrowing Hamas is not so easy - like other authoritarian dictatorships, it is a deeply entrenched regime in their society, and dissenting can get you seriously harmed or killed. Would it be a lot harder for Hamas to entrench its power without the support or passive acceptance of many Gazans? Yes, but even if Gazans tried to remove Hamas from power, the consequence if they failed could be being killed by Hamas. So my answer would be no, Gazans are not morally obligated to remove Hamas from power.

International law works at the state level, not at the level of civilians. Hamas is not the legitimate government of Gaza - the Palestinian Authority is. Hamas is legally obligated to give control of Gaza to the PA, dismantle its terrorist military wing, and allow democratic elections to take place. But the population of Gaza currently cannot do anything meaningful to make that happen.

[Upper Canada Tory]

Netanyahu has been propping up Hamas for years to thwart the two-state solution.

No he hasn't - in fact, Netanyahu attempted to negotiate with Fatah many years ago and the peace talks continued until Fatah and Hamas made a deal with each other. Shortly after this, Hamas began to kidnap and murder Israeli teenagers (while in a coalition with Fatah) and the 2014 Israel-Hamas war began. The same people who today accuse Netanyahu of having propped up Hamas are the ones who chastised him in 2014 for 'rejecting Palestinian unity'.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/middle-east-israel-halts-peace-talks-palestinians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_Agreements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gush_Etzion_kidnapping_and_murder

The claim that Netanyahu wanted to prop up Hamas comes from a dubious source - allegedly someone (an unnamed source) claimed that they heard Netanyahu express the intention to do so during the 2019 Likud convention, but I have not seen any evidence to back this up (if someone else has, correct me if I'm wrong).