European Integration

[mileslunn]

And whatever you support say why.  Mine is keep EU as is but perhaps as was done with Euro allow a two speed so those who want greater integration can have it while those who oppose greater integration aren't forced to and don't hold back those who want more.  Dissolving the EU is outright foolish even though seems popular with many on right in Anglosphere despite problems with Brexit.  And with UK always being a peripheral member and also one of larger I suspect any other member leaving would be even more problematic.

An EU superstate may be popular with some in academia and many working for EU, but totally unrealistic.  Cultural differences are too great for it to be feasible.  Sure it maybe geographically smaller than US, population smaller than India and China, but US has a common culture EU lacks.  India is united by a common religion and history while 90% of China is Han Chinese and I suspect many minorities like Uyghurs and Tibetans would be independent countries if China were a democracy.  Canada also bad example as while larger in size than EU and multicultural, it has two languages and two dominant cultures and even there its not like there aren't people in Canada who feel alienated and country is too large to work.  Not enough to make a breakup any risk, but still alienation you see by some in Quebec & Alberta would be far greater in an EU superstate. 

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

I mean if everything were perfect i'd want some world federation or something but that's not happening


I think EU federalism isn't extremely far-fetched but it'd have to be a very slow process, and obviously there would be a ton of pushback.

I guess one could argue that the EU is already a superstate but a deeply decentralized one, a confederation or something.

[Blue3]

A federal EU republic would be best… but it needs significant reforms. It’s currently way too bureaucratic and complex. It would need some streamlining and simplification, clearer foundation of rights and democracy, and increased transparency.

[Long Live Israel]

Dissolve the EU even if ID becomes the 3rd largest group and form a coalition with the EPP and ECR, as long as stuff like the ECHR exists it's not worth it.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

A federal EU republic would be best… but it needs significant reforms. It’s currently way too bureaucratic and complex. It would need some streamlining and simplification, clearer foundation of rights and democracy, and increased transparency.

-> Second

[mileslunn]

I mean if everything were perfect i'd want some world federation or something but that's not happening


I think EU federalism isn't extremely far-fetched but it'd have to be a very slow process, and obviously there would be a ton of pushback.

I guess one could argue that the EU is already a superstate but a deeply decentralized one, a confederation or something.

EU does have some country like characteristics such as ability to make laws, common currency.  But also lacks some key ones like no common army, no ability to raise taxes (revenue comes from national taxes countries remit just like members of UN all do only much higher amount), no exclusive citizenship (yes there are EU passports, but they still mention country and also there isn't anyway to apply for EU citizenship, instead one who becomes a citizen of any member state becomes an EU citizen), immigration laws for third countries separate.  In many ways it is a unique hybrid as has far more power than any other international organization and has some country like characteristics.  But at same time lacks some key ones and is pretty much more decentralized than any existing federation.  I guess perhaps has more power than UK does over British overseas territories, but if you look at other federations like Canada, US, Mexico, Australia etc, they all have national armies, all national governments have ability to directly raise taxes.

I think real problem is while most Europeans are proud to be European, they are loyal first and foremost to country from and European identity is secondary.  By contrast in US, most are American first and state second and usually what people identify as first is key.  Heck even EU, you have some regions where many want to break away from existing country, see Catalonia or when they were EU member had Scotland.  So its not like all 27 members are 100% united.  Some are, but some are not.

[President Johnson]

The first in the very long run, for now status quo out of these options.

While the EU is in need of some reforms, it's one of the best international organizations that were ever invented. It brought peace, stability, the rule of law and prosperity to the continent for decades.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The first in the very long run, for now status quo out of these options.

While the EU is in need of some reforms, it's one of the best international organizations that were ever invented. It brought peace, stability, the rule of law and prosperity to the continent for decades.

With that I agree

[Antonio the Sixth]

A fully federal Europe is the only way for this continent to actually matter in the coming century.

[lfromnj]

A fully federal Europe is the only way for this continent to actually matter in the coming century.

Which is exactly why I oppose it

[Antonio the Sixth]

A fully federal Europe is the only way for this continent to actually matter in the coming century.

Which is exactly why I oppose it

We know.

[mileslunn]

The first in the very long run, for now status quo out of these options.

While the EU is in need of some reforms, it's one of the best international organizations that were ever invented. It brought peace, stability, the rule of law and prosperity to the continent for decades.

I agree a federal Europe has lots of positives, but looking at how people are voting, I don't see it coming anytime soon.  For it to happen you would need to return to like late 90s where Christian Democrat, Liberal, and Social Democrats dominated and maybe Greens, but right wing populists were either non-existent or on fringe, not getting in double digits like they are today.

[Upper Canada Tory]

I am very opposed to supranational unions and would rather just have sovereign states that control their own laws, currency, and immigration policy. If I were a citizen of an EU country I definitely would want my country out of the EU. I think that putting a supranational entity in control of your country's fate is a form of voluntary imperialism and it's just a matter of time before it is used against your nation's interests.

With that said, different countries have had different outcomes as a result of EU membership and there are varying levels of support among the populations of different EU member states, so I said 'status quo'. For some countries it may in fact be beneficial in some ways, such as the Baltic states which wanted to become more distant from Russia and more integrated with the West. For the record, I think an EU superstate would also be a terrible idea, as you can probably infer from the first paragraph.

[Farmlands]

I don't even want to start imagining the massive inequalities, bureaucracy and dilution of national identity that would come with a federal EU. It might be an inevitability, but one can only hope there would be some reforms before then.

[patzer]

Two speed Europe with countries able to choose between looser union similar to the current EU but weaker, and a federal state

[PSOL]

The nonexistance of the Roman empire and efforts at loosening the control of its vestiges through the reformation led to quality of life rising for a vast majority of people and set the stage for the benefits of the modern era. What we see regarding the EU is not that different from these past crises where it makes sense for its abolishment. There can be no reform of the EU.

The idea of a United Europe under a new entity has went past its prime for more than a thousand years, different people should be able to decide their own rules, customs, and destiny.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Slightly tighter union than right now. Voted status quo as that's the closest polling option to that.

[Electric Circus]

Pan-Hapsburg American-led EU alternative?

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

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Real answer: Whatever makes NATO most effective.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Given that the raison d'être of the EU increasingly seems to be divesting people of popular sovereignty and dictating policy to them from Brussels, I am not sympathetic to its continued existence.

[Frodo]

I would strongly prefer an EU superstate, but a transitional EU evolving in that direction is just as acceptable, as it is in American interests to have a strong Europe able to protect itself from Russian aggression (instead of being perpetually dependent on us for their security), while we turn our attention towards the Asia-Pacific region. 

[ingemann]

I support further integration, but I embrace the EU principle that any decision should be taken as close to the citizens as possible, so some decision should be transferred to Brussel and som3 should be kept in the countries.

[Blue3]

    Given that the raison d'être of the EU increasingly seems to be divesting people of popular sovereignty and dictating policy to them from Brussels, I am not sympathetic to its continued existence.

That's why, while I voted for superstate, in my post I clarified it would need to include a big increase in democracy and transparency, and further guaranteeing individual rights in an enforceable way (does the EU have its own "Supreme Court" yet to strike down EU policies that may go against rights and autonomy?)

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

I mean if everything were perfect i'd want some world federation or something but that's not happening


I think EU federalism isn't extremely far-fetched but it'd have to be a very slow process, and obviously there would be a ton of pushback.

I guess one could argue that the EU is already a superstate but a deeply decentralized one, a confederation or something.

EU does have some country like characteristics such as ability to make laws, common currency.  But also lacks some key ones like no common army, no ability to raise taxes (revenue comes from national taxes countries remit just like members of UN all do only much higher amount), no exclusive citizenship (yes there are EU passports, but they still mention country and also there isn't anyway to apply for EU citizenship, instead one who becomes a citizen of any member state becomes an EU citizen), immigration laws for third countries separate.  In many ways it is a unique hybrid as has far more power than any other international organization and has some country like characteristics.  But at same time lacks some key ones and is pretty much more decentralized than any existing federation.  I guess perhaps has more power than UK does over British overseas territories, but if you look at other federations like Canada, US, Mexico, Australia etc, they all have national armies, all national governments have ability to directly raise taxes.

I think real problem is while most Europeans are proud to be European, they are loyal first and foremost to country from and European identity is secondary.  By contrast in US, most are American first and state second and usually what people identify as first is key.  Heck even EU, you have some regions where many want to break away from existing country, see Catalonia or when they were EU member had Scotland.  So its not like all 27 members are 100% united.  Some are, but some are not.

Yeah, I was thinking more like Articles of Confederation USA. Very decentralized and dysfunctional in a lot of ways.

The EU has a lot of issues, but if they can be ironed out in a federative system with strong democratic and transparent ideals, that would be the best.