Opinion of Arianism

[Samof94]

I myself am an atheist, but this question is only applicable to Christians and obviously does not apply to other religions, such as Judaism.  The idea of Arianism is that God Created Jesus and God the Father is superior to Jesus(who is still God, but there is no Triune God). Issac Newton had a belief system a bit like this.

[PSOL]

A historically progressive force in maintaining the original Christian intent of ending the Roman Empire.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Feels like a watering down of the core message of Christianity tbh. I don't really see the appeal except in making its cosmology seem a bit less weird.

[Blue3]

Isn’t Arianism widely misunderstood and oversimplified from the “winners” of that debate?

[RINO Tom]

A historically progressive force in maintaining the original Christian intent of ending the Roman Empire.

What a fabulously nonsensical thing to say, lmao.  Stick to materialism, no need to pretend you have a dog in this fight.  Your views have no relevant history to speak of, of course.

Anyway, an incredibly simplistic and even more selective view of Scripture is necessary to accept Arianism OR Modalism (to which Arianism developed in opposition).  There’s a reason the Trinity won out, and it’s not what internet conspiracy theorists would like to believe.  The Bible CLEARLY indicates Jesus came to save Mankind.  Arius’ version of Christ cannot achieve that.  Ryan Reeves explains this quite well on YouTube.

With that said, Freedom Topic to study!  I wish we had more sources from Arius and his supporters, as it’s a fascinating (if terribly misguided) theology.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Interesting viewpoint, but I don't see it as a legit form of christianity as it rejects the Trinity.

[Blue3]

Interesting viewpoint, but I don't see it as a legit form of christianity as it rejects the Trinity.

Well the whole debate is if you can have Christianity without the traditional view of the Trinity. A very small detail was a major factor in the Catholic-Orthodox split.

Many denominations started in the last 300 years have also had a nontraditional view of the Trinity and Incarnation. Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormonism), Pentacostalism, I think Jehovah Witnesses, etc.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Interesting viewpoint, but I don't see it as a legit form of christianity as it rejects the Trinity.

Well the whole debate is if you can have Christianity without the traditional view of the Trinity. A very small detail was a major factor in the Catholic-Orthodox split.

Many denominations started in the last 300 years have also had a nontraditional view of the Trinity and Incarnation. Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormonism), Pentacostalism, I think Jehovah Witnesses, etc.

I think you can, but placing one part of the Trinity as superior to another, as Arianism does, is where I would consider it to be a rejection of the Trinity and thus not a legit form of christianity. As far as I can tell, neither Pentacostalism nor Mormonism cross that line, although you're correct that JW does.

[Blue3]

Why would that make it illegitimate? While the father, son, and Holy Spirit are all mentioned in the gospels, we also have Jesus praying to the Father, and similar instances. With some evidence for both sides, it should be that both are Christianity.

And Arius himself said he believed in the Trinity, and one god with three persons, just different relations. Similar but not the same as the filoque disagreement. The Son was created and a slightly subordinate, but still created before the creation of the universe. He was also reinstated in Constantinople after the Nicene Creed (which Arius himself didn’t attend), before the end of his life.

[LabourJersey]

Interesting viewpoint, but I don't see it as a legit form of christianity as it rejects the Trinity.

Well the whole debate is if you can have Christianity without the traditional view of the Trinity. A very small detail was a major factor in the Catholic-Orthodox split.

Many denominations started in the last 300 years have also had a nontraditional view of the Trinity and Incarnation. Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormonism), Pentacostalism, I think Jehovah Witnesses, etc.

While I subscribe to the Nicene creed, I think it's unrealistic to everyone who follows Christ but doesn't fully believe in Nicene Christianity "not Christian."

In addition to the denominations you list, I frankly a lot of rank-and-file Christians either don't believe in the Trinity, have warped ideas of it (Protestants unfairly attack Catholic Marionology but I'm aware of a couple Catholics who treat her on the level of the Trinity), or don't understand it at all.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Why would that make it illegitimate? While the father, son, and Holy Spirit are all mentioned in the gospels, we also have Jesus praying to the Father, and similar instances. With some evidence for both sides, it should be that both are Christianity.

And Arius himself said he believed in the Trinity, and one god with three persons, just different relations. Similar but not the same as the filoque disagreement. The Son was created and a slightly subordinate, but still created before the creation of the universe. He was also reinstated in Constantinople after the Nicene Creed (which Arius himself didn’t attend), before the end of his life.

     If Jesus is a created being, it follows that He cannot be part of the Trinity, which is God. To maintain that the Trinity includes a created being would mean that the Muslims are correct in denouncing it as a blasphemous and idolatrous doctrine, because the Christian Tradition demands that Jesus is due worship that properly belongs to God alone.

[Blue3]

Why would that make it illegitimate? While the father, son, and Holy Spirit are all mentioned in the gospels, we also have Jesus praying to the Father, and similar instances. With some evidence for both sides, it should be that both are Christianity.

And Arius himself said he believed in the Trinity, and one god with three persons, just different relations. Similar but not the same as the filoque disagreement. The Son was created and a slightly subordinate, but still created before the creation of the universe. He was also reinstated in Constantinople after the Nicene Creed (which Arius himself didn’t attend), before the end of his life.

     If Jesus is a created being, it follows that He cannot be part of the Trinity, which is God. To maintain that the Trinity includes a created being would mean that the Muslims are correct in denouncing it as a blasphemous and idolatrous doctrine, because the Christian Tradition demands that Jesus is due worship that properly belongs to God alone.

Well, that’s part of the disagreement.
But if God is all-powerful, couldn’t he create other persons within the Godhead?

[Associate Justice PiT]

Why would that make it illegitimate? While the father, son, and Holy Spirit are all mentioned in the gospels, we also have Jesus praying to the Father, and similar instances. With some evidence for both sides, it should be that both are Christianity.

And Arius himself said he believed in the Trinity, and one god with three persons, just different relations. Similar but not the same as the filoque disagreement. The Son was created and a slightly subordinate, but still created before the creation of the universe. He was also reinstated in Constantinople after the Nicene Creed (which Arius himself didn’t attend), before the end of his life.

     If Jesus is a created being, it follows that He cannot be part of the Trinity, which is God. To maintain that the Trinity includes a created being would mean that the Muslims are correct in denouncing it as a blasphemous and idolatrous doctrine, because the Christian Tradition demands that Jesus is due worship that properly belongs to God alone.

Well, that’s part of the disagreement.
But if God is all-powerful, couldn’t he create other persons within the Godhead?

     Uncreatedness is a characteristic of God, so it would be incoherent for a created being to be part of the Godhead. It would be like saying that God is all-powerful, couldn't He make a square circle?

[RINO Tom]

https://youtu.be/Nduka-QqXbQ?si=pHsV98kZM7dwh2q4

Obviously, the lecturer here (Dr. Ryan Reeves) does not agree with Arianism, but I think this is a compelling video.  Arius was so afraid of Modalism that he took it to the opposite extreme.  To believe in Arianism, you have to read Scripture QUITE selectively and have total tunnel vision.

[Irenaeus of Smyrna]

Why would that make it illegitimate? While the father, son, and Holy Spirit are all mentioned in the gospels, we also have Jesus praying to the Father, and similar instances. With some evidence for both sides, it should be that both are Christianity.

And Arius himself said he believed in the Trinity, and one god with three persons, just different relations. Similar but not the same as the filoque disagreement. The Son was created and a slightly subordinate, but still created before the creation of the universe. He was also reinstated in Constantinople after the Nicene Creed (which Arius himself didn’t attend), before the end of his life.

     If Jesus is a created being, it follows that He cannot be part of the Trinity, which is God. To maintain that the Trinity includes a created being would mean that the Muslims are correct in denouncing it as a blasphemous and idolatrous doctrine, because the Christian Tradition demands that Jesus is due worship that properly belongs to God alone.

Whosoever will be saved , before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith
except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the Catholic Faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither
confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of
the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy
Ghost, is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and
such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the
Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and
the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor
three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are
not three Almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but
one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three
Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both
God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, There be three Gods, or three
Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not
made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor
created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy
Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another; But the
whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity
in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved is must think
thus of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our
Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the
Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man
of the substance of his Mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul
and human flesh subsisting.
Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his manhood;
Who, although he be God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; One, not by conversion of the
Godhead into flesh but by taking of the Manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of
Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is
one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, he sitteth at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he will
come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies and
shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and
they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.