Why is Athens, GA so liberal compared to other Deep South college towns?

[GALeftist]

Thought this was an interesting question whose answer isn’t immediately obvious. Tuscaloosa and Oxford are much less liberal, and neither Baton Rouge nor Columbia are college towns.

[GAinDC]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

[ProgressiveModerate]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

Are sorority/frat kids necessarily more Conservative/Republican than their college peers? Basing off stereotypes of privilidged white kids who came from money and just came to college to party, it would make sense. The reality though is that at least these days, those people make a up a minority of frats and sororities, with many being oriented around community service and even activism traditionally associated with D-leaning politics.

[mileslunn]

There are others as Asheville, Gainesville, and Chapel Hill all in South and are pretty reliably Democrat.  Places like Oxford, Mississippi probably get far fewer out of state residents as well as racial polarization is more extreme in Mississippi than it is in Georgia

[ottermax]

Could it just be that being a larger population state the university has more of a selection bias than other state schools would have in the South?

Florida and North Carolina college towns are also quite liberal. Additionally being a larger state means more money to fund the town including professors and the businesses that support the town. Institutions in other Southern states have a much smaller population base.

[Del Tachi]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

This is something that goes misunderstood about college town politics in general, I feel.  Undergrads (in as much as they even vote where they go to school) are not the base of Democratic support.  It's the townies and university staff/faculty.  This is especially appreciable at UGA, where the "conservative" undergrad culture contrasts with liberal Athens.

The Khaki Line be a thing for real.

[Del Tachi]

There are others as Asheville, Gainesville, and Chapel Hill all in South and are pretty reliably Democrat.  Places like Oxford, Mississippi probably get far fewer out of state residents as well as racial polarization is more extreme in Mississippi than it is in Georgia

Ole Miss is >50% out-of-state at this point, but it's mostly fratty try-hards from Texas or Georgia that couldn't get in to their own state schools.  Mississippi State is the more in-state school (~60%, we proudly carry the moniker "the People's University") but Starkville/MSU remains more liberal than Oxford/Ole Miss.

[Oryxslayer]

Maybe the real question that needs to be answered by this thread is why some college town counties (lets use this identifier cause Athens consolidated local government a few decades back) are recognizable urban centers and large population hubs, and why some are just the university and not much else. Some examples of the former are Tuscaloosa AL, Clarke GA, Alachua FL, Orange NC, Charlottesville+Albemarle VA. Some examples of the second group are Athens OH, Lafayette MS, Watauga NC, and Harrisonburg VA. 

[GAinDC]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

Are sorority/frat kids necessarily more Conservative/Republican than their college peers? Basing off stereotypes of privilidged white kids who came from money and just came to college to party, it would make sense. The reality though is that at least these days, those people make a up a minority of frats and sororities, with many being oriented around community service and even activism traditionally associated with D-leaning politics.

At UGA they are way more conservative. They serve as insular, exclusive, wealthy and largely white institutions. Most of the greek kids I knew in college were more conservative — if they were political at all. Many come from prominent families in small towns in rural GA, or from very wealthy ATL suburbs. Many hosted charity events, and actually did a lot of good, but I’m not sure either political party has a monopoly on philanthropy.

Of course, I was in college 10-15 years ago. It may be different, but back then sororities and fraternities were conservative bastions, and it was only a question of how conservative.

[GAinDC]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

This is something that goes misunderstood about college town politics in general, I feel.  Undergrads (in as much as they even vote where they go to school) are not the base of Democratic support.  It's the townies and university staff/faculty.  This is especially appreciable at UGA, where the "conservative" undergrad culture contrasts with liberal Athens.

The Khaki Line be a thing for real.

Absolutely. In Athens, there was even a line of demarcation for the bars in downtown. The bars on the east side were more likely to serve tequila shots and jager bombs to preppy kids, while the bars on the west side served craft beer and cocktails to hipsters.

[Del Tachi]

Could it just be that being a larger population state the university has more of a selection bias than other state schools would have in the South?

Florida and North Carolina college towns are also quite liberal. Additionally being a larger state means more money to fund the town including professors and the businesses that support the town. Institutions in other Southern states have a much smaller population base.

Even in Gainesville and Chapel Hill, the undergrads are more conservative than the townies.

[Del Tachi]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

Are sorority/frat kids necessarily more Conservative/Republican than their college peers? Basing off stereotypes of privilidged white kids who came from money and just came to college to party, it would make sense. The reality though is that at least these days, those people make a up a minority of frats and sororities, with many being oriented around community service and even activism traditionally associated with D-leaning politics.

At UGA they are way more conservative. They serve as insular, exclusive, wealthy and largely white institutions. Most of the greek kids I knew in college were more conservative — if they were political at all. Many come from prominent families in small towns in rural GA, or from very wealthy ATL suburbs. Many hosted charity events, and actually did a lot of good, but I’m not sure either political party has a monopoly on philanthropy.

Of course, I was in college 10-15 years ago. It may be different, but back then sororities and fraternities were conservative bastions, and it was only a question of how conservative.

Yes, agree.  Greek life in the South remains very insulated and "White" in a way that really just isn't the case in other parts of the country.  The reputation of Alabama or Ole Miss* sorority rush precedes it for a reason, after all.  Fraternities in other parts of the country are diverse and progressive in a way that hasn't caught on in the SEC and quite possibly never will (save Vandy, LOL.)

*People outside the South are very surprised to learn that there was period of several years in the late 2000s/early 2010s when Ole Miss sorority bid day had to pushed back to October as to be after the university's withdrawal date.  Girls would literally want to drop-out/transfer after not getting into the right house.  Nothing like this happens anywhere else in the country. 

[Sol]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

Are sorority/frat kids necessarily more Conservative/Republican than their college peers? Basing off stereotypes of privilidged white kids who came from money and just came to college to party, it would make sense. The reality though is that at least these days, those people make a up a minority of frats and sororities, with many being oriented around community service and even activism traditionally associated with D-leaning politics.

Del Tachi is correct on this; Greek life at southern universities skews firmly to the right of the institutions as a whole, especially if you exclude non-traditional frats/srats which are more like the student body. The vibe is white preppy kids from rich suburbs, which even now is going to bring in a bunch of conservative kids (and the liberal kids generally don’t join Greek life to the same degree).

Athens is interesting because it’s a pretty Democratic college town in a state where Democrats do quite poorly with white voters; you could reasonably expect it to vote like Tuscaloosa or Oxford instead. I assume this is the result of the particularly robust cultural scene in the late 20th century, but it’s not like Oxford MS is lacking in cultural eminence either. I’ve also never quite understood why Athens’ zone of cultural influence stops dramatically at the county line in all directions.

[Sol]

Maybe the real question that needs to be answered by this thread is why some college town counties (lets use this identifier cause Athens consolidated local government a few decades back) are recognizable urban centers and large population hubs, and why some are just the university and not much else. Some examples of the former are Tuscaloosa AL, Clarke GA, Alachua FL, Orange NC, Charlottesville+Albemarle VA. Some examples of the second group are Athens OH, Lafayette MS, Watauga NC, and Harrisonburg VA. 

Chapel Hill doesn’t quite belong in the first category; it’s partly a large college town, but a lot of its growth and size is from essentially being a big and very desirable suburb of Durham/Raleigh/RTP.

In any case this is mostly just because colleges get placed in a variety of places, and sometimes they’re in small cities and sometimes they’re in small towns. It’s worth noting that the second group you picked actually do all have a reasonably large town attached, so I’d object to the “not much else” characterization. There actually are some colleges without much of a town attached; Western Carolina and Sewanee spring to mind. (Relating to this thread, Sewanee shockingly appears to be fairly Democratic.)

[mileslunn]

Maybe the real question that needs to be answered by this thread is why some college town counties (lets use this identifier cause Athens consolidated local government a few decades back) are recognizable urban centers and large population hubs, and why some are just the university and not much else. Some examples of the former are Tuscaloosa AL, Clarke GA, Alachua FL, Orange NC, Charlottesville+Albemarle VA. Some examples of the second group are Athens OH, Lafayette MS, Watauga NC, and Harrisonburg VA. 

Chapel Hill doesn’t quite belong in the first category; it’s partly a large college town, but a lot of its growth and size is from essentially being a big and very desirable suburb of Durham/Raleigh/RTP.

In any case this is mostly just because colleges get placed in a variety of places, and sometimes they’re in small cities and sometimes they’re in small towns. It’s worth noting that the second group you picked actually do all have a reasonably large town attached, so I’d object to the “not much else” characterization. There actually are some colleges without much of a town attached; Western Carolina and Sewanee spring to mind. (Relating to this thread, Sewanee shockingly appears to be fairly Democratic.)

College towns even if smaller places tend to be solidly Democrat nowadays, see Boone, North Carolina as another example or Gainesville, Florida.  Oxford, Mississippi is more an anomaly in that Alabama and Mississippi are extremely racially polarized due to history so GOP wins big amongst whites even in places they wouldn't elsewhere.  Georgia has strong racial polarization in rural and smaller urban that are not touristy (see Savannah), no major university (see Athens) and not part of a large metro area (Augusta example of this).  In Western US, Midwest, and rural Northeast, college towns go heavily Democrat so Athens more or less just follows that trend while places like Oxford are the anomalies.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

Are sorority/frat kids necessarily more Conservative/Republican than their college peers? Basing off stereotypes of privilidged white kids who came from money and just came to college to party, it would make sense. The reality though is that at least these days, those people make a up a minority of frats and sororities, with many being oriented around community service and even activism traditionally associated with D-leaning politics.

At UGA they are way more conservative. They serve as insular, exclusive, wealthy and largely white institutions. Most of the greek kids I knew in college were more conservative — if they were political at all. Many come from prominent families in small towns in rural GA, or from very wealthy ATL suburbs. Many hosted charity events, and actually did a lot of good, but I’m not sure either political party has a monopoly on philanthropy.

Of course, I was in college 10-15 years ago. It may be different, but back then sororities and fraternities were conservative bastions, and it was only a question of how conservative.

Yes, agree.  Greek life in the South remains very insulated and "White" in a way that really just isn't the case in other parts of the country.  The reputation of Alabama or Ole Miss* sorority rush precedes it for a reason, after all.  Fraternities in other parts of the country are diverse and progressive in a way that hasn't caught on in the SEC and quite possibly never will (save Vandy, LOL.)

*People outside the South are very surprised to learn that there was period of several years in the late 2000s/early 2010s when Ole Miss sorority bid day had to pushed back to October as to be after the university's withdrawal date.  Girls would literally want to drop-out/transfer after not getting into the right house.  Nothing like this happens anywhere else in the country. 

Even at Vandy, polls of the student body when I was there showed students in Greek life (especially men) well to the right of the campus as a whole.

[Oryxslayer]

Maybe the real question that needs to be answered by this thread is why some college town counties (lets use this identifier cause Athens consolidated local government a few decades back) are recognizable urban centers and large population hubs, and why some are just the university and not much else. Some examples of the former are Tuscaloosa AL, Clarke GA, Alachua FL, Orange NC, Charlottesville+Albemarle VA. Some examples of the second group are Athens OH, Lafayette MS, Watauga NC, and Harrisonburg VA. 

Chapel Hill doesn’t quite belong in the first category; it’s partly a large college town, but a lot of its growth and size is from essentially being a big and very desirable suburb of Durham/Raleigh/RTP.

In any case this is mostly just because colleges get placed in a variety of places, and sometimes they’re in small cities and sometimes they’re in small towns. It’s worth noting that the second group you picked actually do all have a reasonably large town attached, so I’d object to the “not much else” characterization. There actually are some colleges without much of a town attached; Western Carolina and Sewanee spring to mind. (Relating to this thread, Sewanee shockingly appears to be fairly Democratic.)

College towns even if smaller places tend to be solidly Democrat nowadays, see Boone, North Carolina as another example or Gainesville, Florida.  Oxford, Mississippi is more an anomaly in that Alabama and Mississippi are extremely racially polarized due to history so GOP wins big amongst whites even in places they wouldn't elsewhere.  Georgia has strong racial polarization in rural and smaller urban that are not touristy (see Savannah), no major university (see Athens) and not part of a large metro area (Augusta example of this).  In Western US, Midwest, and rural Northeast, college towns go heavily Democrat so Athens more or less just follows that trend while places like Oxford are the anomalies.

I was referring less to politics and more to patterns of development and urbanization. Just for example why does Athens GA have enough population and pull to have a urbanized area covering multiple counties and over 200K people, whereas Athens OH can barely be said to have suburbs in the 8 surrounding square townships. Or why are some places clearly something more than college towns now? In Athens case, this is particularly noticeable because Northeast GA had huge population loss in the 1920s (Boll Weevil), setting everything back.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

This is something that goes misunderstood about college town politics in general, I feel.  Undergrads (in as much as they even vote where they go to school) are not the base of Democratic support.  It's the townies and university staff/faculty.  This is especially appreciable at UGA, where the "conservative" undergrad culture contrasts with liberal Athens.

The Khaki Line be a thing for real.

You can see this the other way at A&M where the universties rapid exapansion has washed out  much off the conservative bend of traditonal aggies who were enrolled but the town is still pretty conservative due to the kind of people attracted there,.

[pikachu]

Maybe the real question that needs to be answered by this thread is why some college town counties (lets use this identifier cause Athens consolidated local government a few decades back) are recognizable urban centers and large population hubs, and why some are just the university and not much else. Some examples of the former are Tuscaloosa AL, Clarke GA, Alachua FL, Orange NC, Charlottesville+Albemarle VA. Some examples of the second group are Athens OH, Lafayette MS, Watauga NC, and Harrisonburg VA. 

Chapel Hill doesn’t quite belong in the first category; it’s partly a large college town, but a lot of its growth and size is from essentially being a big and very desirable suburb of Durham/Raleigh/RTP.

In any case this is mostly just because colleges get placed in a variety of places, and sometimes they’re in small cities and sometimes they’re in small towns. It’s worth noting that the second group you picked actually do all have a reasonably large town attached, so I’d object to the “not much else” characterization. There actually are some colleges without much of a town attached; Western Carolina and Sewanee spring to mind. (Relating to this thread, Sewanee shockingly appears to be fairly Democratic.)

College towns even if smaller places tend to be solidly Democrat nowadays, see Boone, North Carolina as another example or Gainesville, Florida.  Oxford, Mississippi is more an anomaly in that Alabama and Mississippi are extremely racially polarized due to history so GOP wins big amongst whites even in places they wouldn't elsewhere.  Georgia has strong racial polarization in rural and smaller urban that are not touristy (see Savannah), no major university (see Athens) and not part of a large metro area (Augusta example of this).  In Western US, Midwest, and rural Northeast, college towns go heavily Democrat so Athens more or less just follows that trend while places like Oxford are the anomalies.

I was referring less to politics and more to patterns of development and urbanization. Just for example why does Athens GA have enough population and pull to have a urbanized area covering multiple counties and over 200K people, whereas Athens OH can barely be said to have suburbs in the 8 surrounding square townships. Or why are some places clearly something more than college towns now? In Athens case, this is particularly noticeable because Northeast GA had huge population loss in the 1920s (Boll Weevil), setting everything back.

Wouldn’t this specific example just be flagship vs non-flagship schools having different effects? UGA’s a significantly bigger institution by every metric – budget, enrollment, staff size, etc. so it makes sense that it’s able to anchor a larger urban area.

[Spectator]

There’s a very large music and arts scene that strongly contributes to the culture of the city.

The southern sorority/fraternity kids who are more conservative just go to school there and move away when they graduate, only coming back for game days. The folks who stay there after graduation or the people who choose to move there tend to be the more creative types. Some call them “townies” lol

Source: I went to college there

Are sorority/frat kids necessarily more Conservative/Republican than their college peers? Basing off stereotypes of privilidged white kids who came from money and just came to college to party, it would make sense. The reality though is that at least these days, those people make a up a minority of frats and sororities, with many being oriented around community service and even activism traditionally associated with D-leaning politics.

At UGA they are way more conservative. They serve as insular, exclusive, wealthy and largely white institutions. Most of the greek kids I knew in college were more conservative — if they were political at all. Many come from prominent families in small towns in rural GA, or from very wealthy ATL suburbs. Many hosted charity events, and actually did a lot of good, but I’m not sure either political party has a monopoly on philanthropy.

Of course, I was in college 10-15 years ago. It may be different, but back then sororities and fraternities were conservative bastions, and it was only a question of how conservative.

Yes, agree.  Greek life in the South remains very insulated and "White" in a way that really just isn't the case in other parts of the country.  The reputation of Alabama or Ole Miss* sorority rush precedes it for a reason, after all.  Fraternities in other parts of the country are diverse and progressive in a way that hasn't caught on in the SEC and quite possibly never will (save Vandy, LOL.)

*People outside the South are very surprised to learn that there was period of several years in the late 2000s/early 2010s when Ole Miss sorority bid day had to pushed back to October as to be after the university's withdrawal date.  Girls would literally want to drop-out/transfer after not getting into the right house.  Nothing like this happens anywhere else in the country.  

Southern Greek life is insane. Source: I’m an alum. I do think Greek Life, particularly at UGA specifically, has gotten more liberal/Dem-friendly over the Trump era, which is probably to be expected given the resulting Dem increase in performance with college-educated whites.

My girlfriend is doing her PHD at UGA now, and i co-sign  everything you said about the townies. I’d also add a big part of UGA’s liberalism compared to other southern state schools is that UGA is borderline a public Ivy at this point. It’s an incredibly selective school compared to most state schools in the south, really only topped by UVA and UT. The student body is naturally going to be a lot more liberal as a result.