Is Kentucky a Southern state

[Republican Party Stalwart]

Yes, my typical definition of the South which I've used in comparing and contrasting American regions is "the eleven Confederate states plus Kentucky".

I would throw in Oklahoma too.

Southeastern Oklahoma ("Little Dixie"/former Indian Territory), at least.

[Republican Party Stalwart]

As a native of California who moved to and lived in Lexington (by far the most cosmopolitan and "socially liberal" part of the state, which is worth noting considering how many people - both on this forum and outside of it - erroneously consider "rural" and "conservative" to be prerequisites for "Southern-ness") for nearly eleven years, the answer is undoubtedly "yes."

No one who's actually been here would ever ask this question lol. The accents alone give it away.

[Republican Party Stalwart]

There are some Midwestern influences in the counties south of Cincinnati and Louisville has a hybrid vibe, but the rest of the state is unequivocally the South.

Despite its socioeconomic ties to the "Great Lakes megalopolis," Louisville is clearly Southern. It definitely has a "border" or "North/Midwest-adjacent" vibe (hence the city's "Gateway to the South" moniker), but the city nonetheless is an area that fully crosses the Rubicon of "being in the South" rather than being some "hybrid" stretching across a border. The Louisville accent is often described as a 'perpetually "sarcastic"-sounding version' of the general/standard Southern accent.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No one who's actually been here would ever ask this question lol. The accents alone give it away.

What?

Doesn't sound Southern at all.

[ProgressiveModerate]

I would say a key sign of if a state is truly in the South is on how rural 99%+ white precincts vote.

In states like LA, MS, AL, GA, there are many very white precincts giving Trump over 90%+ of the vote.

In KY, you only have a small handful; in many rural white working class KY precincts Biden is winning a good 20% of the vote or so which is not characteristic of the South.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I voted no because the music doesn't sound Southern at all.

Knocked Loose or Breather Resist Southern hardcore bands? Elliott a Southern emo band?

LOL.

[Republican Party Stalwart]

No one who's actually been here would ever ask this question lol. The accents alone give it away.

What?

Doesn't sound Southern at all.

You must have an extremely narrow definition of "southern accent," or a very poor ear for discerning the subtleties that give away one's accent beyond ostentatiously stereotypical features. It's very easy for me to notice the "Southern" qualities to these guys' speech; it's in the vowels and the cadence.

[Republican Party Stalwart]

I would say a key sign of if a state is truly in the South is on how rural 99%+ white precincts vote.

In states like LA, MS, AL, GA, there are many very white precincts giving Trump over 90%+ of the vote.

In KY, you only have a small handful; in many rural white working class KY precincts Biden is winning a good 20% of the vote or so which is not characteristic of the South.

This ultimately just reveals the stupidity of using partisan politics as the primary method of gauging whether or not a place is culturally "Southern."

That said, this if anything is a matter of "Deep Southern vs Border State" cultural differences, rather than "Southern vs non-Southern." There are multiple rural white working-class precincts in Arkansas where Hillary and Biden won over 10 or 20% of the vote; and no one is dumb enough to say that Arkansas is "non-Southern" based on that fact.

[ProgressiveModerate]

I would say a key sign of if a state is truly in the South is on how rural 99%+ white precincts vote.

In states like LA, MS, AL, GA, there are many very white precincts giving Trump over 90%+ of the vote.

In KY, you only have a small handful; in many rural white working class KY precincts Biden is winning a good 20% of the vote or so which is not characteristic of the South.

This ultimately just reveals the stupidity of using partisan politics as the primary method of gauging whether or not a place is culturally "Southern."

That said, this if anything is a matter of "Deep Southern vs Border State" cultural differences, rather than "Southern vs non-Southern." There are multiple rural white working-class precincts in Arkansas where Hillary and Biden won over 10 or 20% of the vote; and no one is dumb enough to say that Arkansas is "non-Southern" based on that fact.

The point is to look at the *average* 90%+ rural white precinct in the states.

In states like AL, LA, MS, GA, there are 90% white precincts that gave Trump below 90% of the vote, but usually there's a clear reason (i.e. precincts containing or near a college, retirement community along the coast, specific industry ect).

However, in KY most 90%+ rural white precincts of low college attainment gave Trump below 90% of the vote; only a small handful of exceptions in southeast KY.

[Republican Party Stalwart]

... in KY most 90%+ rural white precincts of low college attainment gave Trump below 90% of the vote; only a small handful of exceptions in southeast KY.

Yes, and it's no coincidence that the region of Southeastern and South-central Kentucky supported the Union during the Civil War and has consistently voted Republican and been the most Republican-leaning part of the state in every election to date. What you are referring to is evidence for the fact that Kentucky is a Southern state, not evidence against it. The fact is, Kentucky has a comparably small black population relative to the eleven former Confederate States, even including Arkansas, and so ancestral Democrat WWC voters in Kentucky were and are inevitably just less reflexively anti-Black than ancestral Democrat WWC voters in the former CSA. (The exception to this rule is the far-western Jackson Purchase region of Kentucky, which has a Black population closer to former CSA proportions; incidentally, the Jackson purchase and surrounds was the only part of the state to experience a non-negligible GOP swing trend in all three of the gubernatorial elections held in the state between 2010 and 2020.)

The only historically non-Unionist part of the former Confederacy with a Black population as low as Kentucky is West Texas, but I would say West Texas ought to be considered a special case because 1) most ancestral Democrat WWCs in West Texas are the descendants of settlers from East Texas or other non-Unionist regions of the former Confederacy with proportionally above-Kentucky Black populations, 2) the WWC precincts in West Texas are more sparsely populated and "purely" rural, with greater geographic distance from centers of population or industry, than those in KY, 3) the mass-agriculture-based local economy of West Texas was and is less of a beneficiary of New Deal Social Liberal programs, making it comparable socioeconomically to Western Kansas, Western Nebraska, Northeastern Wyoming, and other non-Southern areas with WWC populations who vote overwhelmingly GOP to the same extent as WWC rural deep south precincts, and 4) Texas is located on the Mexican Border and is a state with large Black and Hispanic populations overall, meaning that racial and immigration issues are indeed going to be more front-of-mind for rural WWC West Texas voters than they will be for non-Jackson Purchase rural WWC Kentucky voters.

[Schiff for Senate]

Yes and No, it's a border state and always has been.

Politically during the Civil War, sure.
But culturally and economically, definitely more southern. Better examples of border states in that regard would be MO, which is in some areas quite similar to the Midwest, and MD/DE (DE imo is a northeastern state).

[Republican Party Stalwart]

Yes and No, it's a border state and always has been.

Politically during the Civil War, sure.
But culturally and economically, definitely more southern. Better examples of border states in that regard would be MO, which is in some areas quite similar to the Midwest, and MD/DE (DE imo is a northeastern state).

I'm veering off topic, but regarding the opinion expressed in the boldfaced text, one point in favor thereof would be the fact that during the British colonial era, Delaware was actually not an independent colony, but part of the colony of Pennsylvania. Delaware pre-Articles of Confederation was and is colloquially referred to and viewed as a "separate colony" (as in "Thirteen Colonies," and hence why it was a separate state than PA under both the Articles of Confederation and the current Constitution), and it may have had some de jure or de facto special administrative status IIRC, but technically it was part of Pennsylvania, which strengthens the case for it to be considered a Northern rather than a Southern State.

Furthermore, Delaware was also the only Antebellum Slave State in which Abraham Lincoln received over 20 percent of the vote in 1860 (and along with Missouri, one of only two Antebellum Slave States in which Lincoln received over 10 percent of the vote). Delaware during the Civil War was not considered to be a strategic weak point for the Union like Maryland was, nor was Delaware ever a battleground where Federal and Confederate forces battled for control like Kentucky, Missouri, Greater-Virginia, Tennessee, Oklahoma/Indian territory, and the Arizona and New Mexico territories were. Furthermore, although there were some Delaware companies that fought for the CSA, the Delaware companies fought under Maryland and Virginia regiments; Delaware was the only Antebellum Slave State of the USA from which no full regiment was ever recruited by the CSA.

Also, over 90 percent of Delaware's black population was free in 1860, according to at least one source.

[LabourJersey]

Yes, my typical definition of the South which I've used in comparing and contrasting American regions is "the eleven Confederate states plus Kentucky".

I would throw in Oklahoma too.

Agreed. Oklahoma goes where Texas goes.

Plus West Virginia, if only because it fits much better in the South than in the Midwest or Northeast, and is thus at least “plurality Southern,” or something like that.

West Virginia is Appalachian, but if we had to place it in the one of the Four Regions (Northeast, South, MidWest, West), than I would have to place it as Southern.

Kentucky has Appalachian elements, and some Midwestern elements too, but among the Four Regions then it's certainly the South.

[Republican Party Stalwart]

I voted no because the music doesn't sound Southern at all.

Knocked Loose or Breather Resist Southern hardcore bands? Elliott a Southern emo band?

LOL.

Black Stone Cherry can pretty comfortably be called a Southern metal band.

And of course, there's also the entire genre of Bluegrass Music. In addition to the obviously Southern characteristics of the music itself, note that the Bluegrass region of Central Kentucky, for which the genre of music is named, actually leaned pro-Confederacy politically during the Civil War relative to the pro-Union Pennyroyal Plateau and Appalachian south-central and southeastern parts of the state, all of which are geographically south of the Bluegrass.

In regards to "Southern" entertainment media other than music, "The Walking Dead" comic book series - which is known for its archetypically and undisputedly "Southern" settings, atmosphere, and cast of main characters - partially takes place in, begins the plot in, and writes its main protagonists (Rick Grimes and his son, Carl) as being from Cynthiana, Harrison County, Kentucky. Cynthiana, which is located at a geographically quite northern point in the region and in the state, is the lifelong and current hometown of series creator and primary author, Robert Kirkman, whose birthplace is in nearby Lexington/Fayette County, KY.

[EastwoodS]

There are some Midwestern influences in the counties south of Cincinnati and Louisville has a hybrid vibe, but the rest of the state is unequivocally the South.

The Northeast end of Louisville feels very midwestern, the west and south end of Louisville feels like a southern city.
Lexington has an upper-class polite southern "feel" similar to that of cities like Charleston SC.
Northern Kentucky Honestly doesn't feel "southern" at all sorry; Anything above Georgetown Kentucky ain't southern.

[EastwoodS]

I voted no because the music doesn't sound Southern at all.

Knocked Loose or Breather Resist Southern hardcore bands? Elliott a Southern emo band?

LOL.

Loretta Lynn? hello??

[mjba257]

Kentuckian here - for the most part, yes. Geographically it's a border state, but culturally is aligned strongly with the south. Northern KY and Louisville have a more midwestern vibe, but the rest of the state, save Lexington, is southern in nature.

I personally am of the belief a state can be in more than one region because some states are quite large and diverse. For instance, Upstate NY and Western PA have far more in common with the Industrial Midwest than the Northeast. Western TX has more in common with AZ and NM than the South. Northern California can easily be considered part of the Pacific Northwest. Kentucky is in a similar boat, bordering between North and South.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I voted no because the music doesn't sound Southern at all.

Knocked Loose or Breather Resist Southern hardcore bands? Elliott a Southern emo band?

LOL.

Loretta Lynn? hello??

Who?

[Sol]

I voted no because the music doesn't sound Southern at all.

Knocked Loose or Breather Resist Southern hardcore bands? Elliott a Southern emo band?

LOL.

Loretta Lynn? hello??

Who?

gurl

[Republican Party Stalwart]

Kentuckian here - for the most part, yes. Geographically it's a border state, but culturally is aligned strongly with the south. Northern KY and Louisville have a more midwestern vibe, but the rest of the state, save Lexington, is southern in nature.

I personally am of the belief a state can be in more than one region because some states are quite large and diverse. For instance, Upstate NY and Western PA have far more in common with the Industrial Midwest than the Northeast. Western TX has more in common with AZ and NM than the South. Northern California can easily be considered part of the Pacific Northwest. Kentucky is in a similar boat, bordering between North and South.

Lexington is pretty clearly culturally southern too. Its "Southern" feel has admittedly become somewhat reduced because of the large number of out-of-state transplants (of which I was one for over ten years) as well as the overall erosion of regional differences between the culture of upper/upper-middle-class college-educated cosmopolitan communities throughout the USA. However, the same thing can be said of every other cosmopolitan college town in the South; Lexington is no more or less culturally southern than Asheville or Gainesville (at least not to any extent greater than that by which the Bluegrass region as a whole is more or less culturally southern than Western NC or North Florida).

[mjba257]

Kentuckian here - for the most part, yes. Geographically it's a border state, but culturally is aligned strongly with the south. Northern KY and Louisville have a more midwestern vibe, but the rest of the state, save Lexington, is southern in nature.

I personally am of the belief a state can be in more than one region because some states are quite large and diverse. For instance, Upstate NY and Western PA have far more in common with the Industrial Midwest than the Northeast. Western TX has more in common with AZ and NM than the South. Northern California can easily be considered part of the Pacific Northwest. Kentucky is in a similar boat, bordering between North and South.

Lexington is pretty clearly culturally southern too. Its "Southern" feel has admittedly become somewhat reduced because of the large number of out-of-state transplants (of which I was one for over ten years) as well as the overall erosion of regional differences between the culture of upper/upper-middle-class college-educated cosmopolitan communities throughout the USA. However, the same thing can be said of every other cosmopolitan college town in the South; Lexington is no more or less culturally southern than Asheville or Gainesville (at least not to any extent greater than that by which the Bluegrass region as a whole is more or less culturally southern than Western NC or North Florida).

I am from Lexington I can tell you from the ground, the city is becoming almost a mini-version of Austin. The tech industry here is growing, a lot of young professionals are moving in, downtown has become infested with the hipster type and gentrified housing is popping up everywhere. Fayette County is the bluest county in the state, even moreso than Jefferson, thanks in part to the influx of white liberals.

[Republican Party Stalwart]

Kentuckian here - for the most part, yes. Geographically it's a border state, but culturally is aligned strongly with the south. Northern KY and Louisville have a more midwestern vibe, but the rest of the state, save Lexington, is southern in nature.

I personally am of the belief a state can be in more than one region because some states are quite large and diverse. For instance, Upstate NY and Western PA have far more in common with the Industrial Midwest than the Northeast. Western TX has more in common with AZ and NM than the South. Northern California can easily be considered part of the Pacific Northwest. Kentucky is in a similar boat, bordering between North and South.

Lexington is pretty clearly culturally southern too. Its "Southern" feel has admittedly become somewhat reduced because of the large number of out-of-state transplants (of which I was one for over ten years) as well as the overall erosion of regional differences between the culture of upper/upper-middle-class college-educated cosmopolitan communities throughout the USA. However, the same thing can be said of every other cosmopolitan college town in the South; Lexington is no more or less culturally southern than Asheville or Gainesville (at least not to any extent greater than that by which the Bluegrass region as a whole is more or less culturally southern than Western NC or North Florida).

I am from Lexington I can tell you from the ground, the city is becoming almost a mini-version of Austin. The tech industry here is growing, a lot of young professionals are moving in, downtown has become infested with the hipster type and gentrified housing is popping up everywhere. Fayette County is the bluest county in the state, even moreso than Jefferson, thanks in part to the influx of white liberals.

Yeah. 2020 was actually the first time since 1948 that Fayette leaned D by margin of victory (and by overall vote percentage for both the GOP and the Dems IIRC) relative to Jefferson in a POTUS election.

[Gass3268]

Yes, my typical definition of the South which I've used in comparing and contrasting American regions is "the eleven Confederate states plus Kentucky".

I would throw in Oklahoma too.

Agreed. Oklahoma goes where Texas goes.

Plus West Virginia, if only because it fits much better in the South than in the Midwest or Northeast, and is thus at least “plurality Southern,” or something like that.

West Virginia is Appalachian, but if we had to place it in the one of the Four Regions (Northeast, South, MidWest, West), than I would have to place it as Southern.

That said Northern West Virginia is more like Western PA.

[LabourJersey]

Yes, my typical definition of the South which I've used in comparing and contrasting American regions is "the eleven Confederate states plus Kentucky".

I would throw in Oklahoma too.

Agreed. Oklahoma goes where Texas goes.

Plus West Virginia, if only because it fits much better in the South than in the Midwest or Northeast, and is thus at least “plurality Southern,” or something like that.

West Virginia is Appalachian, but if we had to place it in the one of the Four Regions (Northeast, South, MidWest, West), than I would have to place it as Southern.

That said Northern West Virginia is more like Western PA.

That is true. Western PA would be definitely be a part of Appalachia if we allowed that to count as a full region.

[Republican Party Stalwart]

Yes, my typical definition of the South which I've used in comparing and contrasting American regions is "the eleven Confederate states plus Kentucky".

I would throw in Oklahoma too.

Agreed. Oklahoma goes where Texas goes.

Plus West Virginia, if only because it fits much better in the South than in the Midwest or Northeast, and is thus at least “plurality Southern,” or something like that.

West Virginia is Appalachian, but if we had to place it in the one of the Four Regions (Northeast, South, MidWest, West), than I would have to place it as Southern.

That said Northern West Virginia is more like Western PA.

Southwestern PA (plus Jefferson County, Belmont County, and Monroe County in OH), to be specific.