I've canceled my Catholic conversion

[Alben Barkley]

I simply can't in good conscience say the things they want me to say because I simply don't believe them.

Abortion in particular is a sticking point, an irreconcilable one frankly. I tried my best to stick my fingers in my ears and turn off my brain and practice my best cognitive dissonance, but ultimately it just isn't gonna work out. It's unsurprising to me that a slight majority of Catholics when polled say they are pro-choice, but frankly we all know this is because a lot of Catholics are cafeteria Catholics or essentially non-practicing Catholics. It's one thing to be raised Catholic and end up that way, but what is the point of CONVERTING to that if my heart's not in it and I don't really believe it?

Also I've become disillusioned with the Pope as he's called for a Hamas-friendly ceasefire and refuses to condemn Putin/Russia directly by name.

I have no desire to go back to being a Protestant either, frankly; I wouldn't even know where to begin when looking at the trillion denominations they have. Part of my attraction to Catholicism was it cut all that confusion out and was supposed to be the "one" church.

I guess I'll just go back to being what feels most natural for myself: More or less a Christian Deist like many of the Founding Fathers, someone who believes in the values and teachings of Christ for the most part, but is simply unconvinced of the divinity/supernatural elements of the story and furthermore just doesn't buy that you can get all the wisdom in the world from a 2000+ year old book/church or that any one religion could possibly have all the answers. I certainly believe in a higher power, so I am not an atheist, but I think it's almost arrogant for anyone to claim they could even begin to know who or what that higher power is and what it's like. To me the most likely explanation is there's something out there still beyond our comprehension that set the events of the universe in motion, but doesn't actively interfere with the laws of nature that being set up. It's like one enormous domino chain that was set off 4 billion years ago.

But I can't claim to be certain of even that, so I'm an agnostic as well, because all that word means is I literally don't know. My BELIEF is in an essentially deistic world, but I don't KNOW. And again, it seems arrogant to me that anyone would CLAIM to know. I don't blame anyone for wanting faith; hell, I WANT desperately to believe myself. But again, I just can't, and I can't profess to in good conscience. It would be a betrayal of myself and a deception of others. It is what it is.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I'm sorry to hear, but in case it makes any difference, I know I'm one of many here who belong to and think highly of the historic "Seven Sisters of Mainline Protestantism," and so I would absolutely encourage checking a few of them out. But finding a right church is a long and strenuous journey for many. I was never a churchgoer until after I graduated high school, and during college I became enthralled with the Episcopal Church's fusion of traditional worship style with some values that you and I might cherish.

No two churches are alike; I have spoken many times about my deeply unfulfilling experience with an e-church during COVID that preached using stories from Harry Potter - which even many Christian fans of Harry Potter, I suspect, wouldn't see to justify waking up Sundays at 7 AM to listen to what amounts to a contrived TED Talk. I contrast that with the church I belong to now, which doesn't stray from the Message for the sake of being all things to all people. That is a common problem.

But the problem with these churches, also, is that they are declining. The vast majority of practicing American Christians are either Catholic or evangelical/nondenominational. They are what define Christianity for most laypeople now. Even still, these churches are considered historic because, in addition to the institutions they helped establish, they were also the churches of many Founding Fathers.

Should you ever find yourself willing to re-explore this avenue, you can't go wrong with the Episcopal or Lutheran churches, if you appreciate the Eucharist. And even if the church is "wrong," you're still opening yourself to a community and opportunities which are meaningful.

For now, I can only pray that you reconsider and find peace in your journey. Best of luck to you.

[afleitch]

Personally I think you miss out on character building teenage Catholic guilt by converting as an adult

But joking aside, you should always do what's right for you. I really don't understand opting in to a faith that you don't believe in, or worse, affects your relationships with people and the issues that affect people you care about who suddenly become an 'out group' because of the institutional beliefs of a newly found religion or church. And I say that as someone who doesn't agree with you on some of those views.

Though I agree with your stance on abortion. Pro-choicers have a right to be absolute moralists about this too and for me a right to choose is a moral, and 'emotional' red line.

Catholicism is contrary and complex. Which personally, I don't think imbues it with some underlying 'truth woo'. Sometimes a duck is a duck. But there are other options, including non Christian ones, of faith and spirituality is personally important to you.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

But joking aside, you should always do what's right for you. I really don't understand opting in to a faith that you don't believe in, or worse, affects your relationships with people and the issues that affect people you care about who suddenly become an 'out group' because of the institutional beliefs of a newly found religion or church. And I say that as someone who doesn't agree with you on some of those views.

I was typing a response to this when I was sent a link to the following article, which is strangely fitting in terms of describing a conversion to Christianity that sounds instrumental and not based in true belief or conviction (moreover, I'm sure you of all people will have a lot of opinions about someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali). https://unherd.com/2023/11/why-i-am-now-a-christian/

Apologies for making a post that's tangential at best. I found that too much of an interesting coincidence not to share. I have complex and deeply personal thoughts about "opting in to a faith that affects your relationships with people you care about" because that describes at least a crucial moment in my life and arguably all the years since, and I may still say something on the matter, although I am less keen on 'opening up' on the forum than three years ago.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Tragic, but I guess I do appreciate the intellectual honesty on your part. It never made sense to me why someone would convert to a religion they don't fully believe in, and when I became Orthodox it was with the conviction that I did not know better than the Church on certain topics (abortion being among these). If you are not able to make that leap, the cognitive dissonance of professing something different from the body which you are confessing to be the divinely-revealed Church of God seems like it would be horrible. I will pray for you as you continue your spiritual journey.

[Devout Centrist]

Unfortunate, very unfortunate. As a lifelong Catholic who is both pro-life and pro-Hamas, I am disappointed we won't be able to share a faith together. Following the Vatican's guidance on all matters is essential to being a practicing Catholic.

[Saint Milei]

Political religion for the win

[jojoju1998]

I simply can't in good conscience say the things they want me to say because I simply don't believe them.

Abortion in particular is a sticking point, an irreconcilable one frankly. I tried my best to stick my fingers in my ears and turn off my brain and practice my best cognitive dissonance, but ultimately it just isn't gonna work out. It's unsurprising to me that a slight majority of Catholics when polled say they are pro-choice, but frankly we all know this is because a lot of Catholics are cafeteria Catholics or essentially non-practicing Catholics. It's one thing to be raised Catholic and end up that way, but what is the point of CONVERTING to that if my heart's not in it and I don't really believe it?

Also I've become disillusioned with the Pope as he's called for a Hamas-friendly ceasefire and refuses to condemn Putin/Russia directly by name.

I have no desire to go back to being a Protestant either, frankly; I wouldn't even know where to begin when looking at the trillion denominations they have. Part of my attraction to Catholicism was it cut all that confusion out and was supposed to be the "one" church.

I guess I'll just go back to being what feels most natural for myself: More or less a Christian Deist like many of the Founding Fathers, someone who believes in the values and teachings of Christ for the most part, but is simply unconvinced of the divinity/supernatural elements of the story and furthermore just doesn't buy that you can get all the wisdom in the world from a 2000+ year old book/church or that any one religion could possibly have all the answers. I certainly believe in a higher power, so I am not an atheist, but I think it's almost arrogant for anyone to claim they could even begin to know who or what that higher power is and what it's like. To me the most likely explanation is there's something out there still beyond our comprehension that set the events of the universe in motion, but doesn't actively interfere with the laws of nature that being set up. It's like one enormous domino chain that was set off 4 billion years ago.

But I can't claim to be certain of even that, so I'm an agnostic as well, because all that word means is I literally don't know. My BELIEF is in an essentially deistic world, but I don't KNOW. And again, it seems arrogant to me that anyone would CLAIM to know. I don't blame anyone for wanting faith; hell, I WANT desperately to believe myself. But again, I just can't, and I can't profess to in good conscience. It would be a betrayal of myself and a deception of others. It is what it is.

The Pope does not speak ex cathedra on political matters.

[RINO Tom]

The talking point that there are all of these countless Protestant denominations is so stupid and tired.  Historic/classical Protestants are 90% in the following buckets:

Lutheran
Anglican
Reformed (Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Continental Reformed, etc.)
Methodist
Baptist

Of course you have groups that existed before the Reformation (Moravians), groups that were part of the Radical Reformation (Anabaptists) and groups that came out WAY more modern movements and sometimes don't even self-identify as Protestant (Restorationists, Pentecostals, etc.).  Non-Denominational Christians, to the extent they aren't just contrarian Baptists, are "not a denomination" ... what are you going to do, count every single church?  I also don't think someone thinking about converting to Catholicism would consider any of them anyway, so why again does the fact they exist confound your selection process??  Lol.

If you don't want to be a Protestant, just say you don't want to be one.  However, it is totally disingenuous to act like there are countless different Protestant denominations that believe totally different things.  There are a handful of traditions, and because we all believe that Scripture is a higher authority than any human being (e.g., the Pope in Rome), it logically follows that it is natural and fine for different groups to have different interpretations.

[John Dule]

Good to hear, Alben. You're much too smart for this garbage.

[vitoNova]

Next week, you'll be back to worshipping the Holy Babble. 

Source:  I've seen it ALL before-- a million times over-- honeycakes.

[Aurelius2]

Would not be surprised if you end up some sort of high church/Anglo-Catholic Episcopalian eventually.

[Kleine Scheiße]

Ever considered Anabaptism?