"The Marvels" on pace to be the MCU's first massive bomb

[Landslide Lyndon]

To the actual point of this thread, people have brought up the issue of studios deciding to go all in on streaming (an example of the bizarre sort of decision-making that corporations were indulging in three years ago that would only make sense if they were of the belief that covid would last forever), but I would think that another factor would be the Chinese market. The reason that effects-heavy movies were everywhere in the 2010s was because the movie industry was looking to sell tickets in China, where culturally specific American stories play a lot worse than big explosions. Now the CCP doesn't want so many foreign movies and so a specific style of movie that was designed to play in China is a lot less lucrative.

That's exactly what I wrote a few months ago about the Hollywood studios trying to lower the language barrier in order to appeal to the lucrative east-Asian market.
But the streaming services aren't going anywhere, especially now that they are starting to become profitable. Cinemas won't go anywhere either but they will show almost exclusively event movies which will attract mainly younger audiences. The older moviegoers will prefer to watch the latest dramas and comedies at the comfort of their homes, without any i-phone wielding, rambunctious teenagers spoiling their experience.

[GoTfan]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Speaking too late, arguably. As BRTD noted, every project since Endgame has been inextricably linked with the litany of Marvel made streaming shows; especially for the big crossover stuff now you need to follow like 4-5 seasons of televisions per year, plus four films each year. Pre-endgame it was two, sometimes three movies a year and that was it, and you could skip a lot of those. Even to watch this movie (which is not one of the big Avengers crossovers) now requires (probably) having watched the Captain Marvel film five years back, then to have watched the recent TV shows. It’s a fairly heavy prerequisite filing.

Sure, any proclamation of “death” is probably premature given Disney has unlimited money to try to keep it alive, but it’s certainly been set on the path to irrelevance for the past three to four years and the only thing that would change that would be a substantial rethinking of the business model they’ve invested into for the rest of this decade.

I don't believe so, at least not yet. Deadpool will do quite well next year on the name alone, as well as having Hugh Jackman back in Wolverine. I think with a bit of course-correction, it won't be the box office killer it once was, but it will still be around and make decent money.

[John Dule]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[Landslide Lyndon]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Scorsese's latest movie bombed. So I guess that means there is Scorsese fatigue and nobody wants to see his movies anymore.

/S

[GoTfan]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Scorsese's latest movie bombed. So I guess that means there is Scorsese fatigue and nobody wants to see his movies anymore.

/S

In fairness, KOTFM is a very, very good film, albeit one of his weaker ones. We should also bear in mind that it was primarily an Apple+ film; the cinema release was basically an afterthought from what I understand.

[Landslide Lyndon]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Scorsese's latest movie bombed. So I guess that means there is Scorsese fatigue and nobody wants to see his movies anymore.

/S

In fairness, KOTFM is a very, very good film, albeit one of his weaker ones. We should also bear in mind that it was primarily an Apple+ film; the cinema release was basically an afterthought from what I understand.

I don't know man. According to what I'm reading here the box office can't be wrong.

[GoTfan]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Scorsese's latest movie bombed. So I guess that means there is Scorsese fatigue and nobody wants to see his movies anymore.

/S

In fairness, KOTFM is a very, very good film, albeit one of his weaker ones. We should also bear in mind that it was primarily an Apple+ film; the cinema release was basically an afterthought from what I understand.

I don't know man. According to what I'm reading here the box office can't be wrong.

Look mate, it's pretty obvious you and I are Marvel fans. Sticking our heads in the sand and acting like this isn't a failure financially is not going to help anyone. yes, there are several contributing factors such as streaming sticking around pretty firmly and the strike preventing major promotion-this film was trading on the chemistry of its three leads and them being unable to promote the film did do a lot of harm, I think-but at the end of the day, even I have to admit that a lot of what they're putting on now is just shovelware.

Trading on their brand alone is not going to help them anymore because a lot of people saw Endgame as the jumping off point, which was fair enough. Loki and No Way Home have proven the point that if you make good enough films, people will come. I will admit, part of me is still not entirely convinced that a decent chunk of NWH's box office was because of women in their late teens and mid twenties losing it over Tom Holland-which is fair enough-but my point stands.

Deadpool 3 will do pretty well by virtue of simply being a rated-R Deadpool film with Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman. The next Captain America film won't do well, considering they're basically reshooting most of the film which will balloon the budget. Thunderbolts could do well under the right circumstances, but needs to be marketed right; ideally it's a similar political thriller-style film like Winter Soldier was. Blade could do reasonably well if they don't shovel a quarter of a billion dollars into it.

The inevitable Shang-Chi sequel will do reasonably well too, but again, that depends on how much budget they load it with. Fantastic Four is the same, especially with the rumoured signing of Pedro Pascal. Then we still have the next Spider-Man film to come, which will draw in a sizable audience based on it being a Spider-Man film led by Tom Holland.

We can't just stick our heads in the sand and pretend Marvel does not have issues, because it's pretty plain to see that it does at this point. Hopefully this will serve as a wake-up call, and judging by the fact Iger has already issued orders for budgets to be pulled back, I think they heard it loud and clear. We can't just keep getting the same fun two hour film with a forgettable villain and lazy special effects, because that WILL be what kills this franchise.

Whether or not it's too late for a course-correction remains open for debate. I personally don't think it is, but I can see why people think it is. At the end of the day, hopefully Marvel hears this loud and clear and does so immediately. People are voting with their wallet, and they're not going to give Marvel a pass because it's Marvel anymore; they're not the 'must-see' films they were a few years ago.

It's one hell of an embolism that's for sure, but I think it's one they can overcome. Whether or not my faith will be repaid is open at this point; I absolutely despise what they did with Quantumania

[Alben Barkley]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm getting married next year. 😂😂😂😂

These NPC clowns are so predictable it's not even funny anymore. "Don't like my capes--t? You must be [insert politically charged, terminally online insult here]. It couldn't possibly be that you just have actual taste and are sick to death of played out, overdone, boring, lazy, pandering, soulless, cookie cuter, formulaic, directionless, garbage, corporate movies and want to see something new and original!"

Again, I want to emphasize this point: I LIKED the Barbie movie! Putting me on the same level as Ben Shapiro or something, as some "incel" who just hates all things "woke" or something, is demonstrably, laughably false. But he literally can't handle the truth apparently, LMFAO.

[John Dule]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm getting married next year. 😂😂😂😂

These NPC clowns are so predictable it's not even funny anymore. "Don't like my capes--t? You must be [insert politically charged, terminally online insult here]. It couldn't possibly be that you just have actual taste and are sick to death of played out, overdone, boring, lazy, pandering, soulless, cookie cuter, formulaic, directionless, garbage, corporate movies and want to see something new and original!"

Again, I want to emphasize this point: I LIKED the Barbie movie! Putting me on the same level as Ben Shapiro or something, as some "incel" who just hates all things "woke" or something, is demonstrably, laughably false. But he literally can't handle the truth apparently, LMFAO.

Imagine traveling back to the 80s and telling people that in the future, nerds will try to say that people who DON'T like comic books are the ones who don't have sex.

[GoTfan]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm getting married next year. 😂😂😂😂

These NPC clowns are so predictable it's not even funny anymore. "Don't like my capes--t? You must be [insert politically charged, terminally online insult here]. It couldn't possibly be that you just have actual taste and are sick to death of played out, overdone, boring, lazy, pandering, soulless, cookie cuter, formulaic, directionless, garbage, corporate movies and want to see something new and original!"

Again, I want to emphasize this point: I LIKED the Barbie movie! Putting me on the same level as Ben Shapiro or something, as some "incel" who just hates all things "woke" or something, is demonstrably, laughably false. But he literally can't handle the truth apparently, LMFAO.

Imagine traveling back to the 80s and telling people that in the future, nerds will try to say that people who DON'T like comic books are the ones who don't have sex.

I just don't get angry when people like something I don't or vice versa. Life's too short.

[Alben Barkley]

In any case, I think the only thing that could actually get me back into theaters for a comic book movie again is my Raimi Spider-Man 4 idea.

I remember walking out of Logan back in 2015 and thinking that was a fitting end to the superhero genre, and that I was pretty much exhausted and done with the rest already.

I didn't see another superhero movie again in theaters for 4 years. I skipped even Infinity War until it came out on streaming and the hype and internet memes made it all but unavoidable. It was good enough and had a solid enough cliffhanger that I did indeed buy into the Endgame hype and see it opening weekend. But after THAT, I thought I was DEFINITELY done.

Then the bastards went and got Tobey Maguire back for No Way Home. They found my "kryptonite" (no pun intended) and that was enough to get me back for old time's sake. It still is the only way to get me back, simply due to the insane love and nostalgia I still have for those Raimi movies. Because they had heart and soul, unlike almost all their successors.

I tried watching The Batman on streaming, and despite at one time liking Batman, couldn't even finish it. It just seemed too grimdark and edgy and stupid, turning Batman into a straight-up emo who listens to "Something in the Way" all the time. Batman needs a little camp again, frankly. Doesn't have to be Batman and Robin again, but inferior Dark Knight ripoffs are gonna get real stale real fast. So unless that changes, I won't even be back for another Batman movie.

Literally the only thing that is guaranteed to bring me back is exactly what I said earlier in the thread: Give Sam Raimi complete creative control and bring back Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst. I'll be there opening night, and I suspect the nostalgia factor could make it 2 billion dollars. Anything else? I'll wait for streaming and most likely not even watch it even then. (Lol at Landslide Lyndon thinking "Loki Season 2" is some kind of checkmate on us "incels," as if I even have watched any of Marvel's streaming crap.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The only MCU movies I've seen since Covid are Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (as part of a drive-in double feature as part of a group outing), and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (with my brother, who only really wanted to see it because Sam Raimi directed it, Bruce Campbell has a cameo and he's an Evil Dead superfan.) They were both alright but didn't really reignite my interest in the MCU. Dr. Strange was really a large wasted opportunity, an actual multiverse movie would be really cool but they only spend a notable amount of time in one alternate universe, which is basically just NYC except with more flowers and pizza is ball-shaped. Not very interesting.

EDIT: Actually wait, I also saw Black Widow, it was a cheap matinee showing at a good theater and I was bored type situation. Not a bad movie by any means, but just kind of generic and passable for the most part.

I saw and enjoyed The Batman though.

[John Dule]

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm getting married next year. 😂😂😂😂

These NPC clowns are so predictable it's not even funny anymore. "Don't like my capes--t? You must be [insert politically charged, terminally online insult here]. It couldn't possibly be that you just have actual taste and are sick to death of played out, overdone, boring, lazy, pandering, soulless, cookie cuter, formulaic, directionless, garbage, corporate movies and want to see something new and original!"

Again, I want to emphasize this point: I LIKED the Barbie movie! Putting me on the same level as Ben Shapiro or something, as some "incel" who just hates all things "woke" or something, is demonstrably, laughably false. But he literally can't handle the truth apparently, LMFAO.

Imagine traveling back to the 80s and telling people that in the future, nerds will try to say that people who DON'T like comic books are the ones who don't have sex.

I just don't get angry when people like something I don't or vice versa. Life's too short.

In that case, please direct this comment towards Lyndon. He is the one tossing around accusations of racism and other ad-hominems because we don't like the manufactured corporate trash he defends. This thread was a place of joy and celebration before he showed up.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm responsible for what I say. Not for what you think I say.

I just don't get angry when people like something I don't or vice versa. Life's too short.

Well, some people's egos are so fragile that they feel invalidated if somebody else has different opinions. I personally hate the Transformers movies but you don't see me starting threads celebrating because the latest installments crashed and burned.

[GoTfan]

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm responsible for what I say. Not for what you think I say.

I just don't get angry when people like something I don't or vice versa. Life's too short.

Well, some people's egos are so fragile that they feel invalidated if somebody else has different opinions. I personally hate the Transformers movies but you don't see me starting threads celebrating because the latest installments crashed and burned.

Like your ego it seems. It's fine to like Marvel. I do, but it does have issues it needs resolving. Not everyone who dislikes this film is a bitter little incel. The second you call someone that, you shut the argument down.

And like I said, they're clearly pulling back and recalibrating. People pronouncing this 'The death of Marvel' are speaking way too son, I think.

Funnily all these incel losers who celebrate the death of Marvel had nothing to say about the second season of Loki. Isn't that weird?

Scorsese’s been awful quiet since that fire dropped 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm getting married next year. 😂😂😂😂

These NPC clowns are so predictable it's not even funny anymore. "Don't like my capes--t? You must be [insert politically charged, terminally online insult here]. It couldn't possibly be that you just have actual taste and are sick to death of played out, overdone, boring, lazy, pandering, soulless, cookie cuter, formulaic, directionless, garbage, corporate movies and want to see something new and original!"

Again, I want to emphasize this point: I LIKED the Barbie movie! Putting me on the same level as Ben Shapiro or something, as some "incel" who just hates all things "woke" or something, is demonstrably, laughably false. But he literally can't handle the truth apparently, LMFAO.

Imagine traveling back to the 80s and telling people that in the future, nerds will try to say that people who DON'T like comic books are the ones who don't have sex.

I just don't get angry when people like something I don't or vice versa. Life's too short.

In that case, please direct this comment towards Lyndon. He is the one tossing around accusations of racism and other ad-hominems because we don't like the manufactured corporate trash he defends. This thread was a place of joy and celebration before he showed up.

I like Marvel too mate, but I can accept that other people don't. People are going to defend things they like, but shutting the argument down by calling someone an incel and pretending there are no issues shuts the argument down and just leads to shouting on all sides.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm responsible for what I say. Not for what you think I say.

I just don't get angry when people like something I don't or vice versa. Life's too short.

Well, some people's egos are so fragile that they feel invalidated if somebody else has different opinions. I personally hate the Transformers movies but you don't see me starting threads celebrating because the latest installments crashed and burned.

Like your ego it seems. It's fine to like Marvel. I do, but it does have issues it needs resolving.

k

[GoTfan]

Let's also take a moment to step back and admire how he literally called us "incels" for celebrating the death of capes--t that at one time at least was only really admired by "incels" or their equivalent.

I'm responsible for what I say. Not for what you think I say.

I just don't get angry when people like something I don't or vice versa. Life's too short.

Well, some people's egos are so fragile that they feel invalidated if somebody else has different opinions. I personally hate the Transformers movies but you don't see me starting threads celebrating because the latest installments crashed and burned.

Like your ego it seems. It's fine to like Marvel. I do, but it does have issues it needs resolving.

k

Mate, all you're doing is shutting the argument down. Engage, don't insult.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Mate, all you're doing is shutting the argument down. Engage, don't insult.

I don't get it mate. The others are angry because I disrupted their celebratory circle jerk.
What is your problem?

[John Dule]

GoTfan, just block him. It will make your experience on this site infinitely better. I honestly find him even more insufferable when I agree with him.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

GoTfan, just block him. It will make your experience on this site infinitely better. I honestly find him even more insufferable when I agree with him.

It's kind of funny reading this post after seeing this:

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Wokeness doesn't sell and people don't want to watch "diversity". But if you think this is bad, I think Snow White is going to be such a flop that delivers a reckoning to Disney. They will probably make better after learning from the brutal lessons from that one, if they learn a lesson at all.

As for the MCU, the problem is they are a dime a dozen nowadays. I remember when going to an Avengers movie was actually a treat and something to look forward too. Now its just turn on D+ and watch some random sidecharacter series in preperation for the next cashgrab. Disney + was probably the biggest mistake they ever made as it threw so much saturation at the consumer. I have the service but never even used it 2 months because I feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of content on there.

[GoTfan]

Wokeness doesn't sell and people don't want to watch "diversity". But if you think this is bad, I think Snow White is going to be such a flop that delivers a reckoning to Disney. They will probably make better after learning from the brutal lessons from that one, if they learn a lesson at all.

As for the MCU, the problem is they are a dime a dozen nowadays. I remember when going to an Avengers movie was actually a treat and something to look forward too. Now its just turn on D+ and watch some random sidecharacter series in preperation for the next cashgrab. Disney + was probably the biggest mistake they ever made as it threw so much saturation at the consumer. I have the service but never even used it 2 months because I feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of content on there.

Snow White's going to fail because it's another lazy live action remake of an animated classic that no one needs or wants.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Wokeness doesn't sell and people don't want to watch "diversity".

Repeating the remark I made upthread: This has nothing to do with woke. Barbenheimer was woke (Barbie in the sense that it involved women, Oppenheimer in the sense that it actually had a woke agenda like "war is bad" and "the Red Scare was bad"), and it was the box office event of the year. Across the Spider-Verse was woke (Afro-Latino protagonist and implied trans deuteragonist), and it still made $700m. Wokeness sells, it's just gotta be good wokeness.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Wokeness doesn't sell and people don't want to watch "diversity". But if you think this is bad, I think Snow White is going to be such a flop that delivers a reckoning to Disney. They will probably make better after learning from the brutal lessons from that one, if they learn a lesson at all.

As for the MCU, the problem is they are a dime a dozen nowadays. I remember when going to an Avengers movie was actually a treat and something to look forward too. Now its just turn on D+ and watch some random sidecharacter series in preperation for the next cashgrab. Disney + was probably the biggest mistake they ever made as it threw so much saturation at the consumer. I have the service but never even used it 2 months because I feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of content on there.

As explained this isn't about "wokeness" at all, Black Panther was probably the most "woke" MCU movie and it was a monster hit. It's just not a movie viewers found interesting for the reasons you mentioned.

I doubt Snow White will flop because none of Disney's live action remakes have but there's already an issue....the evil queen has been cast as Gal Gadot. Why on Earth would Gal Gadot be jealous of any other woman's beauty? That Snow White and the Huntsmen movie from a few years back had a similar issue, Charlize Theron was the evil queen...and she was jealous of Kristen Stewart?

[Continential]

If the movie isn't good then so be it. The only thing that will anger me is that all the racist incel losers and the youtube troglodytes like Nerdrotic and Ryan Kinell who prey on them will never stop bragging about "go woke, go broke" and that only movies with white dudes as leads can be good and financially successful.

Who are these people