Are you a Zionist?

[Dr. MB]

You can define the term however you like

[Horus]

Do I think the Jewish people deserve a piece of the world's turf? I suppose, but I don't think it's vital or even helpful to the safety of the Jewish community. Of course, I can certainly understand why some people thought it would be prior to 1948.

Do I think the Levant was the right place to put this piece of turf? Absolutely not.

Voted no.

[TDAS04]

I support Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state today, and I also would have viewed to whole concept behind its establishment as right—and of course I would have backed the UN partition plan of 1948—with or without hindsight. So yes.

[WalterWhite]

Do I think the country of Israel should exist? Yes

Do I think Netanyahu is a perfect leader and that the Israeli government is perfect? No

[Lief 🗽]

More of an anti-anti-Zionist. I don’t have a strong opinion on its creation (it was a well-intentioned and noble thing to give the Jews a state, but it was also a cynical way for the West to wash their hands of a problem they created, and leaving their former colonial subjects to deal with the aftermath). However, there are millions of Jews living in a secular liberal multicultural state there now and the only way you are realistically going to end it is a second Holocaust. So of course I support the only Jewish state’s continued existence.

[dead0man]

yes, 100%

[KaiserDave]

I sort-of agree with Lief. In a historical-political context, I am not a supporter of Zionism, I am more partial to the notions liberal emancipation or social revolution. But I come from a mixed-faith secular assimilated background, so I have privilege.

That said, there is a very pragmatic humanitarian case for Zionism that I believe in, especially after the Holocaust. Now there is a state of millions of Jews that for its citizens, is a very good place to live. I support that state continuing to exist. I do not believe that the abolition of this state would preserve the life or liberty of its inhabitants. This, technically, does make me a Zionist, so I don't reject the label. That said, if you know me at all, I'm not exactly a flag-waver.

[S019]

Yes

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

No, but that doesn't mean I support "driving the Jews back into the sea" or whatever

[lfromnj]

Its important to note even if one disagrees with the Ashkenazi zionist vision of a return to Israel, Mizrahi Jews were forced out by their neighbors and still can not realistically return to their original countries . Even governments which might tolerate them still have population issues.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes

[Battista Minola 1616]

I would say no. I'm not an anti-Zionist either, perhaps "non-Zionist" is correct, although on a practical level I agree with KaiserDave. In general I find it a strange question for someone who is not Jewish or Israeli; I am not sure I would identify as any kind of nationalist except possibly Italian nationalist and even that is rather loaded in a post-Risorgimento context so I hardly do that.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not really (as others have pointed out it's just weird to call yourself a nationalist for a nation you're not part of), but I am sympathetic to Zionism historically, at least in its more left-wing tendencies.

[Vosem]

Sure. I think I am something of a para-Zionist, where I'm sympathetic to the idea of people moving somewhere different from where they're living now to start a new society; this tends to pretty reliably create much better societies than the places they're leaving, whether that means 1600s-era European settler colonies or many individual cases of mass immigration in the 20th and 21st centuries. Before I was 12, I lived in New York City, and it seemed like pretty much everyone there thought their ethnic enclaves were better than wherever they had left. Similarly, the State of Israel seems like a much better society than 1940s Europe, or the 1940s Arab world, which the Jews left.

I think this comes with a number of caveats; what I favor is immigration, not conquest (you can tell it's immigration if it's being done by random families and not a military), and local governments of course have the right to regulate immigration. The problem with 1920s Zionism was that the British Mandate did not have legitimacy among the local population, so it collaborating with Zionism resulted in the rise of Palestinian liberationism as an ideology. That said, that ideology has been so consistently unhinged/ridiculous/inhumane that I am perfectly comfortable just completely dismissing it and saying it should go away, which I suppose also makes me a Zionist.

Of course, I am Jewish, and American, (and in fact the child of very recent immigrants to the United States), so I would think so, wouldn't I.

[Vice President Christian Man]

yes, 100%

[Yellowhammer]

Unless you're Jewish, identifying as a Zionist is really bizarre. Like being a Han Chinese black nationalist, or a Somalian white nationalist.
I support Israel's right to exist but I'm not a Zionist, being a nationalist *of another country that isn't your nation is strange.

[Horus]

Unless you're Jewish, identifying as a Zionist is really bizarre. Like being a Han Chinese black nationalist, or a Somalian white nationalist.
I support Israel's right to exist but I'm not a Zionist, being a nationalist or another country that isn't your nation is strange.

Agreed, though I think my definition of what it means to be an American nationalist is probably... not the same as yours to put it mildly.

[jamestroll]

Zion national park is one of my favorites!

[Meclazine for Israel]

That's me in black meeting with Mitt Romney in 2012 working on the one-state solution.



Have always been impressed with my Jewish friends, their way of life and their openness.

In my dealings, they are kind, honest and fair people.

[Vosem]

Ideological words have many meanings, but I read Zionism as something like 'it is good/praiseworthy/morally right/legitimate for Jews to build a homeland of some sort in Palestine', and therefore as distinct from Israeli nationalism, which is something that could only emerge after Zionism had to some extent already won. (Like, over the past few election cycles Israel had a political party called the 'Zionist Camp', and had a political party called the 'National Front', and these were on opposite sides of the political spectrum!)

I think I am a Zionist, but my real opinion is something like 'it is good/praiseworthy/morally right/legitimate for [people] to build a homeland of some sort [far away from where they're currently stuck]', and I think the case of the Jews and Palestine is one example of a broader phenomenon. That doesn't make me an Israeli nationalist, which I don't think I am.

[Saint Milei]

If you're a zionist and you're not Jewish, you're a weirdo that needs to be deported.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Yes, and any fantasy that it’s no longer necessary has been dispelled in the past few weeks. The Jews need their own state.

[dead0man]

to clarify because some anti-Zionist seem to be confused.  I'm a Zionist in that I think the country of Israel should continue to exist as a primarily Jewish country.  In the same way I believe Russia should continue to exist as a primarily Russian country and that Fiji should continue to exit as a primarily Fijian country.  Yes, in a perfect world created by some super woke AI, that kind of nation state wouldn't exist.  But here in the real world they do, and it's pretty easy to say that Jews are more in need of it than most peoples.

and to head you off at the pass, no, Israel isn't particularly unique in this regard other than the fact that for some freaking reason, it's the only country that is regularly targeted as one that should stop existing in it's current form.  If every 12 years Cameroon's neighbors tried to remove Cameroon from the map and Cameroonians from the continent and the UN had to shut down an agency for being too anti-Cameroonite, perhaps we'd have "Are you a Cameroonist?" threads.

[WalterWhite]

to clarify because some anti-Zionist seem to be confused.  I'm a Zionist in that I think the country of Israel should continue to exist as a primarily Jewish country.  In the same way I believe Russia should continue to exist as a primarily Russian country and that Fiji should continue to exit as a primarily Fijian country.  Yes, in a perfect world created by some super woke AI, that kind of nation state wouldn't exist.  But here in the real world they do, and it's pretty easy to say that Jews are more in need of it than most peoples.

and to head you off at the pass, no, Israel isn't particularly unique in this regard other than the fact that for some freaking reason, it's the only country that is regularly targeted as one that should stop existing in it's current form.  If every 12 years Cameroon's neighbors tried to remove Cameroon from the map and Cameroonians from the continent and the UN had to shut down an agency for being too anti-Cameroonite, perhaps we'd have "Are you a Cameroonist?" threads.

What exactly does "primarily Jewish country" mean, though? Does it mean that the official religion should be Judaism? Does it mean that the majority of its residents should be religious Jews? Does it mean that people should convert to Judaism if they want to become citizens?

The same can be asked about a "primarily Russian country". Does it mean that the official language should be Russian? Does it mean that the majority of its residents should be Russian speakers? Does it mean that people should learn Russian if they want to become citizens?

[dead0man]

to clarify because some anti-Zionist seem to be confused.  I'm a Zionist in that I think the country of Israel should continue to exist as a primarily Jewish country.  In the same way I believe Russia should continue to exist as a primarily Russian country and that Fiji should continue to exit as a primarily Fijian country.  Yes, in a perfect world created by some super woke AI, that kind of nation state wouldn't exist.  But here in the real world they do, and it's pretty easy to say that Jews are more in need of it than most peoples.

and to head you off at the pass, no, Israel isn't particularly unique in this regard other than the fact that for some freaking reason, it's the only country that is regularly targeted as one that should stop existing in it's current form.  If every 12 years Cameroon's neighbors tried to remove Cameroon from the map and Cameroonians from the continent and the UN had to shut down an agency for being too anti-Cameroonite, perhaps we'd have "Are you a Cameroonist?" threads.

What exactly does "primarily Jewish country" mean, though? Does it mean that the official religion should be Judaism? Does it mean that the majority of its residents should be religious Jews? Does it mean that people should convert to Judaism if they want to become citizens?

it means people who identify as ethnically Jewish

The same can be asked about a "primarily Russian country". Does it mean that the official language should be Russian?

I don't care/it doesn't matter

Does it mean that the majority of its residents should be Russian speakers?

no, but it means most day to day interactions with Russians will be in Russian

Does it mean that people should learn Russian if they want to become citizens?

yeah, probably.  Why would you move to Russia and then refuse to learn the local language?  It shouldn't be a law, but yes, you should learn the local language if you live somewhere for a long time.