Israel-Gaza war

[axiomsofdominion]

JVP has a side, that's OK, it´s politics, but people should stop citing them to feel better about themselves.

What the Israel side is saying implies that all or most who died in the operative were armed and opposing the rescue. I'm not sure what the antizionists are saying on the details, I think they want to imply that the IDF killed random civilians. Is there any photos of what actually happened?

Hagari specifically said that they don't know how many of the ~100 dead were civilians. The record of the hostage rescues does specify though that dozens of militants surrounded the building of the 3 male hostages as they were being moved away and that hundreds of militants with phs, kalashnikovs and anti tank weapons were heading towards the building before Israeli air strikes cut them off, and presumably killed many of them.

Obviously Israel could not wait around to verify whether individual deaths were of militants, since Hamas was closing in and the Israelis were trying to leave. They'd have had to kill way more people in order to be in a position to go over each body. It is very likely that *some* number of civilians died, considering the location the hostages were in.

[wnwnwn]

So, Qatar says that civilians died by a fire. I think that the zionist side is ignoring any talk of a fire. Am I right? What are the details?

[DaleCooper]

https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1799494704784089561

“Jewish” voice for “peace” furious that four hostages were freed.

210 innocent Palestinians died through the reckless actions of the Israel government. They are consistent in condemning the violent Zionist regime that is whipping out the people of Gaza.

They openly celebrated the 10/7 genocide. They are neither Jewish nor for peace.

You are not the arbiter of who is and is not Jewish. While JVP is too left wing for me their chairwoman is Jewish and they have a good number of Jewish members.

The ADL does basically nothing to fight defamation but I've never seen you advocate for a name change there.

It's frustrating because the left feels compelled to rewrite people's identities in order to label them properly when they engage in bigotry. It's similar to how red avatars will call racists like Vivek Ramaswamy or even non-white racist Atlas posters "white supremacists". And then it ruins the conversation and turns what should've been a discussion on these people's racism into a conversation on who is and isn't white.

There are anti-Semitic Jews. That Norman Finkelstein guy is a great example. He's a terrorist apologist who has outright defended a number of Muslim terrorist attacks, whether related to Israel or not. He's a holocaust denier, and he uses his own family's holocaust experience to deflect criticism away from that. When certain liberals complain about him, it always turns into a messy argument about "Who is really Jewish," and it's just a big waste of time. Finkelstein is a Jewish guy who supports Islamic terrorism and holocaust revisionism. Kanye West is a racist. But we can't just say this stuff, because everything has to be twisted to fit the appropriate buzzwords (white supremacist, Hamas, etc.) and it drives me crazy.

[axiomsofdominion]

https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1799494704784089561

“Jewish” voice for “peace” furious that four hostages were freed.

210 innocent Palestinians died through the reckless actions of the Israel government. They are consistent in condemning the violent Zionist regime that is whipping out the people of Gaza.

They openly celebrated the 10/7 genocide. They are neither Jewish nor for peace.

You are not the arbiter of who is and is not Jewish. While JVP is too left wing for me their chairwoman is Jewish and they have a good number of Jewish members.

The ADL does basically nothing to fight defamation but I've never seen you advocate for a name change there.

It's frustrating because the left feels compelled to rewrite people's identities in order to label them properly when they engage in bigotry. It's similar to how red avatars will call racists like Vivek Ramaswamy or even non-white racist Atlas posters "white supremacists". And then it ruins the conversation and turns what should've been a discussion on these people's racism into a conversation on who is and isn't white.

There are anti-Semitic Jews. That Norman Finkelstein guy is a great example. He's a terrorist apologist who has outright defended a number of Muslim terrorist attacks, whether related to Israel or not. He's a holocaust denier, and he uses his own family's holocaust experience to deflect criticism away from that. When certain liberals complain about him, it always turns into a messy argument about "Who is really Jewish," and it's just a big waste of time. Finkelstein is a Jewish guy who supports Islamic terrorism and holocaust revisionism. Kanye West is a racist. But we can't just say this stuff, because everything has to be twisted to fit the appropriate buzzwords (white supremacist, Hamas, etc.) and it drives me crazy.

From my perspective it makes no sense to debate whether individual people have Jewish anscestry through their mother or have converted to Judaism. But it does make sense to discuss whether a given group or person has any sway within the overall community. In the case of Finkelstein or JVP the answer to the second question is no.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Very happy that the hostages are home, and I don't want to get into conspiracy theories, but it's kinda suspicious that the rescue happened on the day Netanyahu was about to suffer a major political setback?

[Meclazine for Israel]

(IDF)

US Intelligence did provide assistance with the hostage rescue of the 4 Israeli's

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/06/08/us-intelligence-israeli-hostage-rescue-gaza/

"An American team based in Israel furnished the information, these people said, though it appeared to be secondary to intelligence gathered by the Israelis ahead of the operation."

"Hamas and other militants took approximately 250 hostages amid their brazen cross-border assault into Israel on Oct. 7, a gruesome attack that left 1,200 dead. At least 112 people have been freed, either as part of a negotiated deal between Israel and Hamas late last year or through coordinated rescue operations."

Quality effort.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Very happy that the hostages are home, and I don't want to get into conspiracy theories, but it's kinda suspicious that the rescue happened on the day Netanyahu was about to suffer a major political setback?

The most likely scenario related to this is that his desperation made him more likely to try an EXTREMELY risky rescue mission.

[Devils30]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/08/israel-hostages-nuseirat-camp-gaza/

Apparently the 200 Palestinians killed in an act of war (holding hostages) is the biggest crime according to the too smart for school WashPo. Sorry but this was fair game with Hamas hiding hostages in a dense area.

[DaleCooper]

Yeah, I've made clear my opinions on Israel in this conflict, but I really don't see how you can get too worked up over collateral damage in a successful effort to rescue hostages, especially since Hamas seems to have escalated the encounter and attacked the Israelis as they got the hostages. I'm more skeptical of the convenient timing of this whole operation.

[pppolitics]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/08/israel-hostages-nuseirat-camp-gaza/

Apparently the 200 Palestinians killed in an act of war (holding hostages) is the biggest crime according to the too smart for school WashPo. Sorry but this was fair game with Hamas hiding hostages in a dense area.

You are just making sh**t up now.

"War crime" wasn't mentioned in the Washington Post article that you linked.

[Meclazine for Israel]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/08/israel-hostages-nuseirat-camp-gaza/

Apparently the 200 Palestinians killed in an act of war (holding hostages) is the biggest crime according to the too smart for school WashPo. Sorry but this was fair game with Hamas hiding hostages in a dense area.

Hamas media are saying 210.

Israel are saying less than 100.

As someone previously pointed out, as the IDF were conducting the rescue, Hamas sent in another contingent.

That then raises a difficult decision for the IDF.

To protect the operation, the IDF nullified them.

You raise a really interesting point though.

If Mexico kidnapped 200 US citizens, think of the US SEAL team charged with the rescue 4 of live kidnappee's. Forget the silver, they go for gold.

It is pretty clear that Israel and the US are working in unison on this. The US is getting some amazing research and intelligence from these operations.

Every decision involving the ultimate one to flatten the nearby real estate would have been part of the initial US-Israeli plan.

Easily one of the most amazing hostages rescues conducted.

The operation was named "The Seeds of Summer" suggesting brighter days to come.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp334z7rxxmo


Thumbs Up Brah! Almog Meir Jan was one of the hostages released alive from the central Gaza Strip (IDF)

"He said Israeli commandos, having forced their way in, seized the hostages wrapping themselves around them to provide protective shields before bundling them into military vehicles outside.

As they left he said they faced fierce resistance from Palestinian fighters.

Mr Hagari said Israel’s military had planned the raid in great detail, even building mock-ups of the two apartments to train in."

Possibly the best news for Israel since the war began.

The Israeli's are delighted. I have not seen them happier in the last 8 months.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

Yeah, I've made clear my opinions on Israel in this conflict, but I really don't see how you can get too worked up over collateral damage in a successful effort to rescue hostages, especially since Hamas seems to have escalated the encounter and attacked the Israelis as they got the hostages. I'm more skeptical of the convenient timing of this whole operation.

If Hamas prior to October 7th had attacked across the border and killed hundreds of Israelis including children to rescue 4 Palestinians unjustly held in an Israeli prison would you consider that to be acceptable?

[Meclazine for Israel]

Israeli's Celebrating

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7-EkCNvemh/

"Everything we need today."

"Thank you, brave IDF heroes. Now do it again. Whatever it takes."

🎗💙🤍🇮🇱 #bringthemhomenow

[DaleCooper]

Yeah, I've made clear my opinions on Israel in this conflict, but I really don't see how you can get too worked up over collateral damage in a successful effort to rescue hostages, especially since Hamas seems to have escalated the encounter and attacked the Israelis as they got the hostages. I'm more skeptical of the convenient timing of this whole operation.

If Hamas prior to October 7th had attacked across the border and killed hundreds of Israelis including children to rescue 4 Palestinians unjustly held in an Israeli prison would you consider that to be acceptable?

No, and out of context I wouldn't consider it acceptable from Israel either, but given October 7th as well as the likelihood that Hamas retaliated against the rescue attempt in an area filled with their own civilians I am finding it difficult to feel particularly outraged at Israel beyond my opposition to Netanyahu and Israeli conservatives in general.

[Dr. MB]

Vile tankie paper vomits Jew-hatred, doing nothing to alter the course of the war but increasing hatred against diaspora Jews. News at 11.

why do you think military action is the answer when more hostages have been killed by these supposed rescue operations than actually rescued?

[Silent Hunter]

Yeah, I've made clear my opinions on Israel in this conflict, but I really don't see how you can get too worked up over collateral damage in a successful effort to rescue hostages, especially since Hamas seems to have escalated the encounter and attacked the Israelis as they got the hostages. I'm more skeptical of the convenient timing of this whole operation.

If Hamas prior to October 7th had attacked across the border and killed hundreds of Israelis including children to rescue 4 Palestinians unjustly held in an Israeli prison would you consider that to be acceptable?

That is why they took the hostages, basically. To use them as bargaining chips to obtain the release of people held in Israeli prisons. Something done by terrorist groups many times before.

Some of those may well be unjustly held. Others will be very much justly held.

Yet hostage taking is illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention, something the UN, ICJ and ICC prosecutor have made clear.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

Yeah, I've made clear my opinions on Israel in this conflict, but I really don't see how you can get too worked up over collateral damage in a successful effort to rescue hostages, especially since Hamas seems to have escalated the encounter and attacked the Israelis as they got the hostages. I'm more skeptical of the convenient timing of this whole operation.

If Hamas prior to October 7th had attacked across the border and killed hundreds of Israelis including children to rescue 4 Palestinians unjustly held in an Israeli prison would you consider that to be acceptable?

No, and out of context I wouldn't consider it acceptable from Israel either, but given October 7th as well as the likelihood that Hamas retaliated against the rescue attempt in an area filled with their own civilians I am finding it difficult to feel particularly outraged at Israel beyond my opposition to Netanyahu and Israeli conservatives in general.

So if given the context that the IDF has killed tens of thousands of innocents minimum and the countless accusations of torture and other war crimes since then would Hamas killing hundreds of Israelis including children to rescue 4 Palestinians right now be something you'd have a hard time feeling outraged about, or would you suddenly rediscover your outrage?

Yeah, I've made clear my opinions on Israel in this conflict, but I really don't see how you can get too worked up over collateral damage in a successful effort to rescue hostages, especially since Hamas seems to have escalated the encounter and attacked the Israelis as they got the hostages. I'm more skeptical of the convenient timing of this whole operation.

If Hamas prior to October 7th had attacked across the border and killed hundreds of Israelis including children to rescue 4 Palestinians unjustly held in an Israeli prison would you consider that to be acceptable?

That is why they took the hostages, basically. To use them as bargaining chips to obtain the release of people held in Israeli prisons. Something done by terrorist groups many times before.

Some of those may well be unjustly held. Others will be very much justly held.

Yet hostage taking is illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention, something the UN, ICJ and ICC prosecutor have made clear.

There are certainly similarities but there's a fundamental asymmetry. If somebody took the mirrored position of Lief (he's far from the only one, by the way) and said that Hamas's actions on October 7th were actually completely awesome and that all of the victims were "justified collateral damage" then I'm pretty sure they'd be banned. The consistent pattern is: any amount of violence from Palestinian factions justifies unlimited violence from the Israeli response but no amount of Israeli violence ever justifies a Palestinian violent response. Israelis acting with brutality in response to Palestinian crimes in understandable, Palestinians acting with brutality in response to Israeli crimes is evil and demonstrates why they have to be stopped by force.

[DaleCooper]

Yeah, I've made clear my opinions on Israel in this conflict, but I really don't see how you can get too worked up over collateral damage in a successful effort to rescue hostages, especially since Hamas seems to have escalated the encounter and attacked the Israelis as they got the hostages. I'm more skeptical of the convenient timing of this whole operation.

If Hamas prior to October 7th had attacked across the border and killed hundreds of Israelis including children to rescue 4 Palestinians unjustly held in an Israeli prison would you consider that to be acceptable?

No, and out of context I wouldn't consider it acceptable from Israel either, but given October 7th as well as the likelihood that Hamas retaliated against the rescue attempt in an area filled with their own civilians I am finding it difficult to feel particularly outraged at Israel beyond my opposition to Netanyahu and Israeli conservatives in general.

So if given the context that the IDF has killed tens of thousands of innocents minimum and the countless accusations of torture and other war crimes since then would Hamas killing hundreds of Israelis including children to rescue 4 Palestinians right now be something you'd have a hard time feeling outraged about, or would you suddenly rediscover your outrage?

If Israel went into the Palestinian territories and indiscriminately killed and raped over a thousand people in a single day and took civilian hostages and held them for months in a location surrounded by Israeli civilians and then responded to a Palestinian operation to rescue the hostages with violence that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Israelis, including children, then no I would not be outraged at the Palestinians at all.

[Meclazine for Israel]

BBC News suggested that Israel should have warned the Palestinians they were about to conduct a hostage rescue.

Jonathan Conricus

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7-90thOU-S/

I don't think BBC are bringing their best. Interestingly, Jonathan is saying the hostages were held by ordinary Palestinians.

As soon as he started down the line that evidence points to Palestinians being complicit in the kidnappings, the BBC presenter said she could not verify that and shut him down.

[Agafin]

BBC News suggested that Israel should have warned the Palestinians they were about to conduct a hostage rescue.

Lol what is this stupidity? I'm glad that Israel is telling the collective pro-Hamas International Community to f**k off. If they can do another 30 such operations to liberate the remaining hostages then I say, go ahead.

[axiomsofdominion]

BBC News suggested that Israel should have warned the Palestinians they were about to conduct a hostage rescue.

Jonathan Conricus

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7-90thOU-S/

I don't think BBC are bringing their best. Interestingly, Jonathan is saying the hostages were held by ordinary Palestinians.

As soon as he started down the line that evidence points to Palestinians being complicit in the kidnappings, the BBC presenter said she could not verify that and shut him down.

But Hamas actually confirmed what he said. They insisted that the Israelis killed journalists and doctors in the homes where the hostages were held.

Of course one or more of those doctors and journalists held positions within the government of Hamas.

Regardless the BBC remains consistent. As long as what they are reporting on doesn't matter you can trust them but any issue that matters to people at all they are basically trash. This was just as true of their treatment of Corbyn regarding both anti-semitism and any other Labour drama as it is about Hamas.

[GoTfan]

BBC News suggested that Israel should have warned the Palestinians they were about to conduct a hostage rescue.

Lol what is this stupidity? I'm glad that Israel is telling the collective pro-Hamas International Community to f**k off. If they can do another 30 such operations to liberate the remaining hostages then I say, go ahead.

The international community is only pro-Hamas if you decide that mild criticism of Israel's conduct is inherently pro-Hamas. That's a pretty dangerous black-and-white view to have.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/08/israel-hostages-nuseirat-camp-gaza/

Apparently the 200 Palestinians killed in an act of war (holding hostages) is the biggest crime according to the too smart for school WashPo. Sorry but this was fair game with Hamas hiding hostages in a dense area.

So those 200 people, who had their mortal lives cut short, deserved to die is what I'm getting out of from some of you here?

Maybe it's just me, but leaving scores of people dead in the wake of an operation trying to get a handful of people freed doesn't seem like the best of strategies or planning.

[axiomsofdominion]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/08/israel-hostages-nuseirat-camp-gaza/

Apparently the 200 Palestinians killed in an act of war (holding hostages) is the biggest crime according to the too smart for school WashPo. Sorry but this was fair game with Hamas hiding hostages in a dense area.

So those 200 people, who had their mortal lives cut short, deserved to die is what I'm getting out of from some of you here?

No, any people who were not Hamas members didn't deserve to die and it is yet another stain on the record of Hamas and a sign of the harm they represent to the Palestinian people. If only Hamas had not swarmed the rescue mission with hundreds of militants with anti-air and anti-tank weapons in a desparate attempt to slaughter the hostages and rescuers.

[axiomsofdominion]

"Some new details from Noa Argamani:

She was held at an house of a "relatively wealthy" Gazan family, which checks out with the reports that her captors were an AJ journalist and his doctor father. (Plus, destroys the narrative that Palestinians only turn to terror because of poverty and lack of options).

The father of the family kept saying she's "blessed from Allah" and "should thank God that you got our family", as other hostages are having it much worse. In a way it's true, as unlike other hostages, Noa did not have food shortage and had her own small room/bed. Also, if she was at the tunnels she's a lot less likely to be rescued.

Noa was not allowed to shower at first, but eventually managed to convince her captors to let her shower. She learned Arabic to be able to talk to them, and they also forced her to read the Quran. She was not allowed to leave the house and has barely seen any sunlight in the last 8 months."