Israel-Gaza war

[Devout Centrist]

Israeli military recovers the bodies of 3 more hotages killed on Oct. 7 from Gaza

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israeli-military-recovers-bodies-3-hostages-killed-oct-7-gaza-hamas-rcna153869

"Hanan Yablonka, Michel Nisenbaum, and Orion Hernandez were killed on Oct. 7 at the Mefalsim Intersection and their bodies were taken into Gaza, the Israel Defense Forces said in a statement Friday morning, citing intelligence."

R.I.P. Brothers.

The Palestinians are storing dead bodies now?

Keeping them in a fridge. Storage locker? How do you keep 3 dead bodies for 229 days? There is something fundamentally corrupt in stealing dead bodies and storing them.

It should be noted that both the Israeli government and various Palestinian groups do this and have been doing it for a while.

Brah, the Palestinians are keeping the decapitated heads of victims in their fridge/freezer.

In their homes.

Equivalency?

You misunderstand. Both sides negotiate for the return of the bodies of their deceased, whether they die in custody or were killed by the enemy. Such is the nature of this conflict.

[Meclazine for Israel]

We can see the ICJ has gone down the toilet.

Rafah is the last remaining hideout of 4,000 Hamas fighters.

Ever since Israel were preparing to finish the job, suddenly a court with no jurisdiction suddenly makes a decision on the offensive?

Israel presses on with Rafah Offensive

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-26/israel-gaza-war-world-court-ruling-rafah-invasion-continues/103893792

"Israel says it has kept the Rafah crossing open and has asked Egypt to coordinate with it on sending aid convoys through it, however Egypt has previously refused, fearing the Israeli hold will remain permanent, and demanded Palestinians be put back in charge of the facility."

Egypt being totally uncooperative to everyone but Hamas. Egypt's and the ICJ's decisions have been perfectly aligned with the needs of Hamas at every step.

Did anyone tell the Americans not to land on the Island of Iwo Jima in 1945?

Did they tell the Allies not to partake in the Battle of Monte Cassino?

Was it announced by George Clooney?

This is absurd. Israel are going to be digging out terrorists from Hamastan for the next 40 years.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

We can see the ICJ has gone down the toilet.

Rafah is the last remaining hideout of 4,000 Hamas fighters.

Ever since Israel were preparing to finish the job, suddenly a court with no jurisdiction suddenly makes a decision on the offensive?

Israel presses on with Rafah Offensive

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-26/israel-gaza-war-world-court-ruling-rafah-invasion-continues/103893792

"Israel says it has kept the Rafah crossing open and has asked Egypt to coordinate with it on sending aid convoys through it, however Egypt has previously refused, fearing the Israeli hold will remain permanent, and demanded Palestinians be put back in charge of the facility."

Egypt being totally uncooperative to everyone but Hamas. Egypt's and the ICJ's decisions have been perfectly aligned with the needs of Hamas at every step.

Did anyone tell the Americans not to land on the Island of Iwo Jima in 1945?

Did they tell the Allies not to partake in the Battle of Monte Cassino?

Was it announced by George Clooney?

This is absurd. Israel are going to be digging out terrorists from Hamastan for the next 40 years.

I don’t think Rafah is the last holdout of Hamas.  It has become increasingly clear that while Hamas some well-armed battalions there, it is not the central base of operations it was made out to be by Israel.  Yeah, they may have needed to go in eventually and have been far more careful (so far, at least) than they were elsewhere in Gaza, but it has become abundantly clear that the Rafah offensive is little more than Netanyahu having lost the plot of his own demagoguery and not wanting to be perceived as backing down. 

Israel should be focusing on the Old City district of Gaza City (the large and centrally-located heart of Gaza City that has been ignored by on-the-ground Israeli troops despite being widely regarded as Hamas’ base of operations in Gaza City) and especially Khan Yunis (where it sure seems like at least some of the remaining bigger names are hiding underground).  Even dismantling the underground tunnel networks in places like Jabalia and the Jabalia and Nuseirat refugee camps would be a far better use of IDF soldiers than invading Rafah because then Israel could stop launching air strikes at those refugee camps to hit underground tunnels.

What is happening in Rafah should enrage anyone who views Israel’s security as more important than Netanyahu’s pissing contest with Biden.  All the Rafah offensive will do is waste resources and piss off an international community that will always be inclined to view anything Israel does through the least sympathetic lens possible.  Whether in Israel or anywhere else, the Jewish community cannot afford this sort of nonsense. 

And speaking personally, as someone who has gone to the mat to pushback against anti-Israel misinformation despite utterly despising both the current Israeli government and its policies (and being well aware that folks like Netanyahu and Smotrich want to eliminate the right of return for Reform Jews such as myself because they don’t regard us as actual Jews), this is infuriating.  It is emotionally exhausting enough defending Israel against the bad-faith and/or anti-Semitic attacks without them doing stupid stuff like the Rafah offensive. 

And for what?  Israel took their shot at the only truly notable Hamas guy whom there was AFAIK good reason to think was hiding in Rafah, the Commander of Hamas’ military forces in Rafah, and it’s not clear they even got him (looking increasingly like the airstrike was a close miss though).  So now he’s probably hiding somewhere new. 

Most importantly, there were tons of civilians taking refuge in Rafah.  Absent a pretty d*** good reason, that should’ve been the last place Israel went to so everyone there could be evacuated to literally anywhere else in Gaza.  Instead, Israeli troops haven’t even tried to enter one of Hamas’ main strongholds (the Old City district of Gaza City) and never bothered fully clearing out Hamas or its tunnel network in Khan Yunis.  IIRC roughly 3/4 of Hamas’ tunnels beneath the city are believed to be perfectly intact due to Israel never really committing sufficient troops to throughly dismantle Hamas there before inexplicably withdrawing most of their troops from Khan Yunis.

@Meclaizine: I apologize for the rant (I’ve wanted to get all this anger and frustration about the Rafah offensive off my chest all week) and none of my frustration in this post was directed at you.  It’s just me venting about the present situation in Rafah.

[Meclazine for Israel]

You are free to write whatever you like. I don't mind others opinions, especially a hard working moderator trying to keep this place on the straight and narrow.

A conversational rant is a conversation indeed.

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

[pppolitics]

Human Rights Watch co-founder Aryeh Neier, who fled the Nazis as a child, tells Fareed why he has come to the conclusion that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/05/26/gps-0526-icc-charges-against-israel.cnn

Is Israel Committing Genocide?

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2024/06/06/is-israel-committing-genocide-aryeh-neier/

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

God I can’t wait for the Israel can do no wrong crowd defending this one

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/faytuks/status/1794860319728075076?s=12

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/syylllia/status/1794855529753506121
https://twitter.com/lululitae/status/1794828582075900256
https://twitter.com/Portes_Thomas/status/1794835072895565936
https://twitter.com/rifain_nouvelle/status/1794818507089076591
https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1794817769730388093
https://twitter.com/JonnyFX1/status/1794862444156006600
https://twitter.com/hamad_alnajjar/status/1794828909797912693

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

God I can’t wait for the Israel can do no wrong crowd defending this one

It's TikTok's fault!

TikTok is poisoning people against Israel.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

That’s horrible, no ifs, ands, or buts.  It’s objectively not genocide, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a horrific act.  And you can’t even argue that Israel was targeting such high-ranking Hamas officials that it was worth the risk or whatever.  These were not top guys.  This strike never should’ve been launched.

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

That’s horrible, no ifs, ands, or buts.  It’s objectively not genocide, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a horrific act.  And you can’t even argue that Israel was targeting such high-ranking Hamas officials that it was worth the risk or whatever.  These were not top guys.  This strike never should’ve been launched.

According to the Palestine Red Crescent Society, the area hit is a designated "safe zone".

This isn't the first time that Israel has hit a "safe zone" either.

Time to reconsider the "objectively not genocide" part.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/syylllia/status/1794855529753506121
https://twitter.com/lululitae/status/1794828582075900256
https://twitter.com/Portes_Thomas/status/1794835072895565936
https://twitter.com/rifain_nouvelle/status/1794818507089076591
https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1794817769730388093
https://twitter.com/JonnyFX1/status/1794862444156006600
https://twitter.com/hamad_alnajjar/status/1794828909797912693

That JonnyUTD guy is a pretty rabidly anti-Semitic nutjob whose Twitter is filled with Hamas propaganda and conspiracy theories like his claim that Hamas’ campaign of rape and sexual violence against Israeli civilians on 10/7 was an Israeli hoax.  

To be clear, this doesn’t mitigate how bad what happened in Rafah just now was, but it’s also not a great look that you’re treating this guy like a remotely credible source.

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/syylllia/status/1794855529753506121
https://twitter.com/lululitae/status/1794828582075900256
https://twitter.com/Portes_Thomas/status/1794835072895565936
https://twitter.com/rifain_nouvelle/status/1794818507089076591
https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1794817769730388093
https://twitter.com/JonnyFX1/status/1794862444156006600
https://twitter.com/hamad_alnajjar/status/1794828909797912693

That JonnyUTD guy is a pretty rabidly anti-Semitic nutjob whose Twitter is filled with Hamas propaganda and conspiracy theories like his claim that Hamas’ campaign of rape and sexual violence against Israeli civilians on 10/7 was an Israeli hoax.  

To be clear, this doesn’t mitigate how bad what happened in Rafah just now was, but it’s also not a great look that you’re treating this guy like a remotely credible source.

I don't care about who "JonnyUTD" is.

Are you disputing the legitimacy of the videos that have been posted?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/syylllia/status/1794855529753506121
https://twitter.com/lululitae/status/1794828582075900256
https://twitter.com/Portes_Thomas/status/1794835072895565936
https://twitter.com/rifain_nouvelle/status/1794818507089076591
https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1794817769730388093
https://twitter.com/JonnyFX1/status/1794862444156006600
https://twitter.com/hamad_alnajjar/status/1794828909797912693

That JonnyUTD guy is a pretty rabidly anti-Semitic nutjob whose Twitter is filled with Hamas propaganda and conspiracy theories like his claim that Hamas’ campaign of rape and sexual violence against Israeli civilians on 10/7 was an Israeli hoax.  

To be clear, this doesn’t mitigate how bad what happened in Rafah just now was, but it’s also not a great look that you’re treating this guy like a remotely credible source.

Are you disputing the legitimacy of the videos that have been posted?

Did you read my post?  I literally made it clear I was not doing so. 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

That’s horrible, no ifs, ands, or buts.  It’s objectively not genocide, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a horrific act.  And you can’t even argue that Israel was targeting such high-ranking Hamas officials that it was worth the risk or whatever.  These were not top guys.  This strike never should’ve been launched.

According to the Palestine Red Crescent Society, the area hit is a designated "safe zone".

This isn't the first time that Israel has hit a "safe zone" either.

Time to reconsider the "objectively not genocide" part.

That’s not genocide.  A war crime?  Quite possibly, but not genocide.  Words have meaning.

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

That’s horrible, no ifs, ands, or buts.  It’s objectively not genocide, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a horrific act.  And you can’t even argue that Israel was targeting such high-ranking Hamas officials that it was worth the risk or whatever.  These were not top guys.  This strike never should’ve been launched.

According to the Palestine Red Crescent Society, the area hit is a designated "safe zone".

This isn't the first time that Israel has hit a "safe zone" either.

Time to reconsider the "objectively not genocide" part.

That’s not genocide.  A war crime?  Quite possibly, but not genocide.  Words have meaning.

Maybe you think that I looked up "genocide" in a dictionary and using the term willy-nilly.

That is not the case.

When I talking about "genocide", I am using the term as defined in the Genocide Convention.

[pppolitics]

Does this crosses Biden's Rafah "redline" yet?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Every time pppolitics posts it makes me wish I was a Likud-supporting Zionist. A pretty reprehensible position of course, but at least it's not nominally being on the same side as that intellectual titan.

pppolitics posts actually remind me of those idiot Boomer anti-vaxxers posting about the Covid vaccine and how that made me so proud to be vaccinated, at least they would if I was pro-Netanyahu.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

That’s horrible, no ifs, ands, or buts.  It’s objectively not genocide, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a horrific act.  And you can’t even argue that Israel was targeting such high-ranking Hamas officials that it was worth the risk or whatever.  These were not top guys.  This strike never should’ve been launched.

According to the Palestine Red Crescent Society, the area hit is a designated "safe zone".

This isn't the first time that Israel has hit a "safe zone" either.

Time to reconsider the "objectively not genocide" part.

That’s not genocide.  A war crime?  Quite possibly, but not genocide.  Words have meaning.

We have the support of the majority of international organizations.

Or are those also using the term willy-nilly or antisemitist.

Wake up.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

That’s horrible, no ifs, ands, or buts.  It’s objectively not genocide, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a horrific act.  And you can’t even argue that Israel was targeting such high-ranking Hamas officials that it was worth the risk or whatever.  These were not top guys.  This strike never should’ve been launched.

This isn't being a "i slipped my finger" moment anymore for Israël. This is the same pattern over & over again for the last 8 months.

A simple "this strike never should've been launched" doesn't cut it.

Also, it was not the worth the risk, might as well throw a nuke and say it was worth the risk because it surely would've killed Hamas terrorists / members within Gaza, at least it's how you would respond if you were consistent and how you would defend at the very least the use of tactical nuclear weapons.

When USA did operations in Iraq, Iran, Syria Afghanistan in the recent past etc... they were careful not to cause civilian casualties. ... That's the difference.

[CumbrianLefty]

Last night was simply completely indefensible on any level and I am glad that CT recognises this.

(and his point that even at moments of genuine horror, we should stick to credible sources is fair)

Gantz should collapse the war cabinet this morning. Bibi has dodged justice for long enough.

[Silent Hunter]

My initial impression is that, since Israel isn't known for using incendiary devices, the missile strike set off something like a gas cannister and triggered a major fire that way.

Which is really something that should have been thought about before authorising a strike like that.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Dr Phil

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7H4ZuftIqW/

My opinion of him has increased markedly.

Hillary Clinton

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7Ht24wNk50/

Great message.

[afleitch]

My initial impression is that, since Israel isn't known for using incendiary devices, the missile strike set off something like a gas cannister and triggered a major fire that way.

Which is really something that should have been thought about before authorising a strike like that.

I suspect it has been 'thought about' and the response is that it's proportionate in each and every case.