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riverwalk3
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« Reply #6275 on: February 29, 2024, 07:17:48 PM »

When Israel invades Rafah, Biden will once again be the fall guy, just like he was for inflation.
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afleitch
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« Reply #6276 on: February 29, 2024, 07:21:07 PM »

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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #6277 on: February 29, 2024, 07:40:52 PM »



A few hours later, it was clarified that Austin was referring to numbers from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry and that the Pentagon could not independently verify these figures, but thanks for playing Smiley
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« Reply #6278 on: February 29, 2024, 09:31:55 PM »

There's some truth to this (I think many people within the AfD see things similarly to you), but from the perspective of Russian society, the main things that made Nazism so offensive, like a desire to conquer territories to the east of Germany, have been excised. (Diet soda is actually meaningfully different from regular soda -- there's no more sugar in it, and that was the main bad thing!) If Gaza 80 years from now is voting for "Diet Hamas", and Diet Hamas is equivocal-or-even-kinda-supportive of an Israeli war effort going on somewhere far from Gaza, I think that would mean a successful political solution had been implemented.

World War II was not fought because Germans were chafing under Russian occupation of territory that they had been disputing with them for decades. There's really no use in making this DDR comparison apart from "the Soviets bombed Germany really bad and Israel is bombing Gaza really bad."

Also, the Soviets did have some organic on the ground support in the postwar Soviet Occupation Zone from the self-avowed German communists and socialists who had opposed the Third Reich and been persecuted by Hitler's regime. These were the people who created the Socialist Unity Party and the DDR's bureaucracy. There is no comparable group of people in Gaza who share any ideological or other affinity with Israel whatsoever.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #6279 on: February 29, 2024, 11:50:00 PM »

JFC Vosem do you just have no soul? Supporting the mass starvation of civilians as a war tactic? You’re as awful as the vatniks I fight in the Ukraine thread
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« Reply #6280 on: March 01, 2024, 12:01:22 AM »

JFC Vosem do you just have no soul? Supporting the mass starvation of civilians as a war tactic? You’re as awful as the vatniks I fight in the Ukraine thread

FWIW I've never heard him express such enthusiasm for the deaths of thousands of people in any other armed conflict so I'm going to be generous and assume he's one of those people for whom ethnic-religious bias just goes off the charts.

As for General MacArthur and the others who seem way more invested in this whole mess than any other contemporary or recent war, they just come across as garden variety racist.
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« Reply #6281 on: March 01, 2024, 01:53:03 AM »

JFC Vosem do you just have no soul? Supporting the mass starvation of civilians as a war tactic? You’re as awful as the vatniks I fight in the Ukraine thread

FWIW I've never heard him express such enthusiasm for the deaths of thousands of people in any other armed conflict so I'm going to be generous and assume he's one of those people for whom ethnic-religious bias just goes off the charts.

As for General MacArthur and the others who seem way more invested in this whole mess than any other contemporary or recent war, they just come across as garden variety racist.

Vosem has said that he effectively supports unrestricted warfare and more or less supports starvation of civilians. He also refers to people like me who simply want some aid to reach civilians on both sides as slavery supporters and Nazis. Finally, he believes that Israelis who support a ceasefire to be 'bad Israelis'.

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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #6282 on: March 01, 2024, 02:32:22 AM »

When Israel invades Rafah, Biden will once again be the fall guy, just like he was for inflation.

If that happens. It may not at this rate. Israel still hasn't fully secured the rest of Gaza.
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John Dule
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« Reply #6283 on: March 01, 2024, 04:25:00 AM »

The two types of Israel supporters:

1) “Uh ackthually, it wasn’t 25,000 Gazans dead, it was merely 22,000. Get your facts straight.”

2) “I wish it was a million.”
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afleitch
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« Reply #6284 on: March 01, 2024, 04:33:37 AM »



A few hours later, it was clarified that Austin was referring to numbers from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry and that the Pentagon could not independently verify these figures, but thanks for playing Smiley

I'm not 'playing'.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #6285 on: March 01, 2024, 06:45:22 AM »



A few hours later, it was clarified that Austin was referring to numbers from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry and that the Pentagon could not independently verify these figures, but thanks for playing Smiley

I'm not 'playing'.

Roll Eyes
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DavidB.
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« Reply #6286 on: March 01, 2024, 07:01:41 AM »

The last piece of fake Hamas-fabricated outrage propaganda was already a while ago, so I suppose it was time for something new again. Gladly consumed by the 'Western, enlightened, liberal' target audience, of course, with no questions asked.
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« Reply #6287 on: March 01, 2024, 08:28:23 AM »



A few hours later, it was clarified that Austin was referring to numbers from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry and that the Pentagon could not independently verify these figures, but thanks for playing Smiley

If the official U.S. government take is those numbers are fictional, why did Austin even mention them? It's not like he went and found those numbers himself, someone on his staff did and passed it on to him.
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« Reply #6288 on: March 01, 2024, 09:01:07 AM »

When Israel invades Rafah, Biden will once again be the fall guy, just like he was for inflation.

If that happens. It may not at this rate. Israel still hasn't fully secured the rest of Gaza.
Netanyahu has to drag out the war as long as possible to stay in power.
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« Reply #6289 on: March 01, 2024, 09:57:17 AM »
« Edited: March 01, 2024, 10:07:31 AM by FT-02 Senator A.F.E. 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦 »

The last piece of fake Hamas-fabricated outrage propaganda was already a while ago, so I suppose it was time for something new again. Gladly consumed by the 'Western, enlightened, liberal' target audience, of course, with no questions asked.

Call it propaganda as much as you want, but no amount of "well aktually they deserved it..." by Vosem or the other rabid Pro-Israelis can change the fact, as of 9 AM CST on March 1st, that scores of people are now lying dead because the IDF had shot people desperately trying to get food.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #6290 on: March 01, 2024, 10:06:38 AM »

The two types of Israel supporters:

1) “Uh ackthually, it wasn’t 25,000 Gazans dead, it was merely 22,000. Get your facts straight.”

2) “I wish it was a million.”

Compare to "the Holocaust never happened - but I blame Hitler for not finishing the job".

Almost uncanny.
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Vosem
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« Reply #6291 on: March 01, 2024, 11:33:28 AM »
« Edited: March 01, 2024, 11:42:47 AM by Vosem »

There's some truth to this (I think many people within the AfD see things similarly to you), but from the perspective of Russian society, the main things that made Nazism so offensive, like a desire to conquer territories to the east of Germany, have been excised. (Diet soda is actually meaningfully different from regular soda -- there's no more sugar in it, and that was the main bad thing!) If Gaza 80 years from now is voting for "Diet Hamas", and Diet Hamas is equivocal-or-even-kinda-supportive of an Israeli war effort going on somewhere far from Gaza, I think that would mean a successful political solution had been implemented.

World War II was not fought because Germans were chafing under Russian occupation of territory that they had been disputing with them for decades. There's really no use in making this DDR comparison apart from "the Soviets bombed Germany really bad and Israel is bombing Gaza really bad."

Also, the Soviets did have some organic on the ground support in the postwar Soviet Occupation Zone from the self-avowed German communists and socialists who had opposed the Third Reich and been persecuted by Hitler's regime. These were the people who created the Socialist Unity Party and the DDR's bureaucracy. There is no comparable group of people in Gaza who share any ideological or other affinity with Israel whatsoever.

World War II was fought because the Germans felt particular land was within their ancestral patrimony which did not belong to the German state, and moreover because Germany felt bad that it had lost a prior war and now had to pay reparations to significantly wealthier states. This is extremely analogous to the Palestinian situation, where they feel that land which does not belong to them under the normal international system should, and they also feel bad because of previous defeats to wealthier nations. Appealing to 'indigeneity' is simply an attempt to obscure this.

JFC Vosem do you just have no soul? Supporting the mass starvation of civilians as a war tactic? You’re as awful as the vatniks I fight in the Ukraine thread

FWIW I've never heard him express such enthusiasm for the deaths of thousands of people in any other armed conflict so I'm going to be generous and assume he's one of those people for whom ethnic-religious bias just goes off the charts.

As for General MacArthur and the others who seem way more invested in this whole mess than any other contemporary or recent war, they just come across as garden variety racist.

The reason you have never heard me express opinions about other conflicts is because they are rarely discussed on Atlas, not because my opinions are not universal in character. I routinely criticize international 'humanitarian' organizations and I've called to cut off aid to other UN agencies besides UNRWA (particularly MONUSCO). I think it is a common failure mode of modern humanitarian organizations to be captured by essentially ethnic-fascist ways of thinking when some ethnicity is upset it does not have a state (in fact where UN forces on the ground have taken sides in post-Cold War conflicts, such as by promoting their educational materials, it has almost invariably been the side I do not sympathize with -- I can't think of top-of-my-head exceptions although they may exist). I complained to my high school administration that Amnesty International is a racist organization which should not be allowed to operate on high school grounds in 2013, and posted about it on Atlas then, so 11 years ago. This is one of the issues where I've actually done (very small-scale) real-life activism! My stance is in no way 'new' or something I've only said now.

My stance that 'when there is an armed conflict we should only send aid to the side we want to win' is not actually something that gets questioned in other armed conflicts. Of course I support sanctioning Russia, even though this causes food and healthcare to be more expensive in places where people are desperately poor, because any money the Russian government spends on that is money that can't go towards the war effort. My stance is not one considered controversial outside the Israel-Gaza conflict.

Advocating for aid to be cut off is not advocating for death; it is advocating for a quicker end to the war, which continues only because Hamas won't unconditionally surrender. The Iran-Iraq War could only go for 8 years because international powers kept both sides resupplied. Real warfare kills people much faster and more thoroughly than famine or lack of supplies -- if you actually want to argue for sending aid to Gaza, you have to argue something like 'the war isn't that bad really'. I haven't seen anyone argue this. I think it would require Hamas to show much greater haplessness than they have for it to actually be true.

But, yes, absolutely, my stance is that aid in conflict zones should go only to the side we want to see win (or none at all, if we don't care who wins and just want the war to end as soon as possible), and I've been saying this just on Atlas for over a decade. It very much is a universalist position and not one particular to Israel-Gaza.

JFC Vosem do you just have no soul? Supporting the mass starvation of civilians as a war tactic? You’re as awful as the vatniks I fight in the Ukraine thread

FWIW I've never heard him express such enthusiasm for the deaths of thousands of people in any other armed conflict so I'm going to be generous and assume he's one of those people for whom ethnic-religious bias just goes off the charts.

As for General MacArthur and the others who seem way more invested in this whole mess than any other contemporary or recent war, they just come across as garden variety racist.

Vosem has said that he effectively supports unrestricted warfare and more or less supports starvation of civilians. He also refers to people like me who simply want some aid to reach civilians on both sides as slavery supporters and Nazis. Finally, he believes that Israelis who support a ceasefire to be 'bad Israelis'.



Yes, I believe supporting sending aid to Gaza is an evil stance (though many people who hold it are just misled, not necessarily evil themselves), and I think people who support a ceasefire are bad regardless of what country they live in. Being Israeli or Gazan or whatever else is no excuse.

The last piece of fake Hamas-fabricated outrage propaganda was already a while ago, so I suppose it was time for something new again. Gladly consumed by the 'Western, enlightened, liberal' target audience, of course, with no questions asked.

Call it propaganda as much as you want, but no amount of "well aktually they deserved it..." by Vosem or the other rabid Pro-Israelis can change the fact, as of 9 AM CST on March 1st, that scores of people are now lying dead because the IDF had shot people desperately trying to get food.

No, scores of people are dead because Hamas opened fire at them and aid trucks ran over them. Significantly less than a score died because the IDF fired at people firing at them. Zero people would be dead if Hamas surrendered unconditionally and agreed to carry out Israeli orders.

The two types of Israel supporters:

1) “Uh ackthually, it wasn’t 25,000 Gazans dead, it was merely 22,000. Get your facts straight.”

2) “I wish it was a million.”

The consequences of not sending aid would be a much quicker end to the war and significantly fewer dead in the aftermath. This also generalizes to many other conflicts, particularly in Africa, where warfare is economically possible only because of Western aid. The only reason to send aid is if you don't think the Gazan government should be wholly destroyed, or if you think it would be advantageous to keep the war going for some reason.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #6292 on: March 01, 2024, 11:41:20 AM »

The last piece of fake Hamas-fabricated outrage propaganda was already a while ago, so I suppose it was time for something new again. Gladly consumed by the 'Western, enlightened, liberal' target audience, of course, with no questions asked.
Call it propaganda as much as you want, but no amount of "well aktually they deserved it..." by Vosem or the other rabid Pro-Israelis can change the fact, as of 9 AM CST on March 1st, that scores of people are now lying dead because the IDF had shot people desperately trying to get food.
No, this is exactly the propaganda. This didn't happen.
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« Reply #6293 on: March 01, 2024, 12:11:07 PM »
« Edited: March 01, 2024, 12:15:45 PM by GeneralMacArthur »

I waited a little while to comment on this because I was hoping more evidence would come out one way or another.  But it hasn't.

The Palestinian side is claiming Israel opened fire on a crowd of people and killed over 100, just like the Las Vegas shootings or the Boston Massacre (they're trying to brand this as "The Flour Massacre").  I've even seen claims that people were fired on with tanks (which would surely kill more than 100) or run over by tanks and bulldozers.  I've seen claims that there are photos and videos of bodies riddled with bullet holes.

But none of this has come up.  The only piece of evidence people keep posting is a dark shaky-cam video where you can hear gunfire, and then a bunch of pictures in daylight of dead bodies that bear no evidence of gunshot wounds or of being mangled and crushed under tank treads.  And of course you have the usual testimony of doctors at Gazan hospitals who have proven repeatedly to be liars in the past and are therefore not reliable witnesses.

None of this contradicts the Israeli story, which is remarkably plausible and has evidence to back it up.  One thing that's particularly convincing to me regarding the Israeli side is the fact that this all took place at 4:30 AM when it was pitch black outside (you can see this in the video footage).  A pitch-black night, a massive throng of people swarming trucks, panic and chaos -- and Israel has posted satellite footage of what is undeniable a stampede.  Are we saying nobody was trampled to death in a stampede of tens of thousands of people in the pitch black of night?  Are we saying nobody was run over by big heavy food trucks trying to plow their way through a crowd?  It's very tough to tell from the footage Israel posted whether anyone died under a truck, but it's very clear that people swarmed the trucks, and that the trucks (which were not driven by Israelis) were still trying to move through the crowd.

Now let's talk about why Israel opened fire.  Israel says it opened fire to try and protect the trucks and their own military positions.  In video footage from the next morning we can see the carcasses of several overturned and stripped-bare trucks.  How did those trucks get that way?  What fate befell their drivers?  And how did the other trucks get out?  This seems like an entirely plausible justification.  As for the Israeli military positions, I've seen a lot of posts about how Israel "doesn't want to be faced with the reality of what they've done" or "fired on starving people who were just begging for food", and I'm reminded of the Afghanistan withdrawal, when Afghan civilians amassed at an American military position, and the Americans didn't open fire.  Turned out one of the "civilians" was an ISIS fighter with a suicide vest, and nearly 200 people were killed, including thirteen U.S. soldiers.  So firing warning shots, and then shooting at people's legs when that fails, seems totally plausible to me.

So all-in-all, and I really try not to be subconsciously biased towards Israel in things like this because Israel has lied and done awful things in the past, but in this incident it does seem pretty likely that Israel is telling the truth.  What evidence we do have supports Israel's version of events, the Palestinian claims that hundreds of people were massacred with guns and tanks has not been supported by any physical evidence that ought to be trivial to come by, and the story has since spiraled out of control with tons of people online or in Hamas-aligned fake news outlets like Al-Jazeera and Middle East Eye (you should look up MEE's wiki page, they keep their owner secret because it's likely Hamas) just flat-out making things up to try and embellish their way to the most sympathetic possible story.
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« Reply #6294 on: March 01, 2024, 12:58:01 PM »

So here's what happened: Hamas has (according to Israel) been eliminated in the northern Gaza Strip, including Gaza City, meaning that one would imagine that Israel would be able to distribute abundant food in this region with relatively little safety risk. Despite this, Palestinians in Gaza City were so incredibly hungry, presumably due to a lack of food, that they stampeded food aid being distributed there. IDF soldiers felt threatened by this, and their response was to open fire on the crowd, which the incumbent national security minister praised them for. Between the stampede and the live fire, 100 Palestinians were killed and 700 were wounded. And I'm supposed to care if the live fire or stampede caused the lion's share of the deaths?

Sorry, but I don't care. The fact that it even got to the point where a stampede like this was possible is a result of an Israeli war effort that has consistently failed to protect Palestinian civilians, and the response to the stampede from the IDF and Ben-Gvir, irrespective of how many of the deaths it directly caused, is yet more proof that Israel is currently a rogue state which cannot be trusted to uphold jus in bello.
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« Reply #6295 on: March 01, 2024, 01:00:57 PM »

The last piece of fake Hamas-fabricated outrage propaganda was already a while ago, so I suppose it was time for something new again. Gladly consumed by the 'Western, enlightened, liberal' target audience, of course, with no questions asked.
Call it propaganda as much as you want, but no amount of "well aktually they deserved it..." by Vosem or the other rabid Pro-Israelis can change the fact, as of 9 AM CST on March 1st, that scores of people are now lying dead because the IDF had shot people desperately trying to get food.
No, this is exactly the propaganda. This didn't happen.

On the one side we have video evidence and witness testimony backed up by everyone from the media (at least those who bothered to report it) to even Israelis and government officials taking pride in the slaughter

on the other we have military propagandists for one side who have done nothing but tell the most absurd, blatant lies for the entire length of this war, up to and including holding up a calendar and calling it a list of terrorist leaders

"Hmm, everyone says the Germans are committing war crimes but that's just propaganda because Herr Göring says otherwise"



When the Tsar's soldiers opened fire on an unarmed crowd of protesters on Bloody Sunday 1905 even the most ardent monarchists didn't have the gall to say "actually some portion of the protesters were trampled to death and didn't die directly from gunfire, therefore the Russian Army bears no responsibility".

Again, the Israelis have claimed to have had full control over northern Gaza for months. That there is no humanitarian safe zone to speak of for aid distribution by now is precisely because inflicting suffering and starvation on the civilian population is the whole point, something that Israeli military officials have admitted and which Israel defenders here (except Vosem lol) totally refuse to acknowledge. It's the same reason anti-Netanyahu protesters face rubber bullets and West Bank protesters face real bullets while the protesters blocking the entry of humanitarian aid miraculously face no obstacles from the authorities whatsoever.
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« Reply #6296 on: March 01, 2024, 01:40:30 PM »

There's some truth to this (I think many people within the AfD see things similarly to you), but from the perspective of Russian society, the main things that made Nazism so offensive, like a desire to conquer territories to the east of Germany, have been excised. (Diet soda is actually meaningfully different from regular soda -- there's no more sugar in it, and that was the main bad thing!) If Gaza 80 years from now is voting for "Diet Hamas", and Diet Hamas is equivocal-or-even-kinda-supportive of an Israeli war effort going on somewhere far from Gaza, I think that would mean a successful political solution had been implemented.

World War II was not fought because Germans were chafing under Russian occupation of territory that they had been disputing with them for decades. There's really no use in making this DDR comparison apart from "the Soviets bombed Germany really bad and Israel is bombing Gaza really bad."

Also, the Soviets did have some organic on the ground support in the postwar Soviet Occupation Zone from the self-avowed German communists and socialists who had opposed the Third Reich and been persecuted by Hitler's regime. These were the people who created the Socialist Unity Party and the DDR's bureaucracy. There is no comparable group of people in Gaza who share any ideological or other affinity with Israel whatsoever.

World War II was fought because the Germans felt particular land was within their ancestral patrimony which did not belong to the German state, and moreover because Germany felt bad that it had lost a prior war and now had to pay reparations to significantly wealthier states. This is extremely analogous to the Palestinian situation, where they feel that land which does not belong to them under the normal international system should, and they also feel bad because of previous defeats to wealthier nations. Appealing to 'indigeneity' is simply an attempt to obscure this.

This only applies to the areas Germany lost after World War I and sought to reclaim. Lebensraum was about expansionism. Nobody was saying they wanted to "return" to Ukraine because their ancestors had been wrongfully displaced from there at an earlier date. It was about wanting to settle those areas with German people and either displace/exterminate or culturally assimilate the native population.

Fighting World War II over grievances from World War I is a very different animal from a conflict that has been going on for over 75 years.

Ordinary German and Russian people never hated each other on such a visceral level as Israelis and Palestinians hate each other. A majority of Israelis do not want Palestinians to have their own state. A majority of Palestinians do not want Israelis to have their own state. Germans and Russians never questioned the validity of Germany or Russia existing. Your plan to just find some collaborators and throw up some propaganda posters and nicely wrap things up in a few decades is woefully insufficient to what you're trying to do.
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« Reply #6297 on: March 01, 2024, 02:22:25 PM »

There's some truth to this (I think many people within the AfD see things similarly to you), but from the perspective of Russian society, the main things that made Nazism so offensive, like a desire to conquer territories to the east of Germany, have been excised. (Diet soda is actually meaningfully different from regular soda -- there's no more sugar in it, and that was the main bad thing!) If Gaza 80 years from now is voting for "Diet Hamas", and Diet Hamas is equivocal-or-even-kinda-supportive of an Israeli war effort going on somewhere far from Gaza, I think that would mean a successful political solution had been implemented.

World War II was not fought because Germans were chafing under Russian occupation of territory that they had been disputing with them for decades. There's really no use in making this DDR comparison apart from "the Soviets bombed Germany really bad and Israel is bombing Gaza really bad."

Also, the Soviets did have some organic on the ground support in the postwar Soviet Occupation Zone from the self-avowed German communists and socialists who had opposed the Third Reich and been persecuted by Hitler's regime. These were the people who created the Socialist Unity Party and the DDR's bureaucracy. There is no comparable group of people in Gaza who share any ideological or other affinity with Israel whatsoever.

World War II was fought because the Germans felt particular land was within their ancestral patrimony which did not belong to the German state, and moreover because Germany felt bad that it had lost a prior war and now had to pay reparations to significantly wealthier states. This is extremely analogous to the Palestinian situation, where they feel that land which does not belong to them under the normal international system should, and they also feel bad because of previous defeats to wealthier nations. Appealing to 'indigeneity' is simply an attempt to obscure this.

This only applies to the areas Germany lost after World War I and sought to reclaim. Lebensraum was about expansionism. Nobody was saying they wanted to "return" to Ukraine because their ancestors had been wrongfully displaced from there at an earlier date. It was about wanting to settle those areas with German people and either displace/exterminate or culturally assimilate the native population.

I mean, they felt that they had inherited an ancient right to invade eastwards based on the history of Drang nach Osten. Their mythology was not identical to that of the Palestinians, who feel that the ancient right they inherited was to exclude those insufficiently indigenous whether the government cooperated or not. (Also, while most of the invasions were not justified this way, Nazi Germany did directly annex Crimea, rather than giving it a military government like Ukraine, on the grounds that it was the ancestral home of the Crimean Goths and should therefore be an integral part of Germany, and they planned to deport the ethnically German population of South Tyrol to Crimea on the grounds of a weird racist theory that the South Tyroleans were the closest Germans to the ethnic Goths).

Fighting World War II over grievances from World War I is a very different animal from a conflict that has been going on for over 75 years.

Ordinary German and Russian people never hated each other on such a visceral level as Israelis and Palestinians hate each other.

Man, I promise you they did. Even besides WW2 stuff I was raised reading Nekrasov, and there's a very charming famous passage in Komu na Rusi zhit khorosho where the little girl's grandfather explains that he was sent to jail for burying an ethnic German alive. You are meant to feel sorry for him because, really, should that be a crime?

(Seriously, here is an excellent English translation. You should scroll to Chapter Three -- "Savyeli" -- and read it. It's picaresque and doesn't really require you to read any part of it before or after. Come back and tell me how much the Russians didn't hate ethnic Germans.)

A majority of Israelis do not want Palestinians to have their own state. A majority of Palestinians do not want Israelis to have their own state. Germans and Russians never questioned the validity of Germany or Russia existing.

This is false. Germany fought an enormous campaign, costing millions more in lives than any campaign in the Middle East (and a greater fraction of its own population), based on the idea that there should not be a Russian state. The Russian aims were vaguer (indeed they were merely on the level of "destroy the Nazis", without really thinking through how that might look), but there absolutely were senior statesmen among the Allies who advocated for no Germany at all existing after the war (though this usually meant statelets forcibly not allowed to unite -- in some ways West and East Germany fulfilled this suggestion).

Your plan to just find some collaborators and throw up some propaganda posters and nicely wrap things up in a few decades is woefully insufficient to what you're trying to do.

I disagree, fundamentally because I actually think the German-Russian conflict, where significantly greater fractions of the population died or fought, and where both countries were inherently much larger, inherently had much more human capital, and could never truly be deindustrialized or demilitarized, was a much harder problem. Nevertheless it was solved.
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emailking
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« Reply #6298 on: March 01, 2024, 02:54:07 PM »

Biden announces US airdrops of humanitarian assistance into Gaza

Quote
The United States will begin air dropping food aid to the people of Gaza, President Joe Biden announced Friday, as the humanitarian crisis deepens and Israel continues to resist opening additional land crossings to allow more assistance into the war-torn strip.

Speaking in the Oval Office, Biden said the US would be “pulling out every stop” to get additional aid into Gaza, which has been under heavy bombardment by Israel since the October 7 Hamas terror attacks.

Biden said aid was not flowing into Gaza quickly enough, and said he was working to broker an immediate ceasefire deal that would allow additional aid in.

The airdrops will provide some relief to those on the ground. However, their use is not a sustainable solution for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, as the method can only bring in a fraction of the amount of aid that could be transported into the enclave by trucks.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/01/politics/biden-airdrops-assistance-gaza/index.html
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #6299 on: March 01, 2024, 03:23:53 PM »

Biden announces US airdrops of humanitarian assistance into Gaza

Quote
The United States will begin air dropping food aid to the people of Gaza, President Joe Biden announced Friday, as the humanitarian crisis deepens and Israel continues to resist opening additional land crossings to allow more assistance into the war-torn strip.

Speaking in the Oval Office, Biden said the US would be “pulling out every stop” to get additional aid into Gaza, which has been under heavy bombardment by Israel since the October 7 Hamas terror attacks.

Biden said aid was not flowing into Gaza quickly enough, and said he was working to broker an immediate ceasefire deal that would allow additional aid in.

The airdrops will provide some relief to those on the ground. However, their use is not a sustainable solution for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, as the method can only bring in a fraction of the amount of aid that could be transported into the enclave by trucks.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/01/politics/biden-airdrops-assistance-gaza/index.html

I'd imagine the Israelis would want to inspect. They seem to be somewhat arbitrary on what they're allowing in:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/01/middleeast/gaza-aid-israel-restrictions-investigation-intl-cmd/index.html
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