Israel-Gaza war

[jaichind]

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Thank you for illustrating that Democrats clearly support Israel by a margin of 62-38, which combined with the even more robust support among Republicans, clearly shows why Biden turning on Israel as the activist fringe demands would be both immoral and electoral malpractice.

[Meclazine for Israel]

IDF has been busy.

Hamasa Gaza Brigades Eliminated

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0sEW3QtEnO/

They have good intelligence on who they are chasing.

[MT Treasurer]

Didn’t see this posted yet, but here’s an extensive article that provides insight into how Israel is waging psychological warfare in Gaza. It distinguishes between "tactical targets," "underground targets," "power targets" and "family homes", noting that Israel has disproportionately attacked targets which fall into the last two categories in order to destroy civil society in Gaza. It also notes that the Israeli army is keeping track of the number of civilians likely to be killed in every attack on any particular type of target and relying extensively on AI in "mass-generating" targets.

As always, take this with a dose of salt as the sources (mostly members of Israel's intelligence community) are anonymous, but you don’t really even need this article to realize that the main point here is to break the morale of the entire population and to make the place virtually unlivable, essentially forcing Gaza's civilians to leave in what obviously amounts to ethnic cleansing.

“If they would tell the whole world that the [Islamic Jihad] offices on the 10th floor are not important as a target, but that its existence is a justification to bring down the entire high-rise with the aim of pressuring civilian families who live in it in order to put pressure on terrorist organizations, this would itself be seen as terrorism. So they do not say it,” the source added.

Indeed, according to sources who were involved in the compiling of power targets in previous wars, although the target file usually contains some kind of alleged association with Hamas or other militant groups, striking the target functions primarily as a “means that allows damage to civil society.” The sources understood, some explicitly and some implicitly, that damage to civilians is the real purpose of these attacks.

“The perception is that it really hurts Hamas when high-rise buildings are taken down, because it creates a public reaction in the Gaza Strip and scares the population,” said one of the sources. “They wanted to give the citizens of Gaza the feeling that Hamas is not in control of the situation. Sometimes they toppled buildings and sometimes postal service and government buildings.”

As documented by Al Mezan and numerous images coming out of Gaza, Israel bombed the Islamic University of Gaza, the Palestinian Bar Association, a UN building for an educational program for outstanding students, a building belonging to the Palestine Telecommunications Company, the Ministry of National Economy, the Ministry of Culture, roads, and dozens of high-rise buildings and homes — especially in Gaza’s northern neighborhoods.

In one case discussed by the sources, the Israeli military command knowingly approved the killing of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in an attempt to assassinate a single top Hamas military commander.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

A war against Qatar would also result in the destruction of organizations funded by the Qatari government, including many "human rights organizations" that spread noxious ideologies in the West. I don't think bringing down the House of Thani would be a panacea for this stuff by any means, but it would certainly help.

The Israeli government was literally encouraging Qatar to fund Hamas.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Yeah, I don’t think bombing Qatar is a good idea actually.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Yeah, I don’t think bombing Qatar is a good idea actually.

It would feel good in the moment. But that can be said of a lot of the Israeli strategy in this war, and yet...

[CumbrianLefty]

All that quote from Vosem shows is that neocons remain dangerous hubristic maniacs.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

We can question Israel massively, but let's not pretend Hamas are good guys.

Name a few users who do that.

It is not an extant position on this forum, thankfully, but it is in all too many other leftist spaces, especially online.

Hamas is, of course, the Palestinian extreme right, and part of the singularly nasty nature of this war is precisely that it is being fought between two governments made up of murdering racist grifters.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, we all recall the reactions of a certain sort of faux-leftist in the immediate aftermath of October 7 - "this is what REAL resistance looks like, all you liberal hand wringers!" - for all that some have tried to deny it subsequently (to the extent of at least attempting to hide the evidence in some cases)

[windjammer]

We can question Israel massively, but let's not pretend Hamas are good guys.

Name a few users who do that.

It is not an extant position on this forum, thankfully, but it is in all too many other leftist spaces, especially online.

Hamas is, of course, the Palestinian extreme right, and part of the singularly nasty nature of this war is precisely that it is being fought between two governments made up of murdering racist grifters.

I mean, it's really sad the high casualties. However I'm very much optimistic for the future. Both Hamas and Netanyahu are definitely going to be gone very soon

[rc18]

We can question Israel massively, but let's not pretend Hamas are good guys.

Name a few users who do that.

It is not an extant position on this forum, thankfully, but it is in all too many other leftist spaces, especially online.

Hamas is, of course, the Palestinian extreme right, and part of the singularly nasty nature of this war is precisely that it is being fought between two governments made up of murdering racist grifters.

In Israel the conduct of the war is overseen by a war cabinet - not the civil government - composed of Bibi and two more-liberal political opponents of his, Gantz and Gallant. Both of whom have been even more hardline than Bibi, who hesitated over launching the ground invasion. The war has huge public support across all parts of Israeli society. Who are you imagining would be any less hardline in prosecuting the war?

The neofascist left love to frame this as Bibi's war, with brave Hamas fighting against the "Nazi" Bibi , because it sounds a lot better (and less racist) than the reality that they are backing Hamas against pretty much all Israelis.

[Vosem]

All that quote from Vosem shows is that neocons remain dangerous hubristic maniacs.

(This might be my immediate association of the dismissive use of "neocon" with a particular style of American conservatism, but) the Trump Administration plan was to support a joint Saudi/UAE operation against Qatar, not to do it directly or anything. My guess is that it is very unlikely to happen as long as Biden is in power -- Biden after all literally designated Qatar as a major non-NATO ally -- but the likely make-up of a post-Bibi Israeli government, where Bennett is likely to either be PM or one of the most important ministers in the government, will be one that will will push other countries to strike Qatar.

The reason the Saudis and UAE are upset at Qatar is their funding of revolutionary movements in the Arab world -- extremely notably Gaddafi in his final days blamed his defeat not on NATO, but on Qatar -- and negative coverage of those regimes in Al Jazeera, and the reason the Israelis are upset with time is their funding of Hamas, but the reason the American right is upset with them is their funding of universities; we live in a world where actually changing the culture of universities is very hard for the American right, but starving them of resources is somewhat easier, and that might depend on the Qatari regime ceasing to exist.

I think, even more generally, Trump has almost certainly given the green-light for military action against Qatar once, media tied to Israel have become radically more hostile to it in a short period of time, and this is a long-standing goal of Saudi foreign policy. My prediction is that a return of Trump (...or really, any Republican, and perhaps certain non-Biden Democrats) to the White House would mean military action against Qatar, and they would deserve it.

(Even more generally, it would be righteous and morally correct for media organizations that have supported Palestinian liberationism to also be destroyed in warfare along with Hamas. It is doubtful that will happen to organizations located in the US, but it is likely the case that those headquartered in Qatar are within the reach of their opponents'.)

A war against Qatar would also result in the destruction of organizations funded by the Qatari government, including many "human rights organizations" that spread noxious ideologies in the West. I don't think bringing down the House of Thani would be a panacea for this stuff by any means, but it would certainly help.

The Israeli government was literally encouraging Qatar to fund Hamas.

Right; they were foolish to go along with it, not just because of the possibility of an attack on Israel, but because Qatari support for Muslim-Brotherhood-associated groups like Hamas has led all of their neighbors to hate them. Israel being a democracy, the government that lobbied for Qatar to do that will simply be consigned to history. Qatar not being a democracy, they will either continue to benefit from the disorganization of their enemies or -- in a Republican Administration -- they will be destroyed. They were apparently just lucky it didn't happen after Tillerson resigned in 2018, but they're now going to face a world where Israel and the Ameriright hate them much more than they did in 2018, and Saudi Arabia and the UAE don't hate them any less.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Vosem (R-Abu Dhabi)

[PSOL]

I’m not exactly going to be sad that one of the major sources of financing right wing islamists are going to be gone, but the Qatari people do have a right to self-determination and independence and clearly any new regime there is not going to be beneficial to anyone here in the United States.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Yeah, I don’t think bombing Qatar is a good idea actually.

It would feel good in the moment. But that can be said of a lot of the Israeli strategy in this war, and yet...

Well if the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE do bomb Qatar, no doubt the largest US Air Force base in the Middle East will be indispensable to such an operation; I wonder which country that base is located in!

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Yeah, I don’t think bombing Qatar is a good idea actually.

It would feel good in the moment. But that can be said of a lot of the Israeli strategy in this war, and yet...

Well if the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE do bomb Qatar, no doubt the largest US Air Force base in the Middle East will be indispensable to such an operation; I wonder which country that base is located in!

The US Central Command at Al Udeid Air Base should be very useful too. They can guide the US planes to take off from the Al Udeid Air Base and bomb the Qatari planes at the Al Udeid Air Base and then return to Al Udeid Air Base.

[Vosem]

Yeah, I don’t think bombing Qatar is a good idea actually.

It would feel good in the moment. But that can be said of a lot of the Israeli strategy in this war, and yet...

Well if the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE do bomb Qatar, no doubt the largest US Air Force base in the Middle East will be indispensable to such an operation; I wonder which country that base is located in!

The US Central Command at Al Udeid Air Base should be very useful too. They can guide the US planes to take off from the Al Udeid Air Base and bomb the Qatari planes at the Al Udeid Air Base and then return to Al Udeid Air Base.

Hey, Reagan (well, the Reagan-era US) bombed Philadelphia!

The US has signed off on one Qatar invasion plan in the recent past (2018); it will be much more motivated to do this in the near future. I don't know what the contingency plan regarding the base is, but it clearly exists and has existed for a while.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The US has signed off on one Qatar invasion plan in the recent past (2018)

Donald Trump signed off on this, egged on by his son-in-law, who in turn had been egged on by the Saudis and the UAE.

Because Trump and Kushner are reckless morons, they did not bother consulting any other part of the US government beforehand, and it was left to some Cabinet Secretaries to prevent a catastrophe. This example is one of a million reasons why it would be irreversibly calamitous for Trump to return to the Presidency.

It’s important to have rigorous policy processes with input from across government agencies. A medieval court system at the heart of executive power may “work” for countries like Saudi Arabia and the UAE (and Qatar), but it’s a bad fit for the US, in addition to being bad—period.

[Lord Halifax]

Yeah, I don’t think bombing Qatar is a good idea actually.

It would feel good in the moment. But that can be said of a lot of the Israeli strategy in this war, and yet...

Well if the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE do bomb Qatar, no doubt the largest US Air Force base in the Middle East will be indispensable to such an operation; I wonder which country that base is located in!

just annex Qatar, make it an unincorporated territory and offer the guest workers US citizenship which would easily result in Qatar having an American majority

[Meclazine for Israel]

It's like the fall of the Nazi regime in the final days.

The Demise of Hamas

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0vf6WgrpM7/

[jaichind]

I suspect these numbers are even higher for non-White youth.  I think the current war is exacerbating these trends.

[CumbrianLefty]

The US has signed off on one Qatar invasion plan in the recent past (2018)

Donald Trump signed off on this, egged on by his son-in-law, who in turn had been egged on by the Saudis and the UAE.

So in other words, "signing off" on it was effectively worthless - as I suspected.

[pppolitics]

RAFAH, Gaza Strip — Israel and the United States were increasingly isolated as they faced global calls for a cease-fire in Gaza, including a non-binding vote expected to pass at the United Nations later on Tuesday. Israel has pressed ahead with an offensive against Gaza’s Hamas rulers that it says could go on for weeks or months.

The war ignited by Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack into southern Israel has already brought unprecedented death and destruction to the impoverished coastal enclave, with more than 18,000 Palestinians killed, mostly women and minors, and over 80% of the population of 2.3 million having fled their homes.

[…]

https://time.com/6358201/israel-us-isolation-gaza-hamas-war-end/

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

And they still can't stop us.

No one can.