Israel-Gaza war

[OSR stands with Israel]

Oh pipe down Red Velvet. This is not the time or place for your inane campist ramblings. The entire world just witnessed a Muslim nation ethnically cleanse a white Christian population with shameful silence from the entire Western world. Please either pick up a book or go comment on some other issue where your lens is less myopic.

Lmao at the notion that Armenia is considered “White Western” for the West.

Armenia is more White than Israel

[soundchaser]

I don’t know why Israel would even invade Gaza on the ground when their government has clearly laid out the pretext to bomb it indiscriminately until it’s a wasteland. “We gave you 24 hours notice!” looks like cover for mass civilian casualties from an air raid.

[pppolitics]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

[GALeftist]

Oh pipe down Red Velvet. This is not the time or place for your inane campist ramblings. The entire world just witnessed a Muslim nation ethnically cleanse a white Christian population with shameful silence from the entire Western world. Please either pick up a book or go comment on some other issue where your lens is less myopic.

Lmao at the notion that Armenia is considered “White Western” for the West.

Well, yeah, if you define any nation inconvenient to your puerile worldview as non-Western post hoc, irrespective of its history or culture, then your IR model is bulletproof. Compelling stuff. You know, people might give you the time of day on this matter if your president, or indeed any "non-Western" nation, was doing anything more for the Palestinians than posting vaguely-worded appeals for peace on Twitter. As it stands, maybe you should go post the millionth thread about that new horribly designed BRICS currency or whatever and hope that we all forget that Western countries are not the only ones failing the Palestinians.

[Devout Centrist]

That's 24 hours more than their government gave Israeli citizens.

It's morally wrong to use the evil that others commit to justify yet more violence against unarmed civilians.

[GALeftist]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

They've been doing such a great job of that in the West Bank, haven't they! My understanding is that the enlightened and evenhanded rule of Israelis there has left Palestinians absolutely smitten with their settler neighbors. Gaza will most likely be "denazified" within weeks!

I mean come on. This dishonesty really irks me. Just say that you value Israeli lives over Palestinian lives.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

If there are zero people left in Gaza, then in a sense that's denazification.

[pppolitics]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

They've been doing such a great job of that in the West Bank, haven't they! My understanding is that the enlightened and evenhanded rule of Israelis there has left Palestinians absolutely smitten with their settler neighbors. Gaza will most likely be "denazified" within weeks!

I mean come on. This dishonesty really irks me. Just say that you value Israeli lives over Palestinian lives.

…and when anyone points a finger at Israel, it’s antisemitism

[Red Velvet]

Oh pipe down Red Velvet. This is not the time or place for your inane campist ramblings. The entire world just witnessed a Muslim nation ethnically cleanse a white Christian population with shameful silence from the entire Western world. Please either pick up a book or go comment on some other issue where your lens is less myopic.

Lmao at the notion that Armenia is considered “White Western” for the West.

Well, yeah, if you define any nation inconvenient to your puerile worldview as non-Western post hoc, irrespective of its history or culture, then your IR model is bulletproof. Compelling stuff. You know, people might give you the time of day on this matter if your president, or indeed any "non-Western" nation, was doing anything more for the Palestinians than posting vaguely-worded appeals for peace on Twitter. As it stands, maybe you should go post the millionth thread about that new horribly designed BRICS currency or whatever and hope that we all forget that Western countries are not the only ones failing the Palestinians.

Hahahahaha what exactly do you suggest non-Western countries to do with their mighty power? In order to save Palestine.

Gustavo Petro from Colombia had more incisive language and compared Israel attitude to Palestinians to what the Nazis said about the Jewish people. Result:

US slams Colombia president's remarks on Gaza

Western project has always been to destroy Palestine very much so. A good first step would be to recognize Palestine in the first place. What are the countries who don’t do it? Hmmmm let’s see…

map link - https://64-media-tumblr-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/64.media.tumblr.com/38dfd00f55e64ad4e40e459def8763cf/47fee557cf46711d-dd/s1280x1920/2686e3cbe3f753301ae81567e751be731a1bd540.png

I really wonder why this map has this color division. Such a mystery!

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Slightly dated map; Colombia, the UAE, Morocco, Sudan, and Bahrain should all be orange.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

It is worth remembering that much of the ethnic cleansing in World War II was committed against Germans who were all described as “Nazis” at the end of the war, regardless of who they actually sympathized with. There were mass rapes, mass killings and the systematic removal of Germans from places they had lived in for centuries.

Given this history, we should all be very suspicious when leaders of a country start throwing the term Nazi. When Putin uses it, he means total subjugation and ethnic cleansing. Will it mean something different from Israelis? I doubt it.

[GALeftist]

Hahahahaha what exactly do you suggest non-Western countries to do with their mighty power? In order to save Palestine.

Wait, is the world multipolar or not? The whole point of multipolarity is that other powers can contravene the United States. Either those other powers are abdicating their responsibility or we still live in a unipolar world. There’s no way out of this.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Oh pipe down Red Velvet. This is not the time or place for your inane campist ramblings. The entire world just witnessed a Muslim nation ethnically cleanse a white Christian population with shameful silence from the entire Western world. Please either pick up a book or go comment on some other issue where your lens is less myopic.

Lmao at the notion that Armenia is considered “White Western” for the West.

Well, yeah, if you define any nation inconvenient to your puerile worldview as non-Western post hoc, irrespective of its history or culture, then your IR model is bulletproof. Compelling stuff. You know, people might give you the time of day on this matter if your president, or indeed any "non-Western" nation, was doing anything more for the Palestinians than posting vaguely-worded appeals for peace on Twitter. As it stands, maybe you should go post the millionth thread about that new horribly designed BRICS currency or whatever and hope that we all forget that Western countries are not the only ones failing the Palestinians.

Hahahahaha what exactly do you suggest non-Western countries to do with their mighty power?

Gustavo Petro from Colombia had more incisive language and compared Israel attitude to Palestinians to what the Nazis said about the Jewish people. Result:

US slams Colombia president's remarks on Gaza

Western project has always been to destroy Palestine very much so. A good first step would be to recognize Palestine in the first place. What are the countries who don’t do it? Hmmmm let’s see…


I really wonder why this map has this color division. Such a mystery!

This is only cause the INC dominated Indian politics prior to 2014(Vajpayee's tenure was a coalition government but still he made India less Pro Palestine). Many Indian Liberals are complaining about Modi's stance on this :


https://thewire.in/diplomacy/rooting-for-israel-not-a-good-word-about-palestine-modi-is-upending-indian-foreign-policy

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s support for Israel after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said his country is at war with Hamas following the massive attack on Israel contradicts India’s long-standing foreign policy of  solidarity with the Palestinian cause. By supporting only Israel and not the Palestinian people who are now being relentlessly bombed in Gaza, and not even making a token appeal for restraint and a ceasefire, he negated the vision of support to the Palestinian cause articulated by Mahatma Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru when India was fighting for freedom. That vision was articulated by successive prime ministers from Nehru to Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

By the way, I have nothing against ordinary people using this term to describe Hamas. Politicians are a different matter entirely. They are supposed to be calculated and diplomatic, they are public representatives. If some people or group is described as Nazi in context of a conflict and the side using that term is going on the offense, uhhh, sounds like a pretext for shredding international law.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Slightly dated map; Colombia, the UAE, Morocco, Sudan, and Bahrain should all be orange.

Mexico has also recognized Palestine.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1712811314299490353?s=20

Dangerous rhetoric on the precipice of invasion

He just said that everything Hamas did was justified. (He's wrong, and what he's describing is a war crime, no matter who carries it out or how much "warning" they have, but that's what he's saying.)

[OSR stands with Israel]

It is worth remembering that much of the ethnic cleansing in World War II was committed against Germans who were all described as “Nazis” at the end of the war, regardless of who they actually sympathized with. There were mass rapes, mass killings and the systematic removal of Germans from places they had lived in for centuries.

Given this history, we should all be very suspicious when leaders of a country start throwing the term Nazi. When Putin uses it, he means total subjugation and ethnic cleansing. Will it mean something different from Israelis? I doubt it.

The Way Russia uses the term Nazis is very different than how most of the world define it. Russia defines Nazi as enemies of Russia while most of the world defines them as an ideology that primarily believes in the genocide of Jews.

[MasterJedi]

It is worth remembering that much of the ethnic cleansing in World War II was committed against Germans who were all described as “Nazis” at the end of the war, regardless of who they actually sympathized with. There were mass rapes, mass killings and the systematic removal of Germans from places they had lived in for centuries.

Given this history, we should all be very suspicious when leaders of a country start throwing the term Nazi. When Putin uses it, he means total subjugation and ethnic cleansing. Will it mean something different from Israelis? I doubt it.

The Way Russia uses the term Nazis is very different than how most of the world define it. Russia defines Nazi as enemies of Russia while most of the world defines them as an ideology that primarily believes in the genocide of Jews.

That’s the way conservatives use it, it’s why nobody can be like Nazis since they support Israel but are in support of killing a different group. So that definition is still wrong, along with the right’s belief that it’s a liberal ideology.

[Vosem]

By the way, I have nothing against ordinary people using this term to describe Hamas. Politicians are a different matter entirely. They are supposed to be calculated and diplomatic, they are public representatives. If some people or group is described as Nazi in context of a conflict and the side using that term is going on the offense, uhhh, sounds like a pretext for shredding international law.

It is an argument for applying a different set of norms to be sure: customary international law is to some extent that annexation is justified if a nation has attacked you and occupied your territory first, as shown by international recognition of the modern borders of Poland. (This is part of the Israeli position for why the annexation of the Golan Heights is legal, since the post-1948 boundary had Syria occupying significant areas which were west of the original Mandate boundary, and so counts as an act of aggression.) Of course Israel never recognized a Palestinian state as existing at all de jure.

It is worth remembering that much of the ethnic cleansing in World War II was committed against Germans who were all described as “Nazis” at the end of the war, regardless of who they actually sympathized with. There were mass rapes, mass killings and the systematic removal of Germans from places they had lived in for centuries.

Given this history, we should all be very suspicious when leaders of a country start throwing the term Nazi. When Putin uses it, he means total subjugation and ethnic cleansing. Will it mean something different from Israelis? I doubt it.

The Way Russia uses the term Nazis is very different than how most of the world define it. Russia defines Nazi as enemies of Russia while most of the world defines them as an ideology that primarily believes in the genocide of Jews.

The fundamental crime of the Axis Powers in WWII was aggression -- trying to conquer territories that did not belong to them under international law -- although the Nazis obviously also committed to genocide, and even prioritized carrying out genocide over other political goals. ('Nazi' itself also entails a belief in racial superiority for Germans.) The analogy to Hamas is that they also behave aggressively towards established states and also prioritize genocide over other political goals. It is also that they seem likely to fight to the end rather than accept an unconditional surrender.

It is true that many Germans were victims of war crimes perpetrated by the Allied Powers. This does not detract from the legitimacy of the postwar borders or final postwar settlement; as I have underscored in parts of eastern Germany Victory Day remains a holiday that people (ethnic Germans!) celebrate. The analogy is meant to underscore that a defeat for Hamas would be a sufficiently good thing for the world that future Palestinians will be justified in celebrating it even if Israel's conduct of the upcoming war is very poor.

Perhaps my moral compass is shot here; back in the day my grandparents gave me Ehrenburg as assigned reading. (Both his poetry -- some of which exists in English translation and is quite striking -- and later letters to ethnic Germans justifying it, which I am not sure exist in English translation.) My position is that, at least as wartime propaganda aimed at soldiers, language that would scan as 'dehumanizing' is probably fine so long as you don't actually tell them to commit or justify war crimes, which Ehrenburg very much did not. I am not very concerned about very aggressive 2010s Ukrainian "anti-Nazi" rhetoric either, although I actually don't think genocide is particularly a goal of the Russian state.

[Aurelius2]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

[Estrella]

Sorry to interrupt your argument, but Hamas' call for civillians to stay in the north of Gaza doesn't seem to be working.

https://twitter.com/kann_news/status/1712766354321813898

After the message from the IDF, Gazans evacuate their homes and move to the south of the Gaza Strip | Documentation @nurityohanan Photo: Reuters

[pppolitics]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis stole German land?

Oh, wait!

[Silent Hunter]

Some of their ancestors would have been in the Red Army though. After what the Germans did in the USSR, the desire for revenge was very real.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Was overtly removed from the charter in 2017.

[Vosem]

Calling it Genocide is insane. Israel is planning to invade Gaza and its not common place for nations to tell when they will invade but they are doing so

OSR you are either incorrigibly dim or a willing mark. This is obviously not going to be a normal invasion. Israel is going to raze Gaza to the ground; this is nothing more than a fig leaf.

Israel will have to invade, occupy and then basically denazify Gaza

Israelis steal their land and you call the “Nazis”.

How ironic.

Hamas, like the Nazis, explicitly seeks to exterminate every last Jew. It's right there in their charter! They are shockingly open about this.

Does anyone remember when the Israelis steal German land?

Oh wait!

Israel did not steal land; the Israelis immigrated, formed a government, decolonized, and then became a majority (basically in that order). Israel exists because of immigration policy, not conquest (except arguably in the Golan Heights).

Saying "all immigrants are settlers, kill them" is normally something I associate with the far-right, for some reason except when it comes to the Mandate of Palestine. No, we should not all live in hermit kingdoms, and forming new societies is good. Settlement (organized immigration from relatively wealthy to relatively poor countries to start new societies), so long as it is not accompanied by conquest, is basically good. Unfortunately the problem here is that the Palestinians did not get buy-in, because the immigration policy was set by the British Mandate rather than by a democratic Palestinian government, but that does not negate it or give Palestinian liberationists a reason to ethnically cleanse the area, much as the ethnically-Albanian majority in Kosovo only exists because of Ottoman rule but that is not a valid reason for Serbia to ethnically cleanse the area.