Israel-Gaza war

[Hollywood]

I don't think you guys understand what a complete elimination of Hamas and it's linkeages would entail.

Yes.  But that's not what you said.  You wrote, "Marco called for the genocide of Gaza".  That was a fabrication. Then you tried to justify this fabrication with a a tweet from some guy that was lying through exaggeration.  Now you're gaslighting.  

What? Rubio responded to a question on how to eliminate Hamas in Gaza without a genocide, and his response was Hamas must be eliminated no matter what, essentially calling for a genocide.

Yeah.  That's been my point the whole time.  You said, "Rubio called for the eradication of Gazans". That was false.      

I don't know why it's so hard for people to admit they made an error.  You made an error.  It happens.  Just stop gaslighting me.  

[dead0man]

This is not how the world works, what you are advocating for is that you're fine with a mass death toll, just let me know in months from now how that pans out. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

oh I'd rather it not happen, I'd much rather have Hamas surrender or the non-Hamas in Gaza take care of their own mess, but Hamas already made their bed, they will sleep (and a long sleep at that) in it no matter what my (or your) opinion is.

[dead0man]

Showcasing civilizational cope since 1999

Hamas was formed in 1987, not '99

[Intell]

This is not how the world works, what you are advocating for is that you're fine with a mass death toll, just let me know in months from now how that pans out. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

oh I'd rather it not happen, I'd much rather have Hamas surrender or the non-Hamas in Gaza take care of their own mess, but Hamas already made their bed, they will sleep (and a long sleep at that) in it no matter what my (or your) opinion is.

I'm fully aware that's what will happen but I don't think we should be cheering that on, but whatever, apparently believing in the value of human life makes you pro-hamas or pro-apartheid.

[NOVA Green]

In Israel there is talk about RZ and Otzma having to leave the government for the sake of national unity, but I would actually argue it's the Haredim who need to go now. You don't deserve to decide on the (way of) deployment of the army if you fight vehemently to have everyone in the country serve in it except for your own community.

Yeah, I've been wondering if this will be the moment that would finally force the Haredim to do their fair share to defend and support the country that protects their way of life. I agree with them that Torah study should be part of the fabric of a Jewish state, but certainly not at the expense of literally everything else. Their kollelim don't defend themselves.

Military needs are much higher than they were 3 days ago, and Israel can't afford to have 20% of its Jewish population not contributing.

So you want Israel to be even more of a theocracy than it already is.

Jewish men are commanded to study Torah daily. A large proportion of Israeli Jews are religiously observant and follow this and other commands. Would you prefer to ban them from studying their holy texts, somehow?

The more you post, the more I realize you have a (very America-brained) child's understanding of this conflict, and of this part of the world more broadly.

This is absolutely silly talk (bolded quote).

You make Israel sound like a theocracy (which it is not).

I suspect you might have been intending to make another point altogether, but perhaps from the perspective of American Evangelical Christians who believes Jews should be converted to Jesus, this might make sense.

My Brother-in-Law, married to my older Sister, grew up in a Liberal Catholic background, but converted to Orthox-Judaism (Long story short), and would spend a significant amount of time attending their local Shul.

Sorry, Americans Jews, let alone Israeli Jews are completely done with the Christian Fundi attempt to "Convert Jews to Jesus".

Maybe I completely misinterpreted where you are coming from when you appear to be promoting the relaxation of laws protecting Ultra-Orthodox from IDF service?

I am a Jew.

This command comes from God through the Torah, not from any temporal power.

I am not particularly observant by any measure but I recognize that this mitzvah exists.

My point is that Torah study will be widespread in Israel whether the state promotes it or not.

Thank You for sharing.

Although US Foreign Policy naturally should not be dictated by any Ethnic American immigrant formations who have after all helped make us the country we are, it is certainly true that many of us still have connections and affiliations with our ancestors from whatever country of origin.

Really happy to hear you are not part of the "Jews for Jesus Brigade", and sounds like then you are more of a Secular or Reformist Jew, as opposed to the Orthodox wing of the family who go to Temple on a regular basis, with the exception of a Niece and Nephew.

Naturally many Americans of Jewish-American roots are deeply conflicted with what we see now occurring live on Television in the Middle East, but attempting to create moral high ground, while quoting evangelical style stuff in your sig, might create certain doubts, among those of us more conflicted.

Apologies sir....

[Hollywood]

This is not how the world works, what you are advocating for is that you're fine with a mass death toll, just let me know in months from now how that pans out. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

oh I'd rather it not happen, I'd much rather have Hamas surrender or the non-Hamas in Gaza take care of their own mess, but Hamas already made their bed, they will sleep (and a long sleep at that) in it no matter what my (or your) opinion is.

I'm fully aware that's what will happen but I don't think we should be cheering that on, but whatever, apparently believing in the value of human life makes you pro-hamas or pro-apartheid.

Oh... Do you think we should be dancing and celebrating like the Gazans when the IDF takes those lives?  Or should we show some restraint?  Cause that s##t happened.   I don't anybody that's cheering for the death of civilians.  Israel has warned them to get out of the way cause those Hamas Terrorist will be eradicated.  It's sad that Hamas will be using those civilians as human shields.  

[NOVA Green]

Haaretz blames Netanyahu for the conflict with Gaza.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000

Apologies for the fact it's behind a paywall.

.

Was about ready to quote from the Opinion Piece, but after getting my free registration need to choose how many free articles I want to run with over the next month.

Instead we see front page article that over "1,500 Hamas militant bodies found in Israel".

"Over 900 Israelis killed, 2,400 wounded".

Also Biden will be speaking Tomorrow at 1 PM Eastern Time, quite possibly to address the status of American Hostages currently held by Hamas.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-10/ty-article-live/900-israelis-killed-2-400-wounded-in-war-with-hamas/0000018b-17bd-d465-abbb-17bf23000000

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Haaretz blames Netanyahu for the conflict with Gaza.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000

Apologies for the fact it's behind a paywall.

.

Was about ready to quote from the Opinion Piece, but after getting my free registration need to choose how many free articles I want to run with over the next month.

Instead we see front page article that over "1,500 Hamas militant bodies found in Israel".

"Over 900 Israelis killed, 2,400 wounded".

Also Biden will be speaking Tomorrow at 1 PM Eastern Time, quite possibly to address the status of American Hostages currently held by Hamas.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-10/ty-article-live/900-israelis-killed-2-400-wounded-in-war-with-hamas/0000018b-17bd-d465-abbb-17bf23000000

On the topic of hostages: I've heard there is an unfortunate, sordid tradition of the taking of foreigner prisoners and foreign hostage-taking not being vorboten in these sorts of clashes in the Middle East, that this also happened in Lebanon in the 70s and 80s.
In any case, it's yet another thing for Biden to attend to. Hamas probably net benefits from this, which I've heard is a tried-and-tested Iran classic, but they are not helping themselves in the West with this. As I have said previously, their street cred with anti-Israel Arabs matters more to them than PR in Western, non-Arab countries.

[PSOL]

Showcasing civilizational cope since 1999

Hamas was formed in 1987, not '99

You just don’t get it dead0

[Hnv1]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1711624711354871857?s=20

Panic on the streets of Gaza
Panic on the streets of Rafah
I wonder to myself
"Could life ever be sane again?"

[Meclazine for Israel]

And, it begins for the day. The sound of the Israeli jets is very ominous, because you know, shortly after their arrival, the bang is coming.

Explosions constant throughout the day

9:45:30
9:58:30
Buzzer - 12:28:30
12:30:00

Gaza Live Stream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcPPJqKsTR8

From yesterday, the missiles had a periodicity of roughly 10 minutes in between strikes.

Another video with maps about the situation that occurred in Israel.

Siege of Gaza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOhwqQN1mLk

[Bacon King]

12% of Gazans have left since Hamas seized power in the Strip; they are free to leave to wherever will take them. (My guess is Hamas probably fights emigration in some way, but not with enough success to stop 12% of Gazans from leaving.)

the residents of the Gaza Strip are not even remotely "free to leave" and the fact that so many of its residents have fled - despite the huge hurdles they must overcome in order to do so - only underlines just how desperate their situation has been since 2007.

I encourage you to read the article you linked here. As it states:

Some Palestinians depart for medical treatment without returning. Others pay bribes of thousands of dollars to Hamas police at the Rafah border crossing with Egypt. Sums as high as $10,000 dollars and more are paid to smugglers who take Palestinians by boat to Spain via Egypt and North Africa, or to Greece or Turkey, which are closer. Turkey is popular destination because the cost of a visa is only $150 and Turkey has a large Palestinian community of around 30,000.

The Palestinians are fleeing a bleak economic situation. Gaza’s unemployment rate stands at 74%. Those who manage to find a job earn an average yearly salary of $250. That puts 80% of Gaza’s population under the poverty line. The CIR report also noted a significant increase in suicide among youth.

I trust I don't need to spell it out for you here that the vast and overwhelming majority of Gazans are quite literally imprisoned within the Strip. Trapped, by both the blockade and the Hamas dictatorship.

like even if you're lucky enough to emigrate legally without having to give Hamas a bribe (by knowing the right people who can pull the right strings, i guess) the cheapest visa option is a whopping 60% the average annual salary - of the 26% who even EARN a salary.

Some open air prison that people leave routinely and which bombs its surroundings!

The Gaza Strip is an "open-air prison" for the two million civilians trapped inside.

Israel is the warden in this analogy but Hamas isn't an inmate - they are the guards

[Meclazine for Israel]

The Gaza Strip is an "open-air prison" for the two million civilians trapped inside.

That is correct. During the invasion process, the border walls will actually hinder Israeli soldiers as they only have one exit point at the Northern end of Gaza. The border will cause them problems (no egress) during urban warfare in the ground incursion phase.

This is going to get messy.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The other issue with attempts to destroy hamas is they're probably the most likely to survive a siege - even ignoring the fact a lot of the senior cadre don't even live in gaza (including the leader, who lives in Qatar), the hamas local leadership will be the ones with stockpiles. It will be civilians that starve.

[Intell]

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1711405575211282769

Don't know if this is true, but holy the incompetence if it is.

[Meclazine for Israel]

The Israeli music festival was the first target of Hamas that came under military attack.

SuperNova Festival

https://youtu.be/MboCeXPTEO0?t=1078

Of ~3,000 attendees, 260 dead. Unknown numbers kidnapped (~30-50)

On Saturday 6am, Oct 7, after hearing gunfire and rockets, a lot of people at the festival immediately ran to their cars and fled. The people left behind were subject to a massacre.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/music-festival-revelers-israeli-desert-became-victims-hamas-militants-rcna119394



Concertgoers were gunned down in their cars as they tried to leave the Supernova Music Festival in the Negev desert in Israel. (AFP News Agency)

When the road out was blockaded by gunmen and other cars stopped on the road, many Israeli's fled from their cars and ran into the fields.

People fearfully ran for their lives, with full knowledge that a large scale massacre was underway. According to survivors, they were hunted like rabbits - chased and shot dead.

The Las Vegas Shooting involved a single 64 y.o. gunman who shot into the crowd of a country music festival killing 60 people. That was horrific to watch and traumatised not only Las Vegas, but the entire USA, if not the World.

At this music festival, 260 people were shot dead.

It is beyond imagination.

[Hollywood]

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1711405575211282769

Don't know if this is true, but holy the incompetence if it is.

There's no evidence that it happened.  It's from an Anonymous Source that was supposedly told about a conversation (hearsay upon hearsay), and Israel says its disinformation disseminated to divide the country.  The Egyptian claimed something "big" was going to happen in Gaza. 

[Bacon King]

There's no evidence that it happened.  It's from an Anonymous Source that was supposedly told about a conversation (hearsay upon hearsay), and Israel says its disinformation disseminated to divide the country.  The Egyptian claimed something "big" was going to happen in Gaza. 

The information comes from this report by the Associated Press. As a wire service with a strong reputation to uphold, the AP has very strict rules for using anonymous sources and is generally speaking very reliable with this sort of thing (and they certainly have no motive to "divide the country")

[Hollywood]

Holy s##t.  Hamas cut the heads off babies.  Wait until you see those pictures.  40 Dead Babies and counting. 
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war

[Hollywood]

There's no evidence that it happened.  It's from an Anonymous Source that was supposedly told about a conversation (hearsay upon hearsay), and Israel says its disinformation disseminated to divide the country.  The Egyptian claimed something "big" was going to happen in Gaza. 

The information comes from this report by the Associated Press. As a wire service with a strong reputation to uphold, the AP has very strict rules for using anonymous sources and is generally speaking very reliable with this sort of thing (and they certainly have no motive to "divide the country")

I practice law.  An anonymous source is not credible, particularly when they aren't contributing reliable information.  It's hearsay within hearsay.  John told me that Bill told Sam something big is about to happen.   Just cause the AP has low standards for evidence doesn't mean people should rely on it. 

And I never said the AP had a motive to divide the country.  Perhaps the anonymous source had a motive to divide Israel.  That's why we don't rely on an anonymous source in court.  There is no opportunity  to test the credibility of the witness. 

[dead0man]

Holy s##t.  Hamas cut the heads off babies.  Wait until you see those pictures. 

Snowbigtot, Laki(ng) and the...ahem...others, agree that this is bad, but, ya know, settlers, blah blah, occupation blah blah, whataboutery.

[dead0man]

in news that will shock no one, Hamas leadership are big fat liars

[GALeftist]

There's no evidence that it happened.  It's from an Anonymous Source that was supposedly told about a conversation (hearsay upon hearsay), and Israel says its disinformation disseminated to divide the country.  The Egyptian claimed something "big" was going to happen in Gaza. 

The information comes from this report by the Associated Press. As a wire service with a strong reputation to uphold, the AP has very strict rules for using anonymous sources and is generally speaking very reliable with this sort of thing (and they certainly have no motive to "divide the country")

I practice law.  An anonymous source is not credible, particularly when they aren't contributing reliable information.  It's hearsay within hearsay.  John told me that Bill told Sam something big is about to happen.   Just cause the AP has low standards for evidence doesn't mean people should rely on it. 

And I never said the AP had a motive to divide the country.  Perhaps the anonymous source had a motive to divide Israel.  That's why we don't rely on an anonymous source in court.  There is no opportunity  to test the credibility of the witness. 

With respect, this is not a court of law, and you are therefore off base. The whole point of the press, including the AP, is that there are good reasons why the public might need information from sources who cannot divulge their identities. In these cases, a credible press organization, such as the AP, the NYT, or WaPo, will “lend” their credibility. A good example of this in action is Watergate, when testimony from someone called “Deep Throat” was rightly deemed credible thanks to WaPo. Absent that testimony, the public would never have learned key details regarding Watergate.

In this case, I suspect that the AP’s source is someone fairly high up in Israeli intelligence, or at the very least corroborated by someone fairly high up in Israeli intelligence. If their identity is divulged, the best case scenario is that they are fired and therefore can no longer act as a source. They and their family could very probably be subject to more serious reprisals, including death. For these reasons, the source might not be willing to work with the AP unless their identity is protected; if this is the case, the public still needs to know this information. Even if the source is willing to use their real name, though, the AP might have (rightly) judged that their utility as a source is too important to compromise.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Don't know if this is true, but holy the incompetence if it is.

There's no evidence that it happened.  It's from an Anonymous Source that was supposedly told about a conversation (hearsay upon hearsay), and Israel says its disinformation disseminated to divide the country.  The Egyptian claimed something "big" was going to happen in Gaza.  

I find it ridiculous that this grand planned attack went on invading into Israel, and no one intelligence anywhere knew anything. When this is all over, some Mossad leadership are going to be told by the country's leadership to go find another job. This is CIA 9/11-level intelligence failures by Mossad.

(I've seen one explanation of Hamas have gone to doing everything by courier, avoiding using electronic messaging means at all. Considering how tech-heavy modern-day American and Israeli intelligence are, it's a great way of going underneath if your adversary has no human intelligence. Compare and contrast how the U.S. were telling everyone for months the Russians would invade Ukraine and all their allies thinking it would never happen, compared to not a peep here. If that were the case of Hamas are intentionally not computerized, I would expect Egypt to have human intelligence inside Hamas if Egyptian intelligence was worth ten cents. Although Israel should run circles around Egypt and apparently had no idea what their top adversary were planning or doing. Even for tech intelligence though which Israel probably focused more on, you don't see missiles being moved around?)

In these cases, a credible press organization, such as the AP, the NYT, or WaPo, will “lend” their credibility. A good example of this in action is Watergate, when testimony from someone called “Deep Throat” was rightly deemed credible thanks to WaPo. Absent that testimony, the public would never have learned key details regarding Watergate.

Which with hindsight was not the journalistic slam dunk it was portrayed as for decades when the perpetrator was a guy upset he didn't get made FBI Director where Nixon rightfully wanted to take control of the FBI from the J. Edgar Hoovers of the world, so over a bureaucratic appointment sleight it brought down a whole presidency. Woodward and Bernstein got used as young naive reporters.

[Hollywood]

Holy s##t.  Hamas cut the heads off babies.  Wait until you see those pictures. 

Snowbigtot, Laki(ng) and the...ahem...others, agree that this is bad, but, ya know, settlers, blah blah, occupation blah blah, whataboutery.

Just letting everybody know that Hamas cut the heads off babies.  It wasn't about you or anyone else in the thread.