Israel-Gaza war

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Some posters here seem to agree with an unironic interpretation of Bob Dylan's "Neighborhood Bully:"

Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man
His enemies say he's on their land
They got him outnumbered about a million to one
He got no place to escape to, no place to run
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully he just lives to survive
He's criticized and condemned for being alive
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
He's wandered the earth an exiled man
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
He's always on trial for just being born
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it, and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he got no allies to really speak of
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one's command
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract that he signed was worth that what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothing, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits for feed
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
Running out the clock, time standing still
Neighborhood bully.

This isn't 1967 or 1973. Egypt and Jordan are entirely irrelevant here and Syria is a failed state. Israel is in no way outnumbered!

[kwabbit]

My hope is that Israel can fully assert control in Gaza swiftly, bring all Hamas members to justice, and establish a reasonable civilian administration for the people of Gaza.

This is the ideal outcome. I fear that realities on the ground will make such a resolution impossible, but I pray that that shall not be the case.

There is no civilian administration that is possible in Gaza that is friendly to Israel. Establishing rigged elections and hoping westerners buy it isn't gonna work.

Would a Fatah/PLO regime not be more peaceful with Israel than a Hamas regime? I don't what the outcome of a fair election would be, perhaps they might just elect Hamas so Israel could install Fatah undemocratically and it could govern in tandem with the West Bank.

[WalterWhite]

My hope is that Israel can fully assert control in Gaza swiftly, bring all Hamas members to justice, and establish a reasonable civilian administration for the people of Gaza.

This is the ideal outcome. I fear that realities on the ground will make such a resolution impossible, but I pray that that shall not be the case.

There is no civilian administration that is possible in Gaza that is friendly to Israel. Establishing rigged elections and hoping westerners buy it isn't gonna work.

Would a Fatah/PLO regime not be more peaceful with Israel than a Hamas regime? I don't what the outcome of a fair election would be, perhaps they might just elect Hamas so Israel could install Fatah undemocratically and it could govern in tandem with the West Bank.

Yes, as Fatah, unlike Hamas, is not a terrorist organization

[oldtimer]

Turning back to the War, it seems that Israel has another bad night.

Their missile defence can't cope with the volume of rockets.

How did Hamas produce all those rockets ?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-says-it-found-16-tons-rocket-making-substance-headed-turkey-gaza-2023-09-14/

[Vosem]

This is the wrong attitude. You need to actively work on peace. Or there won't be peace. It's basically negligent to not work on a long-lasting peace. Because if we get to a ceasefire or some kind of temporary peace, sooner or later conflict is bound to happen again. And again, and again and again. And even if Hamas is taken out, someone is going to take over out of the ruins of what is going to be the graveyard.

It's the same thing as with climate change. Postponing isn't good for anything, stop freezing conflicts because it makes peace impossible if nobody keeps working actively on peace which seems to be a trend... in later decades. How many long-lasting peaces have we seen since the cold war or especially fall of USSR? (regarding break-off states and so on)

Peace can happen the same way it did in South Africa: Hamas (or some broad 'Palestinian liberationism' party) can join a Likud-led (or broadly 'Israeli right' party) government, much like the National Party became a junior partner to the ANC. It can submit to a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, aid the Israeli right in its agenda, and reject its former beliefs not just in its rhetoric but deep in its soul.

When no one supports genocide, and when those who once did have cast off the parts of them that did so and rejected them, and Palestinian liberationism is left in the same dustbin as apartheid, then there will be peace.

My guess is that this is not very realistic; unlike the National Party, Hamas is not culturally close to movements which would encourage them to take these steps. In that case, warfare will continue until someone wins. In this particular conflict, the disparity of power, and the trend in the growth of the disparity of power, (and the trend in the growth of the disparity of allies), leave no doubt as to the outcome.

Amazing post. Absolutely love when you're on an entirely alien wavelength. The sun is an avocado.

Right, the actual current Palestinian liberation movement is both genocidal and dying, so it isn't going to do this. The only plausible alternatives seem to be occupation forever, which is bad for everyone, or Gaza becoming a new Dresden if the society is so ideologically radicalized that reoccupation is impossible.

Do you have a suggestion that isn't "let the genocide happen"? A solution that lets those evicted from their homes in 2004 back would be strongly preferred from the point of view of justice and fairness, though who knows how much we're caring about those.

[Alben Barkley]

We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, "Save me!" He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them.

This in the aftermath of the Yom Kippur War 50 years ago.

This time, however, I think the Palestinian militants not only won't have the Russians backing them, they also won't even have the support of the Middle Eastern states except Iran. They're truly f--ked.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, "Save me!" He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them.

This in the aftermath of the Yom Kippur War 50 years ago.

This time, however, I think the Palestinian militants not only won't have the Russians backing them, they also won't even have the support of the Middle Eastern states except Iran. They're truly f--ked.

And aren't you just salivating over the coming mass death?

[GeneralMacArthur]

I have yet to hear anyone propose a serious solution to stop Hamas attacks into Palestine.

As I've said before, it's extremely easy to sit in the peanut gallery and say "oh how dare you, oh how inhumane" to any proposed solution.  But the status quo is appallingly inhumane.  Unless you have an actual proposal for how to fix the status quo, you are advocating for its continuation.  So you are the one advocating for something appallingly inhumane.

The really sickening truth is that many people in this thread are OK with the status quo because they see it as acceptable that these Jews are getting killed.  They think they deserve it, or "it's the natural consequence of decolonization", or "this is what fighting your oppressors looks like", or whatever other idiotic excuse for being OK with genocide you can concoct.  Think I'm exaggerating?  Look at the warning posted at the top of the thread.  I've seen the deleted posts.  I've also seen many of the posts that haven't yet been deleted.

But there are also a lot of useful idiots who are willing to go along with the status quo simply because they're too cowardly to actually propose a real, practical, workable solution to the problem.  Should the Jews continue to suffer and die because of your cowardice?

Yes, I'd rather see a whole lot of people have to move across the border than see a whole lot of people get raped, murdered and killed.  If you're a decent person, you would as well.  So if you think this is a false choice, tell me about it.  If you think there's an alternative solution, tell me about it.  Because this attack is a paradigm shift.  Previously it was plausible to think Israel could continue the status quo of just keeping Hamas bottled up and crushed under foot, using the Iron Dome to shoot down all their rockets, using the IDF to beat back all their attacks, and no lives would be lost.  But that's clearly no longer true.  Hamas must go.  One way or another, Hamas must go.

[Vosem]

Palestine just reminded the entire world that their home is still a warzone, and just completely destroyed Israel’s reputation as a safe country to visit. The Israeli tourism industry is going to be dead by everyone but religious zealots and those connecting with family for a good while.

Had Fatah not have been in the way to side with Israel if there were a war in the West Bank, Palestine would have won this war. Abbas’s bantustan is the only thing blocking an end to this war. Good riddance the zealous Trump Administration finally put UNRWA’s money laundering scheme to the coffin.

All eyes are on what the supposed invasion of Gaza is going to look like, as if any other front opens up Israel will continue to get bloody and have territory be in jeopardy bit by bit. They could have ended this conflict in the 90s by recognizing Palestine but didn’t out of wanting the whole pie. Like Armenia and Cyprus before it, not reading the room has negative consequences.

Revealing that you view it as winning a war for Hamas to butcher innocent civilians, and as morally unacceptable for Israel to build walls to protect itself and kill those Hamas members in retaliation.

It is, already, a (coming) military defeat and political victory. The direct comparison that's been made repeatedly is to Tet.

Why would this military defeat be a political victory? As I laid out on AAD every prior Gaza conflict in the 2010s resulted in more sympathy for the Israelis (both in American public polling and in the positions of governments around the world/in the Middle East), and this time the reaction to the onset of the negative seems starkly more unfavorable towards the Palestinians, with enormous open demonstrations of support for Israel across western Europe.

I don't think there's actually been a political victory for the Palestinians of any kind since...uh...I guess the specifics of Barak's offer at Camp David in 2001? And there hasn't been a military victory in longer; if you don't count the other Arab states -- which you really shouldn't given how anti-Palestinian they were and are -- I think plausibly not since before the establishment of the State of Israel. I'm drawing a post-1930s blank.

[oldtimer]

My hope is that Israel can fully assert control in Gaza swiftly, bring all Hamas members to justice, and establish a reasonable civilian administration for the people of Gaza.

This is the ideal outcome. I fear that realities on the ground will make such a resolution impossible, but I pray that that shall not be the case.

Probably the ideal, but it seems unlikely that there would be the stomach for the sacrifices involved in re-occupying Gaza and installing a new government. If you do not want to flagrantly violate international humanitarian law and want to minimize civilian casualties (i.e. no "just flatten it"), that kind of house-to-house urban fighting would probably mean thousands of Israeli casualties. I might be wrong, it's hard to assess what the public would tolerate in the wake of something like this, but that may be too much to bear.

Lets make a quick estimate.

Gaza has a population of about 2 million which is very youthfull and beligerent, lets say Hamas can get 10% of the population in arms, that's 200k.

Knowing from the more recent Battle of Bakhmut, the Israelis would need to outnumber them, and it would take a very long time with a very high casualty rate.
Lets say 400k and a 40% death rate (typical for Bakhmut) = 160k dead soldiers.

Of course the IDF might be better than Wagner, but Hamas is no Russian army, and Gaza is much larger than Bakhmut.

That's why I think Gaza is a trap.

[WalterWhite]

This war will be the end of Hamas. We do not know HOW Hamas will be defeated, but we can be pretty confident it will be; it has not received very much international support, and Hamas is outnumbered over 5:1. HAMAS IS TOAST! When Hamas is defeated, peace will become much more likely.

[NOVA Green]

The United States is moving the USS Gerald Ford aircraft carrier and its accompanying warships (currently in the Mediterranean) towards Israel. It has a carrier strike group of 5000 soldiers and several aircrafts on deck. This has got to be extremely rare.

Thinking something like (200) fighter jets are on that Carrier.

Obviously this is more of a message to Iran than anyone else, since US is extremely unlikely to directly intervene in what is currently going on in Gaza & Southern Israel.

If Iran were to choose to mobilize their proxies from South Lebanon in a massive way, I would not be surprised if US military assets might be involved in combat operations.

Still Iran does not have direct control over Hezbollah military choices, but would imagine that they would be able to reign them in if it looks like Israeli and US Air assets will start directly targeting their  proxies, with after all the whole Saudi Arabia & Iranian peace deal over the war in Yemen.

[jojoju1998]

I have yet to hear anyone propose a serious solution to stop Hamas attacks into Palestine.

As I've said before, it's extremely easy to sit in the peanut gallery and say "oh how dare you, oh how inhumane" to any proposed solution.  But the status quo is appallingly inhumane.  Unless you have an actual proposal for how to fix the status quo, you are advocating for its continuation.  So you are the one advocating for something appallingly inhumane.

The really sickening truth is that many people in this thread are OK with the status quo because they see it as acceptable that these Jews are getting killed.  They think they deserve it, or "it's the natural consequence of decolonization", or "this is what fighting your oppressors looks like", or whatever other idiotic excuse for being OK with genocide you can concoct.  Think I'm exaggerating?  Look at the warning posted at the top of the thread.  I've seen the deleted posts.  I've also seen many of the posts that haven't yet been deleted.

But there are also a lot of useful idiots who are willing to go along with the status quo simply because they're too cowardly to actually propose a real, practical, workable solution to the problem.  Should the Jews continue to suffer and die because of your cowardice?

Yes, I'd rather see a whole lot of people have to move across the border than see a whole lot of people get raped, murdered and killed.  If you're a decent person, you would as well.  So if you think this is a false choice, tell me about it.  If you think there's an alternative solution, tell me about it.  Because this attack is a paradigm shift.  Previously it was plausible to think Israel could continue the status quo of just keeping Hamas bottled up and crushed under foot, using the Iron Dome to shoot down all their rockets, using the IDF to beat back all their attacks, and no lives would be lost.  But that's clearly no longer true.  Hamas must go.  One way or another, Hamas must go.

Have Egypt annex Gaza, And Jordan annex the West Bank. Or use it as a threat against Hamas.


Hamas is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood, which the curreny Egyptian Government hates. They will certainly stamp out any Hamas influence of course.

[GeneralMacArthur]

This war will be the end of Hamas. We do not know HOW Hamas will be defeated, but we can be pretty confident it will be; it has not received very much international support, and Hamas is outnumbered over 5:1. HAMAS IS TOAST! When Hamas is defeated, peace will become much more likely.

People keep posting things like this but as long as the Palestinians remain in Gaza, there will always be Hamas on Israel's doorstep.  The United States of America, the most powerful army in the world, couldn't even root al-Qaeda out of Mogadishu, a city half the size of Gaza and one where the United States had a lot of popular support.  Yet we expect Israel, a far weaker country than America and one that has far more demands on its military, to successfully go into Gaza, a city twice as big and one where the entire population wants to see them die, and root out Hamas, a huge terrorist network with the backing of multiple powerful nations in the region?

It's an impossible demand.  Urban warfare is extremely difficult even under the best of circumstances.  It's just a fantasy proposed by people who think there's a solution here where Gaza can be normalized by ripping out the cancer of Hamas.  It's simply not possible.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I have yet to hear anyone propose a serious solution to stop Hamas attacks into Palestine.

As I've said before, it's extremely easy to sit in the peanut gallery and say "oh how dare you, oh how inhumane" to any proposed solution.  But the status quo is appallingly inhumane.  Unless you have an actual proposal for how to fix the status quo, you are advocating for its continuation.  So you are the one advocating for something appallingly inhumane.

The really sickening truth is that many people in this thread are OK with the status quo because they see it as acceptable that these Jews are getting killed.  They think they deserve it, or "it's the natural consequence of decolonization", or "this is what fighting your oppressors looks like", or whatever other idiotic excuse for being OK with genocide you can concoct.  Think I'm exaggerating?  Look at the warning posted at the top of the thread.  I've seen the deleted posts.  I've also seen many of the posts that haven't yet been deleted.

But there are also a lot of useful idiots who are willing to go along with the status quo simply because they're too cowardly to actually propose a real, practical, workable solution to the problem.  Should the Jews continue to suffer and die because of your cowardice?

Yes, I'd rather see a whole lot of people have to move across the border than see a whole lot of people get raped, murdered and killed.  If you're a decent person, you would as well.  So if you think this is a false choice, tell me about it.  If you think there's an alternative solution, tell me about it.  Because this attack is a paradigm shift.  Previously it was plausible to think Israel could continue the status quo of just keeping Hamas bottled up and crushed under foot, using the Iron Dome to shoot down all their rockets, using the IDF to beat back all their attacks, and no lives would be lost.  But that's clearly no longer true.  Hamas must go.  One way or another, Hamas must go.

Long term there needs to be a peace deal. The Arabs attacked Israel in 1973 and even though Israel won the war, they realized that they weren't invulnerable and made peace with Egypt and Jordan in 1978.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Have Egypt annex Gaza, And Jordan annex the West Bank. Or use it as a threat against Hamas.


Hamas is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood, which the curreny Egyptian Government hates. They will certainly stamp out any Hamas influence of course.

I have also advocated for this in the past, but I do not think Egypt is willing to annex Gaza.  They built multiple big walls between their border and Gaza.  I also don't think they want to share the Gaza border with Israel.  That would be a huge headache for them to deal with from now until eternity as they would from then on be responsible for everything Hamas does, be responsible for suppressing the Hamas activity.

Much easier from Egypt's perspective to bring the Gazans into Egypt where they will have a much more difficult time attacking Israel.

[oldtimer]

The United States is moving the USS Gerald Ford aircraft carrier and its accompanying warships (currently in the Mediterranean) towards Israel. It has a carrier strike group of 5000 soldiers and several aircrafts on deck. This has got to be extremely rare.

Thinking something like (200) fighter jets are on that Carrier.

Obviously this is more of a message to Iran than anyone else, since US is extremely unlikely to directly intervene in what is currently going on in Gaza & Southern Israel.

If Iran were to choose to mobilize their proxies from South Lebanon in a massive way, I would not be surprised if US military assets might be involved in combat operations.

Still Iran does not have direct control over Hezbollah military choices, but would imagine that they would be able to reign them in if it looks like Israeli and US Air assets will start directly targeting their  proxies, with after all the whole Saudi Arabia & Iranian peace deal over the war in Yemen.

The Carrier has to stay at a distance though, as seen from the Ukraine War, anti-ship missiles can sink large ships from quite a distance these days.

[Not Me, Us]

I have yet to hear anyone propose a serious solution to stop Hamas attacks into Palestine.

As I've said before, it's extremely easy to sit in the peanut gallery and say "oh how dare you, oh how inhumane" to any proposed solution.  But the status quo is appallingly inhumane.  Unless you have an actual proposal for how to fix the status quo, you are advocating for its continuation.  So you are the one advocating for something appallingly inhumane.

The really sickening truth is that many people in this thread are OK with the status quo because they see it as acceptable that these Jews are getting killed.  They think they deserve it, or "it's the natural consequence of decolonization", or "this is what fighting your oppressors looks like", or whatever other idiotic excuse for being OK with genocide you can concoct.  Think I'm exaggerating?  Look at the warning posted at the top of the thread.  I've seen the deleted posts.  I've also seen many of the posts that haven't yet been deleted.

But there are also a lot of useful idiots who are willing to go along with the status quo simply because they're too cowardly to actually propose a real, practical, workable solution to the problem.  Should the Jews continue to suffer and die because of your cowardice?

Yes, I'd rather see a whole lot of people have to move across the border than see a whole lot of people get raped, murdered and killed.  If you're a decent person, you would as well.  So if you think this is a false choice, tell me about it.  If you think there's an alternative solution, tell me about it.  Because this attack is a paradigm shift.  Previously it was plausible to think Israel could continue the status quo of just keeping Hamas bottled up and crushed under foot, using the Iron Dome to shoot down all their rockets, using the IDF to beat back all their attacks, and no lives would be lost.  But that's clearly no longer true.  Hamas must go.  One way or another, Hamas must go.

To start, at least in the short term, Israel will need to invade and occupy Gaza, respecting the property rights of the innocent civilians you seem to take such pleasure in butchering as much as is realistically possible. After that, Israel should turn over occupation and administration to an international coalition. Ideally it would be comprised of armies from Arab states, but I sincerely doubt they'd be interested so it would probably end up being mostly a NATO affair. This group would occupy as long as possible until Gaza and the West Bank can achieve peaceful independence from Israel in a two-state solution. Is this especially realistic? No, not at all, but it is the duty of every major world leader right now to work toward a solution as close to this as possible, and is honestly more realistic than your idiotic and barbaric "plan".

And stop downplaying your genocide fantasies, it would not be "a whole lot of people moving across the border", it would be genocide. Tens of thousands of innocents would die, which you of course know, you just choose to ignore because it isn't convenient for your narrative.

[jaichind]

https://www.forexlive.com/news/israel-massing-100000-troops-in-southern-israel-to-neutralize-hamas-military-facilities-20231008/

"Israel massing 100,000 troops in southern Israel to neutralize Hamas' military facilities"

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

This war will be the end of Hamas. We do not know HOW Hamas will be defeated, but we can be pretty confident it will be; it has not received very much international support, and Hamas is outnumbered over 5:1. HAMAS IS TOAST! When Hamas is defeated, peace will become much more likely.

When Lucy holds down the football, Charlie will be able to kick it.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Long term there needs to be a peace deal. The Arabs attacked Israel in 1973 and even though Israel won the war, they realized that they weren't invulnerable and made peace with Egypt and Jordan in 1978.

OK so tell me about this peace deal that Hamas is going to accept.  It's not going to happen.  Hamas is not a rational actor, it is a terrorist group whose singular purpose is the extermination of all Jews and the conquest of Israel.  To veto any other solutions because you're still holding out delusional hope that Hamas and Israel can come to some sort of peace deal is just childish thinking.  Of course, we all know you don't actually believe this is possible.

[GeneralMacArthur]

To start, at least in the short term, Israel will need to invade and occupy Gaza, respecting the property rights of the innocent civilians you seem to take such pleasure in butchering as much as is realistically possible.

Mods, please delete this.  I have never said anything of the sort, nor have I ever given any indication of anything of the sort.  It's astoundingly inappropriate for someone to write something like this.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

To start, at least in the short term, Israel will need to invade and occupy Gaza, respecting the property rights of the innocent civilians you seem to take such pleasure in butchering as much as is realistically possible.

Mods, please delete this.  I have never said anything of the sort, nor have I ever given any indication of anything of the sort.  It's astoundingly inappropriate for someone to write something like this.

You've been using Nazi rhetoric about exterminating the cancer of a city-state where 50% of the population is younger than 18 for the past day, dude.

[Aurelius2]

I have yet to hear anyone propose a serious solution to stop Hamas attacks into Palestine.

As I've said before, it's extremely easy to sit in the peanut gallery and say "oh how dare you, oh how inhumane" to any proposed solution.  But the status quo is appallingly inhumane.  Unless you have an actual proposal for how to fix the status quo, you are advocating for its continuation.  So you are the one advocating for something appallingly inhumane.

The really sickening truth is that many people in this thread are OK with the status quo because they see it as acceptable that these Jews are getting killed.  They think they deserve it, or "it's the natural consequence of decolonization", or "this is what fighting your oppressors looks like", or whatever other idiotic excuse for being OK with genocide you can concoct.  Think I'm exaggerating?  Look at the warning posted at the top of the thread.  I've seen the deleted posts.  I've also seen many of the posts that haven't yet been deleted.

But there are also a lot of useful idiots who are willing to go along with the status quo simply because they're too cowardly to actually propose a real, practical, workable solution to the problem.  Should the Jews continue to suffer and die because of your cowardice?

Yes, I'd rather see a whole lot of people have to move across the border than see a whole lot of people get raped, murdered and killed.  If you're a decent person, you would as well.  So if you think this is a false choice, tell me about it.  If you think there's an alternative solution, tell me about it.  Because this attack is a paradigm shift.  Previously it was plausible to think Israel could continue the status quo of just keeping Hamas bottled up and crushed under foot, using the Iron Dome to shoot down all their rockets, using the IDF to beat back all their attacks, and no lives would be lost.  But that's clearly no longer true.  Hamas must go.  One way or another, Hamas must go.

Have Egypt annex Gaza, And Jordan annex the West Bank. Or use it as a threat against Hamas.


Hamas is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood, which the curreny Egyptian Government hates. They will certainly stamp out any Hamas influence of course.

Egypt does not want Hamas, and Jordan does not want the West Bank. You would have to go to war against those countries to force them to take the territories in question. This will make the current war look like peanuts.

[Not Me, Us]

To start, at least in the short term, Israel will need to invade and occupy Gaza, respecting the property rights of the innocent civilians you seem to take such pleasure in butchering as much as is realistically possible.

Mods, please delete this.  I have never said anything of the sort, nor have I ever given any indication of anything of the sort.  It's astoundingly inappropriate for someone to write something like this.

You have advocated exclusively for the most evil option and have refused to even entertain anything else, so how else am I supposed to take what you say? You want to forcibly deport millions of innocents, which will result in thousands of their deaths. You are a seemingly gleeful advocate for ethnic cleansing of Arabs in the Gaza Strip, with all their land being redistributed among Israeli settlers. What about that have I misunderstood or mischaracterized? I will gladly retract any of these statements and publicly apologize, because I would love to be proven wrong about you.