Israel-Gaza war

[Aurelius2]

How likely is a unity government at this point? German news reported earlier that Gantz and Lapid offered a national unity cabinet with Bibi as long as the far-right parties leave. I guess that would be a good solution and also sink the justice reform.

It seems like Netanyahu has basically said that anyone is welcome to join him but he's not kicking anyone out, so it seems unlikely.

Although the thing is, at this point I imagine the foreign policy of everyone from Gantz to Smotrich would be near-identical.

How do you think Lapid's foreign policy would differ? (Assuming you see him as to the left of Gantz here). I wouldn't be shocked if even Meretz gets on board with a major operation in Gaza at this point, leaving just Ben Gvir raging about wiping out every last Palestinian and a few Hadashniks blaming the JewsZionists for having it coming.

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1711087784574759243?s=12
☹️

The link is wrong or the tweet has been deleted. What was it about?

Deleted vid of Gaza on fire

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How likely is a unity government at this point? German news reported earlier that Gantz and Lapid offered a national unity cabinet with Bibi as long as the far-right parties leave. I guess that would be a good solution and also sink the justice reform.

It seems like Netanyahu has basically said that anyone is welcome to join him but he's not kicking anyone out, so it seems unlikely.

Although the thing is, at this point I imagine the foreign policy of everyone from Gantz to Smotrich would be near-identical.

How do you think Lapid's foreign policy would differ? (Assuming you see him as to the left of Gantz here). I wouldn't be shocked if even Meretz gets on board with a major operation in Gaza at this point, leaving just Ben Gvir raging about wiping out every last Palestinian and a few Hadashniks blaming the JewsZionists for having it coming.

Oh, I include him in that. We got to see him in action during his PM tenure, and while I imagine he might have a softer hand inside Israel proper/the West Bank, Gaza is in for the same response for anyone right of Labor or maybe even Meretz.

[Ferguson97]

Also I'd bet top dollar some of the men are being SAed as well, but that doesn't stir the same rage in people. Smh

I doubt it about grown men (and I'd honestly be surprised if many of the men are still alive) but boys, absolutely. Because there is no level to which Hamas won't sink.

There is a LOT of situational homosexuality in these cultures so I'm not sure. Maybe you're right, but it doesn't change my view that a man's life is just as valuable as a woman's.

The life of a man and the life of a woman are equally valuable on an inherent level, but that doesn’t mean that they’re facing the same risks in a situation like this. When women are prisoners of war, it’s because their captors have something very specific in mind for them.

[Horus]

Also I'd bet top dollar some of the men are being SAed as well, but that doesn't stir the same rage in people. Smh

I doubt it about grown men (and I'd honestly be surprised if many of the men are still alive) but boys, absolutely. Because there is no level to which Hamas won't sink.

There is a LOT of situational homosexuality in these cultures so I'm not sure. Maybe you're right, but it doesn't change my view that a man's life is just as valuable as a woman's.

The life of a man and the life of a woman are equally valuable on an inherent level, but that doesn’t mean that they’re facing the same risks in a situation like this. When women are prisoners of war, it’s because their captors have something very specific in mind for them.

And like I already said, I would not be at all surprised if the men were also facing sexual assault due to the high levels of situational homosexuality in some cultures.

If you are prioritizing rescuing women over men, you do not view their lives as equally valuable.

[Pericles]

The two-state solution is dead and buried. At this point, settlements in the West Bank have grown so large and so numerous that any "evacuation" is unthinkable; Rashida Tlaib was right when she said such a move would be analogous to the Nakba.

A one-state solution is even more unrealistic though. There is simply no way Israelis and Palestinians could live in peace and form a functioning state, nor would it be fair to either.

[PSOL]

Orientalist nonsense once more

Hetero Men care more for women than other men they view as competitors, this is pretty consistent among patriarchal society. Hamas captors are just bargaining chips.

You know how many people, especially straights, go on Grindr just go for young twinks. You know how many go for crossdressers. Look at your own culture.

The two-state solution is dead and buried. At this point, settlements in the West Bank have grown so large and so numerous that any "evacuation" is unthinkable; Rashida Tlaib was right when she said such a move would be analogous to the Nakba.

A one-state solution is even more unrealistic though. There is simply no way Israelis and Palestinians could live in peace and form a functioning state, nor would it be fair to either.

Indeed a lot of people in weapon manufacturing and spyware would be very unhappy about it, like what dominates Israel's economy

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The two-state solution is dead and buried. At this point, settlements in the West Bank have grown so large and so numerous that any "evacuation" is unthinkable; Rashida Tlaib was right when she said such a move would be analogous to the Nakba.

A one-state solution is even more unrealistic though. There is simply no way Israelis and Palestinians could live in peace and form a functioning state, nor would it be fair to either.

So a dysfunctional or two dysfunctional (or given the trends and democratic backsliding, three dysfunctional states) is the preferred outcome?

[Sestak]

Hetero Men care more for women than other men they view as competitors, this is pretty consistent among patriarchal society. Hamas captors are just bargaining chips.

You know how many people, especially straights, go on Grindr just go for young twinks. You know how many go for crossdressers. Look at your own culture.

Wow, brilliant insight, PSOL! I’m glad the rest of us have an expert like you on hand to help us understand the ins and outs of the Israel-Gaza conflict.

[Horus]

Orientalist nonsense once more

Hetero Men care more for women than other men they view as competitors, this is pretty consistent among patriarchal society. Hamas captors are just bargaining chips.

You know how many people, especially straights, go on Grindr just go for young twinks. You know how many go for crossdressers. Look at your own culture.

If you are into twinks you are not straight.

[WalterWhite]

Hetero Men care more for women than other men they view as competitors, this is pretty consistent among patriarchal society. Hamas captors are just bargaining chips.

You know how many people, especially straights, go on Grindr just go for young twinks. You know how many go for crossdressers. Look at your own culture.

Wow, brilliant insight, PSOL! I’m glad the rest of us have an expert like you on hand to help us understand the ins and outs of the Israel-Gaza conflict.

We need olawakandi to propose a solution.

[OriAr]

How likely is a unity government at this point? German news reported earlier that Gantz and Lapid offered a national unity cabinet with Bibi as long as the far-right parties leave. I guess that would be a good solution and also sink the justice reform.

Will happen by Tuesday it seems.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Orientalist nonsense once more

Hetero Men care more for women than other men they view as competitors, this is pretty consistent among patriarchal society. Hamas captors are just bargaining chips.

You know how many people, especially straights, go on Grindr just go for young twinks. You know how many go for crossdressers. Look at your own culture.

If you are into twinks you are not straight.

Incisive analysis of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[Aurelius2]

How likely is a unity government at this point? German news reported earlier that Gantz and Lapid offered a national unity cabinet with Bibi as long as the far-right parties leave. I guess that would be a good solution and also sink the justice reform.

Will happen by Tuesday it seems.

Does this mean Otzma will be out? What about RZ?

I don't care as much about RZ, but Ben Gvir is *at best* a dangerous distraction in a crisis like this, and getting him and his bloodlust out of the cabinet could only be a good thing for Israel right now.

[GeneralMacArthur]

How many pages of this thread now have been dedicated to bikeshedding an expression of sympathy for the victims because it emphasized the many female victims?

Hamas has been killing Jewish civilian men for decades to the point where people in the West are used to it, take it for granted, assume it's just one of those things you have to get used to, that every year a few men in Israel are going to be brutally killed by the poor innocent helpless oppressed Palestinians.

But what they're doing now, kidnapping hundreds of Israeli woman to take back to Gaza for what will presumably be a short life of rape and sexual torture before they're killed and have their mutilated bodies paraded through the streets to the cheering crowds, is entirely new and shocking to the people who are too young to remember Palestine in the era before the IDF obtained dominance in the conflict.

So it's natural to be more horrified by what's happening to the women than what's happening to the men.

[It’s so Joever]

The “solution” is to try and play this to make Israel remember they need us. I also would not at all be opposed to sabotaging the Israeli peace talks with their Arab neighbors for this reason (Trump should never have pushed for this) and do hope this episode does cause those agreements to fall apart as unrealistic as it is.

If you mean the moral solution, that ship sailed a long time ago. The least terrible action at this point would be supporting Israel only to make sure we have a voice at the table to prevent the worst of the excesses which may come.

[GALeftist]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

[It’s so Joever]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

I don’t think he wants this, but as we have directly seen from a poster in this thread (not saying names but y’all know) this is what Israel increasingly wants each year and is the likeliest thing to happen. With not an ally in the world, there is nothing Palestine can do. At this point there isn’t much left to do other than self exile or be genocided by force, and I don’t blame the Palestinian people for whichever of the two awful options they chose.

[Hindsight was 2020]

40+ pages in and this thread is dissolving into talking about straight men picking up twinks on Grindr. Fantastic job Atlas

[GeneralMacArthur]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

This is not genocidal rhetoric.

The problem with Gaza is that it's too close to Israel.  It's a thorn penetrating up into Israel's territory.  Israel's racist, genocidal, Nazi enemies use it as a salient from which they have repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly launched attacks on Israeli civilians to try and conquer the country and wipe its citizens off the earth.

This is simply a strategic liability for Israel.  Gaza at this point isn't a proper city.  It's a military fort administered by terrorists.  It's the equivalent of saying Cuba should expel the Americans from Guantanamo.  Imagine if North Korea had a military base in the San Juan Islands that they used to constantly launch rockets and attacks on Seattle.  Would it be genocidal to say that the North Koreans should be expelled and the base destroyed?

Gaza is a completely failed city.  It's a sprawling morass of cheap concrete and rebar.  It's not like it's Jerusalem or some city that it's critically culturally important for an ethnic group to have access to.  It is not cultural genocide by any stretch to push the Arabs out of Gaza.

Frankly it would be better in the long run since under Israeli administration it could actually be built into a modern, humane, decent city, with the Islamic cultural heritage (a handful of mosques and gravesites) not only kept intact but preserved and made safe and available for pilgrimage and tourism.  Right now those mosques are used as safe hiding spots for Hamas terrorists, they know Israel won't bomb them because the international condemnation for destroying a cultural site would be too great.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

40+ pages in and this thread is dissolving into talking about straight men picking up twinks on Grindr. Fantastic job Atlas

It is content on which quite a few are content.

[GALeftist]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

This is not genocidal rhetoric.

The problem with Gaza is that it's too close to Israel.  It's a thorn penetrating up into Israel's territory.  Israel's racist, genocidal, Nazi enemies use it as a salient from which they have repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly launched attacks on Israeli civilians to try and conquer the country and wipe its citizens off the earth.

This is simply a strategic liability for Israel.  Gaza at this point isn't a proper city.  It's a military fort administered by terrorists.  It's the equivalent of saying Cuba should expel the Americans from Guantanamo.  Imagine if North Korea had a military base in the San Juan Islands that they used to constantly launch rockets and attacks on Seattle.  Would it be genocidal to say that the North Koreans should be expelled and the base destroyed?

Gaza is a completely failed city.  It's a sprawling morass of cheap concrete and rebar.  It's not like it's Jerusalem or some city that it's critically culturally important for an ethnic group to have access to.  It is not cultural genocide by any stretch to push the Arabs out of Gaza.

Frankly it would be better in the long run since under Israeli administration it could actually be built into a modern, humane, decent city, with the Islamic cultural heritage (a handful of mosques and gravesites) not only kept intact but preserved and made safe and available for pilgrimage and tourism.  Right now those mosques are used as safe hiding spots for Hamas terrorists, they know Israel won't bomb them because the international condemnation for destroying a cultural site would be too great.

Can you explain to me, please, how it is possible that a "military fort" has a population of 2 million and is, as noted above, about 75% women and children?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Are there over 2 million Amerocan citizens living in Guantanamo Bay?

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Imagine if North Korea had a military base in the San Juan Islands that they used to constantly launch rockets and attacks on Seattle.  Would it be genocidal to say that the North Koreans should be expelled and the base destroyed?

IT IS THEIR HOME.

Good lord.

[The Mikado]

Maybe if the US actually got something out of Egypt for 45 years of massive amounts of foreign aid some sort of "Egypt polices and patrols Gaza to keep order" deal could have been worked out, as the Egyptians are a third party with a strong interest in cessation of violence (hurts tourism in Sharm, if nothing else) and don't have the same baggage with civilians, but Egypt wants that about as much as they want a heart attack.

It's a shame because I think that might be a situation that works out well for everyone. Egypt hates Hamas but at least are Muslims who speak Arabic and Egyptian soldiers would be a less scary presence patrolling the streets of Gaza.