Israel-Gaza war

[BigSkyBob]

Hamas have released propaganda denying atrocities on October 7:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-783233

Whether, or not, the document is "propaganda," however you define it, it makes a series of claims that are either true, somewhat true, somewhat false, or false.

Where babies capitated? If so, in what number?

How many women were raped?

Did the Israeli military fire on the path of the invasion that included its own civilians?

Is there, or is there not, a "Hannible Directive" to preference killing Israelis rather than allowing them to fall into captivity?

These questions should be answered, and not a priori dismissed as "propaganda."

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Hamas have released propaganda denying atrocities on October 7:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-783233

Whether, or not, the document is "propaganda," however you define it, it makes a series of claims that are either true, somewhat true, somewhat false, or false.

Where babies capitated? If so, in what number?

How many women were raped?

Did the Israeli military fire on the path of the invasion that included its own civilians?

Is there, or is there not, a "Hannible Directive" to preference killing Israelis rather than allowing them to fall into captivity?

These questions should be answered, and not a priori dismissed as "propaganda."

Yes, exactly. Israel shouldn't fear the truth. We already know Hamas  committed atrocious things on October 7th. For sake of transparency it'd be beneficial if we knew exactly how atrocious those acts were. And Israel definitely can't be trusted to be 100% honest about these things. Neither can Hamas.

[Velasco]

https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1749483187309326846?t=scYcn5VXXoqpbWDUzrd-Lw&a...

https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-22/25000-deaths-in-gaza-why-the-destruction-of-this-war-exceeds-that-of-other-major-conflicts.html

This pace has caused the death toll in Gaza to reach 10,000 after just the first month of attacks. In Ukraine, it took a year and a half to reach that number (including civilians only) (...)

These numbers are explained, in part, because the magnitude of Israel’s attack is unprecedented. There have never been as many airstrikes with civilian casualties in the Middle East conflicts as those that were recorded in October and November in Gaza and the West Bank: 1,614, almost all of them in Gaza, according to data from the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED).

(...)

A direct consequence of these bombings is the destruction in Gaza. Around half of the buildings in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed, a figure that rises to between 72% and 84% in the north of the Palestinian enclave, according to an analysis based on images from the Copernicus Sentinel-1 satellite

(...)

At the start of the war, military spokesman Daniel Hagari admitted that the “emphasis” of bombing was on damage, not precision. U.S. intelligence services estimate that about half of the munitions Israel has dropped from the air are unguided.

(...)

Among those killed in Gaza, there is no way to distinguish between Hamas militiamen and civilians, but the death toll has been contrasted and verified in several international scientific studies. In addition, there is a very high percentage of women and children, who are unlikely to be militiamen, among the victims.
.
The figures are partly explained by the demographics of Gaza, where one in two people is underage: it is sadly logical that in an indiscriminate bombing one in two victims would be a child.

(...)

Gazan authorities, who are publishing a list with the names, surnames and ID of the deceased, also estimate that there are about 7,000 people under the rubble. The situation makes it difficult to estimate deaths due to lack of medical care (more than 62,000 injuries have been recorded), hunger (most people can hope for no more than one meal a day) or illnesses caused by sleeping in tents in the coldest months of the year.
 

[jaichind]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/israel-says-21-soldiers-killed-in-gaza-in-worst-single-day-toll

"Israel Says 21 Soldiers Killed in Gaza in Worst Single-Day Toll"

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/israel-says-21-soldiers-killed-in-gaza-in-worst-single-day-toll

"Israel Says 21 Soldiers Killed in Gaza in Worst Single-Day Toll"

Did anything big happen today?
EDIT: wow, what a case of hoist by one's own petard

[Logical]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/israel-says-21-soldiers-killed-in-gaza-in-worst-single-day-toll

"Israel Says 21 Soldiers Killed in Gaza in Worst Single-Day Toll"

Did anything big happen today?
EDIT: wow, what a case of hoist by one's own petard

Rigged building blew up while IDF reservists were in it.

You can see on this day by day KIA count how devastating it was.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/israel-says-21-soldiers-killed-in-gaza-in-worst-single-day-toll

"Israel Says 21 Soldiers Killed in Gaza in Worst Single-Day Toll"

Did anything big happen today?
EDIT: wow, what a case of hoist by one's own petard

Booby trapped building blew up while IDF reservists were in it.

You can see on this day by day KIA count how devastating it was.

Ouch.
It seems the Israelis aren't making too big news of this though?
I wonder if this is just seen as operationally embarassing.

[Zinneke]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

[Samof94]

I firmly believe that the reason Netanyahu is prolonging this war is so that Trump wins in the US. I mean, Gaza's barely fighting back, Israel is committing genocide against the Gazans. This is kind of ironic, since Trump has been attacking Netanyahu lately (though he'll suck up to Netanyahu again once elected.)

Netanyahu did interfere in the 2016 election in Trump's favor, but Democrats decided to yell about some other country interfering because they were too cowardly to mention that.

Putin was MUCH more involved. Also, what he is doing in Ukraine is far worse.
As for the Hamas being antisemitic thing, it makes the HARD left look ridiculous when defending them.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1749483187309326846?t=scYcn5VXXoqpbWDUzrd-Lw&a...

https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-22/25000-deaths-in-gaza-why-the-destruction-of-this-war-exceeds-that-of-other-major-conflicts.html

This pace has caused the death toll in Gaza to reach 10,000 after just the first month of attacks. In Ukraine, it took a year and a half to reach that number (including civilians only) (...)

These numbers are explained, in part, because the magnitude of Israel’s attack is unprecedented. There have never been as many airstrikes with civilian casualties in the Middle East conflicts as those that were recorded in October and November in Gaza and the West Bank: 1,614, almost all of them in Gaza, according to data from the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED).

(...)

A direct consequence of these bombings is the destruction in Gaza. Around half of the buildings in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed, a figure that rises to between 72% and 84% in the north of the Palestinian enclave, according to an analysis based on images from the Copernicus Sentinel-1 satellite

(...)

At the start of the war, military spokesman Daniel Hagari admitted that the “emphasis” of bombing was on damage, not precision. U.S. intelligence services estimate that about half of the munitions Israel has dropped from the air are unguided.

(...)

Among those killed in Gaza, there is no way to distinguish between Hamas militiamen and civilians, but the death toll has been contrasted and verified in several international scientific studies. In addition, there is a very high percentage of women and children, who are unlikely to be militiamen, among the victims.
.
The figures are partly explained by the demographics of Gaza, where one in two people is underage: it is sadly logical that in an indiscriminate bombing one in two victims would be a child.

(...)

Gazan authorities, who are publishing a list with the names, surnames and ID of the deceased, also estimate that there are about 7,000 people under the rubble. The situation makes it difficult to estimate deaths due to lack of medical care (more than 62,000 injuries have been recorded), hunger (most people can hope for no more than one meal a day) or illnesses caused by sleeping in tents in the coldest months of the year.
 

Imagine actually believing Hamas’ numbers

[Devils30]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

I stand by my remark, even that CBS segment had a CAIR representative as a "swing voter." These leftists, which include many Arabs are trying to discredit Biden because they think it will lead to AOC/the squad later realizing their revolution.

[Zinneke]

Hamas won't accept, and we'll continue to get anti-Israel protests throughout the United States demanding a "cease-fire" and blaming Israel (who offered a cease-fire) rather than Hamas (who rejected it) for there not being one.

Wanna know how I know this will happen?  Because, it's easy to forget, we already had a ceasefire shortly after Thanksgiving, and Hamas refused to release any more hostages and started attacking Israel again.

Not a single person, not a single organization, not a single protest or march or highway blockade or occupation of a Jewish student center, will call on Hamas to accept a cease-fire.  It will all continue to be Israel's, and solely Israel's, fault that this war continues.  The youth of this country will continue to operate under this premise that if a war has high civilian casualties, it's incumbent upon the winning party in the conflict to unilaterally and unconditionally end it and retreat.  A standard they don't apply to any other country, or any other conflict in world history.  A standard they invented solely so it could be applied to the Jewish country.

The leftists and their Arab academic allies are on a mission to destroy the Democratic Party in 2024.

Anyone genuinely believing this should seek a psychologist

Look man, for the conservative camp this is just a football match, in which their camp "win" and "leftists, wokists" lose, they aren't interested in analysis, and they only cry crocodile tears for the victims of October 7th because it makes them feel big online or in some silly debate. Oh and they think Arab lives are worth less because it's cool to be edgy.

This is what it's all about to them. Zero emotional or rational investment. As opposed to the protestors, who have emotional investment but zero rational one, and misunderstand everything about Hamas and their far right Islamist ideology.

I stand by my remark, even that CBS segment had a CAIR representative as a "swing voter." These leftists, which include many Arabs are trying to discredit Biden because they think it will lead to AOC/the squad later realizing their revolution.

No, their criticism of Biden is totally rational from an emotional perspective : Biden has exposed that the top brass of the DNC have zero emotional stake in the global order of human rights and democracy by not pressuring the crackpot far right Israeli government enough even though Bibi literally endorsed an opposition candidate against President Obama. Biden could have hung Bibi out to dry but he preferred to stick to his soulless playbook. Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election. Biden is the definition of a cuckold, he watches as Bibi rawdogs his electoral chances, openly states he wants a GOP fascist in the White House and the guy doesn't even arm wrestle Bibi to resign or just igbore the issue : he gives it more salience than it deserves by making a national address to the nation, because he's still living in the 1970s.

But where the Democrat "Squad" have it so wrong is their bizarre pseudo-intellectual framing of tgis conflict as DeCoLoNiZaTiOn as if it's somehow related to BLM or some other protest movement tgat the vast majority of people just don't care about. It makes no sense to start Learning as a Palestinian terrorist or shouting pro-Houthi slogans...Hamas and the Israeli Religious Zionist movement should both br labelled as neo -fascist reactionary agitators who should be eliminated in favour of secular alternatives. Or just leave the place to slide into their endless war

[Horus]

Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election.

Perfectly stated. Biden just gives off the impression that he cares about foreign policy more than domestic crises. If he keeps that attitude up, he will lose.

[Pres Mike]

Has the Israeli offensive stalled? They haven't made much progress the last 2-3 weeks. Before, it seemed they were taking multiple blocks a day.

[Lief 🗽]

Hamas rejects a ceasefire (again).
https://twitter.com/i24news_en/status/1749783407834378554?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJ...

[Vosem]

Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election.

Perfectly stated. Biden just gives off the impression that he cares about foreign policy more than domestic crises. If he keeps that attitude up, he will lose.

A plurality of Democrats say Fetterman expressing support for Israel improved their opinion of him. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that American voters who care about the Middle East are very supportive of the Israeli campaign, and enough of these people exist among typically-Democratic constituencies that expressing skepticism is broadly risky for Democratic politicians. (The trendlines are also not actually such that this can be expected to change in our lifetimes; public support for Israel is much greater today than it was two decades ago, which explains the difference between Biden's policies and GWB's much more skeptical ones.)

Has the Israeli offensive stalled? They haven't made much progress the last 2-3 weeks. Before, it seemed they were taking multiple blocks a day.

It's very hard to tell the remaining population to evacuate, I think (to where, after all?), so an offensive to take the remaining sections of the Gaza Strip would probably involve significantly greater civilian casualties than the stuff which has happened to date (which, again, by the standards of sieges of cities this size, has so far resulted in remarkably few civilian casualties).

The humane thing to do would be to cut off supplies and wait for them to surrender -- this would cost far fewer lives than a bombing campaign followed by ground invasion (and is probably also the humane option WRT Yemen) -- but that would require substantially greater international buy-in.

[Pres Mike]

Hamas rejects a ceasefire (again).
https://twitter.com/i24news_en/status/1749783407834378554?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJ...

Is Hamas probably aiming for a permanent ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal, which will never happen

Another solution is Israeli allowing Hamas fighters to flee the Gaza Strip to Qatar, in exchange for a surrender. Like when Israel allowed the PLO to flee Lebanon in the 1980s. That won't happen for several reasons. What about the families of Hamas fighters? Even if its mostly single men, fleeing to Qatar means giving up a chance to marry and have a family. Plus Hamas would be discredited in the minds of Palestinians

[Zinneke]

Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election.

Perfectly stated. Biden just gives off the impression that he cares about foreign policy more than domestic crises. If he keeps that attitude up, he will lose.

A plurality of Democrats say Fetterman expressing support for Israel improved their opinion of him. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that American voters who care about the Middle East are very supportive of the Israeli campaign, and enough of these people exist among typically-Democratic constituencies that expressing skepticism is broadly risky for Democratic politicians. (The trendlines are also not actually such that this can be expected to change in our lifetimes; public support for Israel is much greater today than it was two decades ago, which explains the difference between Biden's policies and GWB's much more skeptical ones.)

Has the Israeli offensive stalled? They haven't made much progress the last 2-3 weeks. Before, it seemed they were taking multiple blocks a day.

It's very hard to tell the remaining population to evacuate, I think (to where, after all?), so an offensive to take the remaining sections of the Gaza Strip would probably involve significantly greater civilian casualties than the stuff which has happened to date (which, again, by the standards of sieges of cities this size, has so far resulted in remarkably few civilian casualties).

The humane thing to do would be to cut off supplies and wait for them to surrender -- this would cost far fewer lives than a bombing campaign followed by ground invasion (and is probably also the humane option WRT Yemen) -- but that would require substantially greater international buy-in.

Vosem, your link says 52% of Democrat voters literally don't give a sh**t about what Fetterman thinks about Israel-Palestine,that's the real "plurality" there. Most see that their buying power has been reduced in the last 4 years and that Biden is a wet wipe.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1749483187309326846?t=scYcn5VXXoqpbWDUzrd-Lw&a...

https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-22/25000-deaths-in-gaza-why-the-destruction-of-this-war-exceeds-that-of-other-major-conflicts.html

This pace has caused the death toll in Gaza to reach 10,000 after just the first month of attacks. In Ukraine, it took a year and a half to reach that number (including civilians only) (...)

These numbers are explained, in part, because the magnitude of Israel’s attack is unprecedented. There have never been as many airstrikes with civilian casualties in the Middle East conflicts as those that were recorded in October and November in Gaza and the West Bank: 1,614, almost all of them in Gaza, according to data from the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED).

(...)

A direct consequence of these bombings is the destruction in Gaza. Around half of the buildings in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed, a figure that rises to between 72% and 84% in the north of the Palestinian enclave, according to an analysis based on images from the Copernicus Sentinel-1 satellite

(...)

At the start of the war, military spokesman Daniel Hagari admitted that the “emphasis” of bombing was on damage, not precision. U.S. intelligence services estimate that about half of the munitions Israel has dropped from the air are unguided.

(...)

Among those killed in Gaza, there is no way to distinguish between Hamas militiamen and civilians, but the death toll has been contrasted and verified in several international scientific studies. In addition, there is a very high percentage of women and children, who are unlikely to be militiamen, among the victims.
.
The figures are partly explained by the demographics of Gaza, where one in two people is underage: it is sadly logical that in an indiscriminate bombing one in two victims would be a child.

(...)

Gazan authorities, who are publishing a list with the names, surnames and ID of the deceased, also estimate that there are about 7,000 people under the rubble. The situation makes it difficult to estimate deaths due to lack of medical care (more than 62,000 injuries have been recorded), hunger (most people can hope for no more than one meal a day) or illnesses caused by sleeping in tents in the coldest months of the year.
 

Imagine actually believing Hamas’ numbers

Especially as quoted by an infamous Iranian propagandist associated with the Quincy Institute.

[Vosem]

Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election.

Perfectly stated. Biden just gives off the impression that he cares about foreign policy more than domestic crises. If he keeps that attitude up, he will lose.

A plurality of Democrats say Fetterman expressing support for Israel improved their opinion of him. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that American voters who care about the Middle East are very supportive of the Israeli campaign, and enough of these people exist among typically-Democratic constituencies that expressing skepticism is broadly risky for Democratic politicians. (The trendlines are also not actually such that this can be expected to change in our lifetimes; public support for Israel is much greater today than it was two decades ago, which explains the difference between Biden's policies and GWB's much more skeptical ones.)

Has the Israeli offensive stalled? They haven't made much progress the last 2-3 weeks. Before, it seemed they were taking multiple blocks a day.

It's very hard to tell the remaining population to evacuate, I think (to where, after all?), so an offensive to take the remaining sections of the Gaza Strip would probably involve significantly greater civilian casualties than the stuff which has happened to date (which, again, by the standards of sieges of cities this size, has so far resulted in remarkably few civilian casualties).

The humane thing to do would be to cut off supplies and wait for them to surrender -- this would cost far fewer lives than a bombing campaign followed by ground invasion (and is probably also the humane option WRT Yemen) -- but that would require substantially greater international buy-in.

Vosem, your link says 52% of Democrat voters literally don't give a sh**t about what Fetterman thinks about Israel-Palestine,that's the real "plurality" there. Most see that their buying power has been reduced in the last 4 years and that Biden is a wet wipe.

How is “most don’t care, of those who do more are invested in the US continuing to support the Israeli campaign” any different from what I’ve said?

Biden’s stance has been unpopular because among Americans — and I think this is seen differently abroad — he is seen as equivocating. His most prominent primary challenger, Dean Phillips, is funded by longtime Democratic donors who believe Biden is not pro-Israel enough. Yes, Phillips won’t win, but he exists, whereas no candidate even emerged holding the opposite perspective. It’s dumb to deny that there’s a substantial appetite for a more strongly pro-Israel American left. (The reverse is also true, and though their absolute numbers are smaller they’re much louder, which introduces confusion about the state of play.)

People who are mad at Biden because prices rose are going to vote for a guy who thinks pro-Palestinian protesters should be deported, because that’s the actual other side of this debate, not some world where US support for the Gaza campaign declines.

[Zinneke]

Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election.

Perfectly stated. Biden just gives off the impression that he cares about foreign policy more than domestic crises. If he keeps that attitude up, he will lose.

A plurality of Democrats say Fetterman expressing support for Israel improved their opinion of him. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that American voters who care about the Middle East are very supportive of the Israeli campaign, and enough of these people exist among typically-Democratic constituencies that expressing skepticism is broadly risky for Democratic politicians. (The trendlines are also not actually such that this can be expected to change in our lifetimes; public support for Israel is much greater today than it was two decades ago, which explains the difference between Biden's policies and GWB's much more skeptical ones.)

Has the Israeli offensive stalled? They haven't made much progress the last 2-3 weeks. Before, it seemed they were taking multiple blocks a day.

It's very hard to tell the remaining population to evacuate, I think (to where, after all?), so an offensive to take the remaining sections of the Gaza Strip would probably involve significantly greater civilian casualties than the stuff which has happened to date (which, again, by the standards of sieges of cities this size, has so far resulted in remarkably few civilian casualties).

The humane thing to do would be to cut off supplies and wait for them to surrender -- this would cost far fewer lives than a bombing campaign followed by ground invasion (and is probably also the humane option WRT Yemen) -- but that would require substantially greater international buy-in.

Vosem, your link says 52% of Democrat voters literally don't give a sh**t about what Fetterman thinks about Israel-Palestine,that's the real "plurality" there. Most see that their buying power has been reduced in the last 4 years and that Biden is a wet wipe.

How is “most don’t care, of those who do more are invested in the US continuing to support the Israeli campaign” any different from what I’ve said?

Biden’s stance has been unpopular because among Americans — and I think this is seen differently abroad — he is seen as equivocating. His most prominent primary challenger, Dean Phillips, is funded by longtime Democratic donors who believe Biden is not pro-Israel enough. Yes, Phillips won’t win, but he exists, whereas no candidate even emerged holding the opposite perspective. It’s dumb to deny that there’s a substantial appetite for a more strongly pro-Israel American left. (The reverse is also true, and though their absolute numbers are smaller they’re much louder, which introduces confusion about the state of play.)

People who are mad at Biden because prices rose are going to vote for a guy who thinks pro-Palestinian protesters should be deported, because that’s the actual other side of this debate, not some world where US support for the Gaza campaign declines.

If you can't even distinguish between Democratic voters, what Democratic donor's want, and Democratic rank and file members/staff administration, there's no point debating. Your post is a classic example of what you have engaged in throughout this entire thread : just bending reality to suit your narrative.

The IDF salutes you for your bravery Vosem.

[Vosem]

Better yet Biden prefers to focus on this issue alone rather than American working class issues, which is the real reason Democrat voters are threatening to just not vote next election.

Perfectly stated. Biden just gives off the impression that he cares about foreign policy more than domestic crises. If he keeps that attitude up, he will lose.

A plurality of Democrats say Fetterman expressing support for Israel improved their opinion of him. I don't know why it's so hard to accept that American voters who care about the Middle East are very supportive of the Israeli campaign, and enough of these people exist among typically-Democratic constituencies that expressing skepticism is broadly risky for Democratic politicians. (The trendlines are also not actually such that this can be expected to change in our lifetimes; public support for Israel is much greater today than it was two decades ago, which explains the difference between Biden's policies and GWB's much more skeptical ones.)

Has the Israeli offensive stalled? They haven't made much progress the last 2-3 weeks. Before, it seemed they were taking multiple blocks a day.

It's very hard to tell the remaining population to evacuate, I think (to where, after all?), so an offensive to take the remaining sections of the Gaza Strip would probably involve significantly greater civilian casualties than the stuff which has happened to date (which, again, by the standards of sieges of cities this size, has so far resulted in remarkably few civilian casualties).

The humane thing to do would be to cut off supplies and wait for them to surrender -- this would cost far fewer lives than a bombing campaign followed by ground invasion (and is probably also the humane option WRT Yemen) -- but that would require substantially greater international buy-in.

Vosem, your link says 52% of Democrat voters literally don't give a sh**t about what Fetterman thinks about Israel-Palestine,that's the real "plurality" there. Most see that their buying power has been reduced in the last 4 years and that Biden is a wet wipe.

How is “most don’t care, of those who do more are invested in the US continuing to support the Israeli campaign” any different from what I’ve said?

Biden’s stance has been unpopular because among Americans — and I think this is seen differently abroad — he is seen as equivocating. His most prominent primary challenger, Dean Phillips, is funded by longtime Democratic donors who believe Biden is not pro-Israel enough. Yes, Phillips won’t win, but he exists, whereas no candidate even emerged holding the opposite perspective. It’s dumb to deny that there’s a substantial appetite for a more strongly pro-Israel American left. (The reverse is also true, and though their absolute numbers are smaller they’re much louder, which introduces confusion about the state of play.)

People who are mad at Biden because prices rose are going to vote for a guy who thinks pro-Palestinian protesters should be deported, because that’s the actual other side of this debate, not some world where US support for the Gaza campaign declines.

If you can't even distinguish between Democratic voters, what Democratic donor's want, and Democratic rank and file members/staff administration, there's no point debating. Your post is a classic example of what you have engaged in throughout this entire thread : just bending reality to suit your narrative.

The IDF salutes you for your bravery Vosem.

My entire point is that Biden’s staff/administration is in a different place than the voters and donors

[Meclazine for Israel]

Israel did not start this. Israel did not want this.

Hamas terrorist stronghold in Gaza.

Shejaiya Neighbourhood

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1FBex7NmYP/

Given the release of new rape and beheading videos of innocent Israeli's from October 7th together with the kidnapped hostages not being released, one cannot envisage Israel letting up any time soon.

One would imagine that the Gazan's are starting to regret their murder, rape and kidnapping spree of October 7th.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

The JSIL terrorists were literally hoist by their own petard

https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1749808457686147200

[GeneralMacArthur]

Hamas responded to Israel's "peace for hostages" offer by counter-proposing that Israel release 6,000 captured Hamas fighters in return for 132 hostages.  That's 45 fighters for every 1 innocent civilian.

Obviously, Israel rejected this, and Al-Jazeera wrote an article with the headline Israel Rejects Gaza Peace Plan that's gone absolutely red-hot viral on social media.  I've never seen an article get reposted this much.

Social media really has just deprived people of all critical thinking skills and turned everything into campism.