Israel-Gaza war

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/yair_rosenberg/status/1712178004120514665?s=46

[afleitch]

This doesn't appear to confirm that they were "directly targeted" as the Twitter post postulates.

Every nation should have basic awareness that the Red Cross/Crescent operate where there is dire humanitarian need and this is symbolic of both the long standing situation in Gaza, where they need to operate and of Israel's indiscriminate retaliation against civilian locales where they are based.

'Directly targeted' or not.

[Vosem]

https://twitter.com/yair_rosenberg/status/1712178004120514665?s=46

The specific minister they're yelling at in this interaction, Idit Silman, is currently the Environmental Protection Minister in Bibi's government, but is probably better known for having been one of the two renegade Yamina MKs, together with Amichai Shikli, who brought down the Bennett government and caused there to be early elections (which Bibi won) in 2022, so actually much of the current Supreme Court crisis is, in a but-for sense, literally her fault and that of one other individual (though I don't know how much it makes sense to blame people who set off an election for its outcome; in some sense the voters did that).

[PSOL]

We are at the point where Palestine has been able to hold onto Israeli territory for more than half a week, with no end in sight that Palestinian offensives are going to end this week and that most soldiers have embedded and fortified their position in southern Israel. What paralysis is this that the Israeli army refuses to quickly move to secure its own cities.

[oldtimer]

This thread is a total trainwreck and really difficult to follow because of all the spam, side arguments, and fake news. Could we please keep it a bit more in order?

Some questions:

• What is the status of Israel's ground operations? Is all Israeli territory freed now from the militants, or are there areas where Hamas still holds, or just areas where Hamas group are still roaming in Israel?
• Has Israel launched any sort of ground operation into Gaza yet? Obviously not a full-scale invasion, but like any probing or any border areas they've crossed?
• What is the situation with the Lebanon border?
• What is going on along the West Bank border? Are Israeli settlers and/or troops evacuating or being redirected? Have there been any skirmishes there, or are things very quiet on that side?

Many thanks in advance for any answers.

Nothing much happening besides air strikes and missile strikes from both sides for now.

[Red Velvet]

We are at the point where Palestine has been able to hold onto Israeli territory for more than half a week, with no end in sight that Palestinian offensives are going to end this week and that most soldiers have embedded and fortified their position in southern Israel. What paralysis is this that the Israeli army refuses to quickly move to secure its own cities.

War on land is way more competitive then people usually give credit for, especially if the bigger powers hold on using their full power against their adversary.

It has been like that for a while now, USA in Middle East, Russia in Ukraine, now Israel in their own land too. I don’t doubt Israel regains their territory and this conflict ends sooner than the others but it’s not a piece of cake like people would assume just because it’s against Palestine.

Big Determinant: Israelis feel less sympathetic to this war and their own government than most expected. Netanyahu has associated himself with the biggest far-right leaderships of the world and prioritized Jewish religious extremists and their claims on the West Bank over the safety of the country.

Being way too hawkish can actually bring more danger to your country, which is why it’s important to build a balance. Israel has garnered a bad global reputation lately because of their leader AND he now also shows himself to be deeply incompetent as well. Not surprising people are pissed with him.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/yair_rosenberg/status/1712178004120514665?s=46

Rally ‘round the flag (but not the government)

[Bacon King]

We are at the point where Palestine has been able to hold onto Israeli territory for more than half a week, with no end in sight that Palestinian offensives are going to end this week and that most soldiers have embedded and fortified their position in southern Israel. What paralysis is this that the Israeli army refuses to quickly move to secure its own cities.

this is entirely my own speculation but I doubt this remains the case for long.

They have already called up 360,000 reservists so we know the IDF is drastically scaling up their capabilities. Tactically it just doesn't make sense to attack on even terms when they can wait a few days and attack a target they outnumber 5-to-1 or more. So the IDF forces in the field are probably being cautious and advancing incrementally, creating a secure perimeter from which the newly arriving forces will be able to continue the counterattack. (obviously the initial response was extremely urgent to save as many civilians as possible but by this point the remaining survivors are all hostages in Gaza)

I'm certain other standing IDF units are also joining up, to be clear, it's definitely not gonna be exclusively an army of reservists. That said however we know a significant portion of the IDF has been tied up protecting West Bank settlements and those aren't forces they can fully withdraw/redeploy on short notice without either evacuating the settlements left undefended (which we'd hear about) or risking more civilian massacres by letting remain in such an extremely vulnerable location

[Saint Milei]

Bernie Sanders is one of the greatest

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1712123827273019648?t=OmWYJ7Syi-aY_CMxR95N...

Translation: my base still hates Israel so I must capitulate to their demands. War is bad when it's Israel. It's good when it's against russia

[Bacon King]

That said however we know a significant portion of the IDF has been tied up protecting West Bank settlements and those aren't forces they can fully withdraw/redeploy on short notice without either evacuating the settlements left undefended (which we'd hear about) or risking more civilian massacres by letting remain in such an extremely vulnerable location

oh i suppose they are taking a third option:

Settlers are not evacuating, quite the opposite; yesterday they killed three Palestinians in the village of Qusra, and Ben-Gvir plans to give them all AR-15s so they can "secure" things themselves.

[Coldstream]

Netanyahu is the Scorpion and Gantz is the frog. Cannot believe he’d trust him under any circumstances.

[kwabbit]

This thread is a total trainwreck and really difficult to follow because of all the spam, side arguments, and fake news. Could we please keep it a bit more in order?

Some questions:

• What is the status of Israel's ground operations? Is all Israeli territory freed now from the militants, or are there areas where Hamas still holds, or just areas where Hamas group are still roaming in Israel?
• Has Israel launched any sort of ground operation into Gaza yet? Obviously not a full-scale invasion, but like any probing or any border areas they've crossed?
• What is the situation with the Lebanon border?
• What is going on along the West Bank border? Are Israeli settlers and/or troops evacuating or being redirected? Have there been any skirmishes there, or are things very quiet on that side?

Many thanks in advance for any answers.

1. As of yesterday Israel announced that it had secured the border with Gaza. I don't think there are any areas Hamas can be said to control, though there may be some isolated mop-up operations.
2. No; IDF is massing troops for a planned ground offensive but hasn't crossed the border on land yet.
3. There has been some action on the borders with Lebanon and Syria, mortars and rockets answered with artillery; this morning, for example, Hezbollah fired an anti-tank missile at a military post on the border and Israel responded with a strike in Lebanon. These sort of small-scale exchanges have been occurring pretty regularly. But the large-scale operation this morning was a false alarm.
4. Seems funny at this point to speak of a "West Bank border." Settlers are not evacuating, quite the opposite; yesterday they killed three Palestinians in the village of Qusra, and Ben-Gvir plans to give them all AR-15s so they can "secure" things themselves.

Aren’t like 30-40% of the settlers Haredi? I know economics reasons are a lot of the reason why settlers move there versus civilian governed Israel, but how many are Ben-Gvirite hyper Zionists who take pride in living on occupied land?

[Aurelius2]

This thread is a total trainwreck and really difficult to follow because of all the spam, side arguments, and fake news. Could we please keep it a bit more in order?

Some questions:

• What is the status of Israel's ground operations? Is all Israeli territory freed now from the militants, or are there areas where Hamas still holds, or just areas where Hamas group are still roaming in Israel?
• Has Israel launched any sort of ground operation into Gaza yet? Obviously not a full-scale invasion, but like any probing or any border areas they've crossed?
• What is the situation with the Lebanon border?
• What is going on along the West Bank border? Are Israeli settlers and/or troops evacuating or being redirected? Have there been any skirmishes there, or are things very quiet on that side?

Many thanks in advance for any answers.

1. As of yesterday Israel announced that it had secured the border with Gaza. I don't think there are any areas Hamas can be said to control, though there may be some isolated mop-up operations.
2. No; IDF is massing troops for a planned ground offensive but hasn't crossed the border on land yet.
3. There has been some action on the borders with Lebanon and Syria, mortars and rockets answered with artillery; this morning, for example, Hezbollah fired an anti-tank missile at a military post on the border and Israel responded with a strike in Lebanon. These sort of small-scale exchanges have been occurring pretty regularly. But the large-scale operation this morning was a false alarm.
4. Seems funny at this point to speak of a "West Bank border." Settlers are not evacuating, quite the opposite; yesterday they killed three Palestinians in the village of Qusra, and Ben-Gvir plans to give them all AR-15s so they can "secure" things themselves.

Aren’t like 30-40% of the settlers Haredi? I know economics reasons are a lot of the reason why settlers move there versus civilian governed Israel, but how many are Ben-Gvirite hyper Zionists who take pride in living on occupied land?

The stereotypical settler you are thinking of is dati-leumi, not Haredi. You are correct that around 30% of settlers are Haredi, but Haredim in places like Beitar Illit aren't usually particularly Zionist from what I understand (Israeli posters, correct me if I am wrong on this point). There are chardals, yes, but there aren't all that many of them. In general Haredim, even in the west bank, are more concerned with studying Torah and maintaining their government-subsidized perks and exemptions than growing the footprint of the Jewish state. The super jingoistic settlers are mostly "dati", a category in Israel which I would say loosely corresponds with Modern Orthodoxy in the US.

EDIT: I just checked cinyc's election results map. 58% of Beitar Illit's vote went to UTJ and another 31% went to Shas. "Only" 7% went to RZ+OY. Compare this to Efrat, a nearby non-Haredi settlement, where RZ+OY got 48% of the vote, Likud 20% and Yamina 15%. Shas and UTJ combined got only 3%.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Uh oh...

Israel was warned by Egypt of potential violence three days before Hamas' deadly cross-border raid, a US congressional panel chairman has said.

House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee head Michael McCaul told reporters of the alleged warning.

...

"We know that Egypt has warned the Israelis three days prior that an event like this could happen," Mr McCaul told reporters following a closed-door intelligence briefing on Wednesday for lawmakers about the Middle East crisis, according to AFP news agency.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047

[emailking]

Biden said he told Netanyahu to operate by the rules of war. In the speech to Jewish community leaders just now.

[OSR stands with Israel]

We are at the point where Palestine has been able to hold onto Israeli territory for more than half a week, with no end in sight that Palestinian offensives are going to end this week and that most soldiers have embedded and fortified their position in southern Israel. What paralysis is this that the Israeli army refuses to quickly move to secure its own cities.

War on land is way more competitive then people usually give credit for, especially if the bigger powers hold on using their full power against their adversary.

What are you talking about lol . In Iraq the US toppled Saddam’s government in less than 6 weeks with very few casualties , and the government we put in place is still standing . In Afghanistan we easily won the conventional phase and would have continued to keep winning it if the public was willing to accept permanent occupation of Afghanistan which they Weren’t.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Bernie Sanders is one of the greatest

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1712123827273019648?t=OmWYJ7Syi-aY_CMxR95N...

Translation: my base still hates Israel so I must capitulate to their demands. War is bad when it's Israel. It's good when it's against russia

You're the most brain-dead, non-banned commentator here.

[Unbeatable Titan Susan Collins]

Snowstalker is really the Jacind of this thread

[kwabbit]

This thread is a total trainwreck and really difficult to follow because of all the spam, side arguments, and fake news. Could we please keep it a bit more in order?

Some questions:

• What is the status of Israel's ground operations? Is all Israeli territory freed now from the militants, or are there areas where Hamas still holds, or just areas where Hamas group are still roaming in Israel?
• Has Israel launched any sort of ground operation into Gaza yet? Obviously not a full-scale invasion, but like any probing or any border areas they've crossed?
• What is the situation with the Lebanon border?
• What is going on along the West Bank border? Are Israeli settlers and/or troops evacuating or being redirected? Have there been any skirmishes there, or are things very quiet on that side?

Many thanks in advance for any answers.

1. As of yesterday Israel announced that it had secured the border with Gaza. I don't think there are any areas Hamas can be said to control, though there may be some isolated mop-up operations.
2. No; IDF is massing troops for a planned ground offensive but hasn't crossed the border on land yet.
3. There has been some action on the borders with Lebanon and Syria, mortars and rockets answered with artillery; this morning, for example, Hezbollah fired an anti-tank missile at a military post on the border and Israel responded with a strike in Lebanon. These sort of small-scale exchanges have been occurring pretty regularly. But the large-scale operation this morning was a false alarm.
4. Seems funny at this point to speak of a "West Bank border." Settlers are not evacuating, quite the opposite; yesterday they killed three Palestinians in the village of Qusra, and Ben-Gvir plans to give them all AR-15s so they can "secure" things themselves.

Aren’t like 30-40% of the settlers Haredi? I know economics reasons are a lot of the reason why settlers move there versus civilian governed Israel, but how many are Ben-Gvirite hyper Zionists who take pride in living on occupied land?

The stereotypical settler you are thinking of is dati-leumi, not Haredi. You are correct that around 30% of settlers are Haredi, but Haredim in places like Beitar Illit aren't usually particularly Zionist from what I understand (Israeli posters, correct me if I am wrong on this point). There are chardals, yes, but there aren't all that many of them. In general Haredim, even in the west bank, are more concerned with studying Torah and maintaining their government-subsidized perks and exemptions than growing the footprint of the Jewish state. The super aggro settlers are mostly "dati", a category in Israel which I would say loosely corresponds with Modern Orthodoxy in the US.

EDIT: I just checked cinyc's election results map. 58% of Beitar Illit's vote went to UTJ and another 31% went to Shas. "Only" 7% went to RZ+OY. Compare this to Efrat, a nearby non-Haredi settlement, where RZ+OY got 48% of the vote, Likud 20% and Yamina 15%. Shas and UTJ combined got only 3%.

Yeah, my question was prompted because I knew that Haredi are non-Zionist and a large part of the settlers were Haredi, but didn’t know the mindset of the non-Haredi settlers. But it sounds like even the non-Haredi are not secular either. Is it a matter of dati self-selecting to become settlers and bring their far-right inclinations with them or is the precarious of being a settler drawing them to far-right parties?

It’s a pretty unique situation. One has to wonder what a hypothetical American settlement of Baja would be like. It could draw marginal, poorer groups or it could draw MAGA nuts. It wouldn’t reflect the rest of the country though.

[WalterWhite]

Biden said he told Netanyahu to operate by the rules of war. In the speech to Jewish community leaders just now.

What is wrong with telling Netanyahu not to commit war crimes?

[Velasco]

We are at the point where Palestine has been able to hold onto Israeli territory for more than half a week, with no end in sight that Palestinian offensives are going to end this week and that most soldiers have embedded and fortified their position in southern Israel. What paralysis is this that the Israeli army refuses to quickly move to secure its own cities.

The offensive into Israel was launched by Hamas -an armed militia based in Gaza- not by Palestine. Neither Palestine as an entity ruled by the "Authority" nor Palestine as a people, only Hamas.

[Aurelius2]

Joe Biden appears to have confirmed the reports of beheaded babies and children.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/yair_rosenberg/status/1712178004120514665?s=46

Rally ‘round the flag (but not the government)

If there is one silver lining to all of this, maybe the country will finally be rid of Bibi and Likud. I guess the question would be how his successor, when he is finally gone, could salvage this situation. I don't envy them.

[Angel of Death]

Before all of this even happened, Smotrich had actually advocated to reestablish settlements in Gaza. I can't even put it beyond the realm of possibility that some "Hilltop Youth"-like characters will follow the IDF back into Gaza seeking to put this into practice.

[Birdish]

Yep, Biden said in his speech that he saw pictures of terrorists beheading children.

There's no coming back from that. I don't know how Israel lets Hamas survive this war.