The Gun Control Thread!

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

That said, I am in favor of allowing concealed carry, but not because of any nebulously claimed reduction in crime rates.  However, I'm also in favor of gun registration and licensing requirements.  Its supposed to be a "well-regulated militia" not "every yahoo can shoot in a random direction", so while I don't want the goverment to prevent me from owning automatic weapons, I have no problem with their requiring that they be able to know what the milita has and restricting the use of certain weapons to those who have demonstrated that they can use them in a responsible manner.

I'm guessing these whackos would disagree with you.

Anyway, as much as I'd like that, how would determine that?  This is a subjective question... and what constitutes maturity?

Not being a convicted felon or an insane person, of legal age, and having completed a training course.  Basically the same sort of standard as is usually the case for a professional licence in most states.

[MN-Troy]

Minnesota as many other states do, has what is called 'single subject rule' and this provision prevents unrelated measures to be passed without debate or notice. A Ramsey County Judge ruled that the Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act (MCPPA) was unconstitutional because it was attached to an unrelated DNR bill. However the Minnesota State Supreme Court has a ruling on what process an amendment must follow not to violate the law. This process was followed by the MCPPA, and the issue whether the amendment was germane was one the highly debated subject at the State Capitol and it was passed by a hefty margin.

What this advocacy group did was to do some 'judge shopping and found a sympathetic judge ; however, it's my opinion this ruling is unlikely to stand when its appealed.

On a personal question to Managing Editor Ilikeverin is why you are happy about this ruling? Let's say the law is overturned and that means the law reverts back to the original gun law. The original gun law allows permitted guns into school, no penalty for having a gun while under the influence, and which permits are discretionary.

Be careful of what you ask for.

[MN-Troy]

Like criminals care whether or not carrying a gun is legal or not.

So we must make it harder to get a gun.

Besides, Concealed Carry would only help crminials... for instance, if a criminal was walking to shoot someone, but was stopped by a cop:

Cop: Is that a gun you're hiding?
Criminal: Er, why, yes, yes it is.
Cop: Can I see your Concealed Carry permit?
Criminal: Here you are...

And then the criminal would walk on and shoot a family of 8.

Let's define the word 'criminal

A criminal is someone who has been convicted of a crime, therefore such a person would not be granted a permit under the Minnesota law.

I have yet to hear of any major gun crimes committed by legal permits since the MCPPA was passed last year.

[MN-Troy]

This just in:

The muder rate in the Twin Cities has spiked 500% as innocent citizens get gunned down, because they have no means of protecting themselves.

Crime figures aren't available for dates that recent, I think

Besides, AFAIK the crime rate has not gone down since the law was passed.

Instead of the looking at whether the crime rate has gone down; look at whether or not the crime rate involving guns has gone up since the law was passed.
 
The supporters of the bill at the Capitol never once mentioned that the passage of this bill would lower the crime rate.

[© tweed]

Look at DC - they have the toughest gun laws in the nation, and yet the highest crime rate. DC is living proof gun control dosen't work.

DC is poor, urban, and black.

Minnesota for the most part isn't.

[orunje]

An armed society is a polite society.

Example:  I walk into 7-11 with the intent of robbing it.  There are 7 customers.  Will I be more or less likely to carry out my robbery knowing that these people might be shooting back?

Result:  Knowing that several people might take offense to me taking their money and decide to shoot me, I quietly shoplift a pack of gum and leave.

[ilikeverin]

Crimes (well, murders, I'm guessing) are often commited in warm blood.

Example: Hennepin County sheriff's deputies have arrested the man accused of fatally shooting a Minneapolis man outside a pizza parlor near the University of Minneapolis.

Vilaysack Sirimanothay, 23, turned himself in and was booked into the county jail Thursday. Authorities had been seeking him in connection with the Oct. 16 death of Edward Reynolds, 25.

According to the criminal complaint against Sirimanothay and Saroun Sareth, 24, the two got into a confrontation with Reynolds about 7:30 p.m. in the Leaning Tower of Pizza at 2501 University Av. SE.

Police were called, and restaurant employees broke up the fight. About 1½ hours later, Sareth and Sirimanothay returned to the restaurant, as did Reynolds and his girlfriend, and there was a second confrontation between Reynolds and the other men.

The complaint said that police were called again. Before they arrived, the men went out to the patio. Witnesses said they saw a man, identified as Sirimanothay, reach inside his jacket, take out a gun and fire several shots at Reynolds.

Sirimanothay is being held without bail, and Sareth is being held in lieu of $750,000 bail.

What Did Not Happen: The argument escalated, but then Vilaysack took a few seconds, and thought to himself, "Oh, that Edward fellow may have a gun.  Oh no!  I'd better not shoot him!" and walked away.

(Also, if this occured in, say, Texas, Vilaysack would not take a few seconds to think to himself, "Oh, if I shoot him, I could get the death penalty.  Hmmmm..." and walk away.

[Dr. Cynic]

I'm a moderate on this issue. I believe everyone who does not have a criminal record should be allowed a gun. I would never allow on the spot buying, though.

[orunje]

Crimes (well, murders, I'm guessing) are often commited in warm blood.

Example: Hennepin County sheriff's deputies have arrested the man accused of fatally shooting a Minneapolis man outside a pizza parlor near the University of Minneapolis.

Vilaysack Sirimanothay, 23, turned himself in and was booked into the county jail Thursday. Authorities had been seeking him in connection with the Oct. 16 death of Edward Reynolds, 25.

According to the criminal complaint against Sirimanothay and Saroun Sareth, 24, the two got into a confrontation with Reynolds about 7:30 p.m. in the Leaning Tower of Pizza at 2501 University Av. SE.

Police were called, and restaurant employees broke up the fight. About 1½ hours later, Sareth and Sirimanothay returned to the restaurant, as did Reynolds and his girlfriend, and there was a second confrontation between Reynolds and the other men.

The complaint said that police were called again. Before they arrived, the men went out to the patio. Witnesses said they saw a man, identified as Sirimanothay, reach inside his jacket, take out a gun and fire several shots at Reynolds.

Sirimanothay is being held without bail, and Sareth is being held in lieu of $750,000 bail.

What Did Not Happen: The argument escalated, but then Vilaysack took a few seconds, and thought to himself, "Oh, that Edward fellow may have a gun.  Oh no!  I'd better not shoot him!" and walked away.

(Also, if this occured in, say, Texas, Vilaysack would not take a few seconds to think to himself, "Oh, if I shoot him, I could get the death penalty.  Hmmmm..." and walk away.

This is true, but limiting the ability to carry a concealed handgun did not affect this case.  As you said yourself, the man left and came back.  Did this man go home to pick up his gun?  Or steal it from a friend or family he was living with.  No law will ever change this sort of premeditated act.

[Redefeatbush04]

I have a relatively simple position: gun control is GOOD in some areas and BAD in others.

In Idaho, guns are usually used for hunting, or for protection. Restrictions are just annoyances that do relatively little but frustrate.

In New Jersey, guns are usually used for hunting people instead of animals. There is no other purpose but to kill people with.

I believe that criminals will get guns anyway, understand that. I also believe that people have a constitutional right to carry a gun, and that in doing so one may protect themselves against criminals. I also believe that certain protective restrictions need to be put on guns. Gun control is necessary to keep order, but the emphasis should be placed on personal responciblity, and we should punish those that commit crimes rather than those that by a gun to protect their little 2 year old from robbers. Speaking of kids, child safety locks are necessary. Registration is also necessary. It should however, be left up to the states because each state has a unique set of circumstances.

[Richard]

In New Jersey, guns are usually used for hunting people instead of animals. There is no other purpose but to kill people with.

You probably think that since I live in Toronto, almost like New Jersey, there is no purpose for a gun but to kill people.

I just so happens to be on my university's sharp shooting team.  With a gun, yes, not a bow.  A gun.

You're very narrow minded.

[Alcon]

I believe strongly in freedom with responsibility. One of my baseline views is that we need more freedom, but we need more accountability. Here's the gist:

I think that we should be wary of gun control. I believe it is constitutionally protected. However, at the same time, some things that people do are unacceptable. I support waiting periods. That doesn't stop people from owning guns. I support strict registration standards. Anyone who really wants to own a gun should be able to get one. However, we need to not become the McDonald's of assault weapons.

In any case, I believe that people should be able to have guns. However, anyone who keeps their guns unlocked with children in the house deserve what their idiocy sews. If their kid brings a gun to school, they should be punished. Their kid should be punished. If their kid kills another kid with it, or themself, they should be punished (of course, excluding suicides or totally unavoidable situations.)

I'm typing this while watching T.V., so it probably doesn't entirely flow. Sorry about that.

[Redefeatbush04]

In New Jersey, guns are usually used for hunting people instead of animals. There is no other purpose but to kill people with.

You probably think that since I live in Toronto, almost like New Jersey, there is no purpose for a gun but to kill people.

I just so happens to be on my university's sharp shooting team.  With a gun, yes, not a bow.  A gun.

You're very narrow minded.

I apologize. To kill people or to practice killing people...better?

[Confabulator]

We need to make it a lot harder to illegally get a gun.  My uncle in Vermont is not going to kill someone with his gun.  But the drugged-out gangster in New York is.  We just have to take the necessary steps to prevent guns from leaking onto the streets.

[Cashcow]

Less pistols, more rifles.

[??????????]

We need to make it a lot harder to illegally get a gun.  My uncle in Vermont is not going to kill someone with his gun.  But the drugged-out gangster in New York is.  We just have to take the necessary steps to prevent guns from leaking onto the streets.

Other then more police raids I see no way to stop illegal gun buys. Legalizing some drugs MAY help the problem somewhat though I doubt it.

[angus]

Less pistols, more rifles.

nah, they're too damned hard to conceal.  not being able to hide it kinda takes away at least half the fun.

And for about 20 grand you can get a pistol made *entirely* of plastic, so you can get it into a federal building or aboard a plane.  Ammo, however, is a bit trickier. 

[??????????]

Less pistols, more rifles.

nah, they're too damned hard to conceal.  not being able to hide it kinda takes away at least half the fun.

And for about 20 grand you can get a pistol made *entirely* of plastic, so you can get it into a federal building or aboard a plane.  Ammo, however, is a bit trickier. 

Sawed off shotgun.

[angus]

LOL.  I should have thought of that.

[Engineer]

Part of lowering crime committed with a gun is preventive, by increasing the penalties for committing a crime with a gun.

For example:  Rob a store - 2 years
Rob a store with a gun - 17 years
Rob a store and use the gun -27 years
Rob a store, use the gun and injure somebody - 47 years
Rob a store, use a the gun and kill somebody - life.

In other words, standard increased penalties (say 15 years minimum) for commissiion of a crime with a gun.

[angus]

Rob a store for the purpose of shelter - 4 years

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1274&storyid=2256514

be careful what you wish for   

[Redefeatbush04]

Less pistols, more rifles.

That is an excellent idea

[Mikem]

Less pistols, more rifles.

That is an excellent idea

How can I protect myself on the street by carrying around a rifle?  If someone aimed to rob me, they would just pop me off before I even saw them.  Plus how can you carry a rifle around all day?  makes no sense.

I don't think that everyone should be allowed to CARRY a pistol though.  I think there should be very strict restrictions, maybe even a training course.  But if you need it, as I do, you should be able to have it, and have it loaded.  It sucks that I can carry but it has to be in a gay looking fanny pack thingy unloaded.  You can try and scare someone off with it, but if it came down to it you would get popped before you could grap your clip.

[WiseGuy]

It's kind of funny that my church had a sign up (AFAIK they still do).  'Blessed are the peacemakers', no?

Do you mean a Colt Peacemaker?  LOL

Seriously, I believe that everyone should be able to get a gun, as long as they don't have a criminal record or are insane or something like that.  The Second Amendment provides for the right to keep and bear arms.  I think training courses are a good idea.  I also agree with the ten, twenty, life plan of graduating penalties for gun-related crimes.  Punish people who commit the crimes, not the people who are using their guns responsibly and even protecting other people by having them in their possession, concealed and otherwise.