A sorority at the University of Wyoming has been forced to include a 6-foot-2 trans-identified male.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Fraternities and Sororities shouldn't exist anyways, so I'm not sympathetic here.

Sometimes you just got to enjoy the ride.

I fail to see how a hardon, even if this actually happened and isn't like the other grift lies, is actually something objectionable? Unless the individual was voyeuristically exposing themselves and jerking it, this is a nonstory.

Yeah, why would women be uncomfortable with somebody getting hard while watching them change? What a strange thing to complain about. I personally love it when people get noticeably horny while staring at me complete normal daily activities.



It’s at times like these that I remember Atlas is >95% male, and almost 100% ignorant of basic social norms. I don’t think these people have a legal case, but if the allegations presented are accurate I could obviously see why they were offended.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I like how the headline and this thread title both seem to imply that 6'2" women haven't always been a thing.

Yet another example of how transphobia affects cis women who don’t conform to certain notions of femeninity.

[Хahar 🤔]

Posting a thread title that is a blatant lie should be infracted. Embedding a post from Clay Travis should also be infracted. Doing both at the same time in a just world would warrant a ban.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Fraternities and Sororities shouldn't exist anyways, so I'm not sympathetic here.

Sometimes you just got to enjoy the ride.

I fail to see how a hardon, even if this actually happened and isn't like the other grift lies, is actually something objectionable? Unless the individual was voyeuristically exposing themselves and jerking it, this is a nonstory.

Yeah, why would women be uncomfortable with somebody getting hard while watching them change? What a strange thing to complain about. I personally love it when people get noticeably horny while staring at me complete normal daily activities.



It’s at times like these that I remember Atlas is >95% male, and almost 100% ignorant of basic social norms. I don’t think these people have a legal case, but if the allegations presented are accurate I could obviously see why they were offended.

Which is a big if, of course, considering the rest of the content of their lawsuit.

[Ferguson97]

I see right-wingers have moved on from “no trans women in sports because of perceived advantage” and straight into “trans women pose an inherent threat to cis women.”

[SteveRogers]

https://twitter.com/Outkick/status/1696256708589310320

Concerning.

Anyway, this will probably reach ten pages by tomorrow.

Do you want to maybe change your thread title to something that has any bearing on reality whatsoever or shows that you actually  read the article you linked to?

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

The majority of the sorority did vote them her in, but not all of them supported the decision. Regardless of the legal situation, I don't see how its transphobic for some of the girls to be concerned about a bio man woman getting erect to them as they claim.

By this logic sororities should ban all non strictly Heteros

(also fixed the misgendering free of charge)

They is a gender neutral pronoun and can be used in all situations without “misgendering” anyone.

No. If a person has a clearly preferred gender then using they is not correct. Like imagine going “this is my friend Jo, Jo uses he/him. Aren’t they a nice person!”

That is just objectively wrong. They is a gender neutral pronoun in the singular and is hence never “incorrect” to use with any person. This is how the word has historically been used (when it has been used as a singular pronoun). It isn’t some third grammatical gender that is used if and only if a person identifies with it.

There is no requirement that you have to use the maximum possible level of specificity at all times. If there were pronouns wouldn’t even exist— you would just use the noun in all circumstances.

No, using they/ them to refer to a single trans person you know uses binary pronoun is pretty much always done when someone would like to use the opposite pronoun but is too chicken to handle the consequences. Most binary trans people hate being called they them, because it's referring to us in a way they never refer to cis people specifically to not gender us correctly but without facing the social penalty for misgendering. Trudge me, the vast majority of trans people agree with me. And historically, the singular they was used when gender was not known, not when referring to a specific man or woman.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Our sorority actually had an obscure entry in our charter that allowed anybody of any gender to rush, though to my knowledge we never had any biological males (seriously) try to do so. 

[Senator Incitatus]

Yes, this is straightforward freedom of association stuff. Sororities are free to admit (or exclude) transgender people as they sees fit. Can't go to court because you don't like how a private organization is interpreting a word in its own bylaws.

You definitely can, but this is a particularly stupid example of it. Just find a better sorority and file a police report for sexual harassment.

[Senator Incitatus]

Yes, this is straightforward freedom of association stuff. Sororities are free to admit (or exclude) transgender people as they sees fit. Can't go to court because you don't like how a private organization is interpreting a word in its own bylaws.

You definitely can, but this is a particularly stupid example of it. Just find a better sorority and file a police report for sexual harassment.

You can go to court for anything, but it's an otherwise-undefined term in a set of bylaws that explicitly allow the chapter leadership to interpret undefined terms. There's not a case here.

Admittedly had not read the case or the article closely, so I was only going off your comment which said you can't challenge the interpretation of bylaw terms. If the bylaws were written this way, you are correct.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Our sorority actually had an obscure entry in our charter that allowed anybody of any gender to rush, though to my knowledge we never had any biological males (seriously) try to do so. 

Technically most Greek life has such a clause to avoid gender discrimination lawsuits, but it’s never the case

[DaleCooper]

Yes, this is straightforward freedom of association stuff. Sororities are free to admit (or exclude) transgender people as they sees fit. Can't go to court because you don't like how a private organization is interpreting a word in its own bylaws.

You definitely can, but this is a particularly stupid example of it. Just find a better sorority and file a police report for sexual harassment.

It brings up an interesting question of whether an organization affiliated with the university can deprive women of female-only private facilities, even if the majority of women involved are responsible for the situation in the first place. The big conflict in trans issues aside from the childhood transition thing seems to be between an apparent nationwide majority of cisgender women who say they support trans-inclusive spaces and the much more vocal minority of women who are opposed to it.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/Outkick/status/1696256708589310320

Concerning.

Self-described Libertarian is concerned that the state refuses to overrule a private organization on who its members can be. (And Libertarians wonder why people think they're evil clowns.)

[7,052,770]

Are the mods really not going to change the false title of this thread?

If the sorority's members themselves voted the transgender member in, they were not "forced."

[Ferguson97]

Are the mods really not going to change the false title of this thread?

If the sorority's members themselves voted the transgender member in, they were not "forced."

The myth of "consenual" sorority membership

Trans girl: "I consent!"

Majority of sorority: "I consent!"

Atlas: "I don't!"

"Isn't there someone you forgot to ask?"

[heatcharger]

The plaintiffs did a bad job and apparently so did Outkick. There's a lot more absurdity to this story than they're letting on.

[Ferguson97]

There's a lot more absurdity to this story than they're letting on.

You have absolutely no basis to support this claim, you just hate trans people.

[heatcharger]

There's a lot more absurdity to this story than they're letting on.

You have absolutely no basis to support this claim, you just hate trans people.

I do have a basis unfortunately. The Outkick tweet is definitely inaccurate -- but this X user asked a question on my mind as well:

https://twitter.com/vs_1244/status/1696339989427052802?s=46&t=J_equ31A3oC9D3...

Found an article from March about the lawsuit from an equally reputable source. Note they used the pseudonym "Terry Smith" for Langford at the time of the article.

Looks like there was a new voting mechanism put in place...

Typically all chapter members must vote on a new member, unless they are excused, and the vote takes place using an electronic voting system on the phone app “Omega Recruit.” But in Smith’s case, not all chapter member voted and the vote took place through Google Poll, the lawsuit said.

And the GPA requirement was waived...

The plaintiffs also claimed Smith's membership application was evaluated using a different standard than other recruits as Smith had a cumulative GPA below the Kappa requirement of at least 2.7 GPA, as under the House Bylaws.

If you take this on face-value...

"Smith has, while watching members enter the sorority house, had an erection visible” through leggings, the complaint said.

Though Smith did not sleepover, Smith returned to the sorority house the following morning and “stood silently in the corner of the room near the door while other pledges changed from sleeping garments into other clothing,” the lawsuit said.  

Smith allegedly saw a woman not wearing a bra change shirts. After that incident, “other Kappa members informed Ms. Doe VI that while watching her” Smith had “become sexually aroused,” the complaint said, and Smith allegedly “repeatedly asked” Doe VI about her romantic attachments after the encounter.

But ultimately, the plaintiffs did a pretty bad job, considering that:

The organization added that it “values diversity” and does not discriminate based on gender identity.

I feel bad for everyone involved, including Langford. But there are limitations to what can be accepted as reality.

[soundchaser]

Our sorority actually had an obscure entry in our charter that allowed anybody of any gender to rush, though to my knowledge we never had any biological males (seriously) try to do so. 

Technically most Greek life has such a clause to avoid gender discrimination lawsuits, but it’s never the case

When my fraternity was (briefly) considered "professional" rather than "social" in the 1970s, it was required to initiate women because of Title IX. It's a weird time in the organization's history, and I've met one or two of the 250-ish Sinfonians from that period who are still called "Brother [Last Name]."

Which is to say -- discussions like these have been had before; this isn't some world-ending crisis, despite what some conservatives here would have you think.