Will Mike Pence be regarded as a historical hero in the future?

[Alben Barkley]

He did the bare minimum. He didn’t break the law and attempt to carry out a fascist coup, and apparently even then only reluctantly and under the advice of an infamously stupid previous Republican VP from Indiana.

If that makes him a hero, then I’m a much bigger hero than Mike Pence as I also have not attempted any fascist coups. Well, outside of HOI4 anyway.

[DaleCooper]

Lmao, no.

[Pres Mike]

One could make the argument that no one did more to elect Trump in 2016 than Pence. Pence was key to getting the full backing of the Republican Party.

[DPKdebator]

Pence will be a mere footnote as Trump’s VP. He is perhaps the least significant VP in decades… HW, Quayle, Gore, Cheney, Biden, and Harris all had far more notable public profiles in office.

[Aurelius2]

I think the credit goes more to Quayle than Pence.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

No, the test is gonna come in naming highways or airport nothing is gonna be named after Trump or Pence except Trump Towers and 2017 tax cuts that's enough

Biden will get a school or building or roads or Airport named after him

[Mr. Ukucasha]

No. Pence will be regarded as a far-right guy who stuck who just so happened to do the right thing once.

[Pres Mike]

Pence will be a mere footnote as Trump’s VP. He is perhaps the least significant VP in decades… HW, Quayle, Gore, Cheney, Biden, and Harris all had far more notable public profiles in office.

I wonder who has/had more influence in the administration. Pence or Harris. Biden claims he takes Harris's advice seriously, but no evidence of that. Pence tried to tamper the worst of Trump

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

ONLY SCOTUS GETS MONUMENTS, PREZ GETS LIBRARY, he will be in Trump Library whenever it's built

[DPKdebator]

Pence will be a mere footnote as Trump’s VP. He is perhaps the least significant VP in decades… HW, Quayle, Gore, Cheney, Biden, and Harris all had far more notable public profiles in office.

I wonder who has/had more influence in the administration. Pence or Harris. Biden claims he takes Harris's advice seriously, but no evidence of that. Pence tried to tamper the worst of Trump

Harris does seem to have more of a microphone though. Pence was a background character.

[Pres Mike]

Pence will be a mere footnote as Trump’s VP. He is perhaps the least significant VP in decades… HW, Quayle, Gore, Cheney, Biden, and Harris all had far more notable public profiles in office.

I wonder who has/had more influence in the administration. Pence or Harris. Biden claims he takes Harris's advice seriously, but no evidence of that. Pence tried to tamper the worst of Trump

Harris does seem to have more of a microphone though. Pence was a background character.

Harris as Vice President is more of a over glorifed cabinet post. She is in the same league as Blinken or Yellen. Biden is a good man and I'm sure he takes her advice seriously. She just isn't at the same level Biden was when he was VP.

[Progressive Pessimist]

More as a victim than a hero. He was subjugated by his former boss, but he still stood by that boss until the very last moment possible.

[DPKdebator]

Pence will be a mere footnote as Trump’s VP. He is perhaps the least significant VP in decades… HW, Quayle, Gore, Cheney, Biden, and Harris all had far more notable public profiles in office.

I wonder who has/had more influence in the administration. Pence or Harris. Biden claims he takes Harris's advice seriously, but no evidence of that. Pence tried to tamper the worst of Trump

Harris does seem to have more of a microphone though. Pence was a background character.

Harris as Vice President is more of a over glorifed cabinet post. She is in the same league as Blinken or Yellen. Biden is a good man and I'm sure he takes her advice seriously. She just isn't at the same level Biden was when he was VP.

It'll be interesting to see in the future if active VPs like Cheney and Biden were aberrations or a new norm.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I think so. There is no telling what would have happened if Pence decided to go along with the conspirators and refuse to certify the EC, accept the fake Trump electors, or send the vote back to the state legislatures to pick the winners.

[Meatball Slayer]

No. Quite the opposite of one, actually.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

As uncomfortable as that reality is for liberals today, I think the answer is an obvious "yes". Without January 6 he would be one of the most nondescript and forgettable VPs in history and only the future equivalent of Atlas nerds would ever talk about him 30/50/100 years from now. But January 6 is going to be remembered as one of the defining events in American history, and he's mostly only going to be remembered for the fact that he refused to go along with Trump's plan that could very well get Trump incarcerated. The fact that he still opposes same-sex marriage or that he was willing to even be Trump's running mate in the first place will be forgotten.

On that note Nancy Pelosi will probably be one of the most remembered House Speakers in US history too for similar reasons and because she was a target on January 6.

'That photo' of Pelosi facing down Trump will probably be a solid piece of history. As for Pence, who can say? He may end up a barely-remembered cog, or maybe he'll be Paul Revere.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     If the country makes it out to see future glory days, then probably yes. If the decline narrative reaches its fruition, then he will ultimately just be a footnote. Ultimately, only time will tell.

[Ricardian1485]

Mike Pence can pretend that he made a heroic sacrifice, but in reality he's an opportunistic cockroach. He was at Trump's beck and call for four years, his only purpose was to serve as a token evangelical, giving imprimatur to a man who's political beliefs were in direct opposition to what the Republican party supposedly stood for. He only disobeyed the Suzerain when he tried to make Pence the prime mover in an ill conceived coup.

Pence didn't immediately refuse to carry out the coup either, he asked for advice first, and looked into the constitutionality of it. This implies that if it was constitutional he would have gladly subverted the will of the American people to keep the isolationist pig emperor on high.

Refusing to overturn the election was a pragmatic choice that had the added benefit of allowing Pence to paint himself as a White Knight, who's "principles" and "values" stood above party loyalty. When in reality the only reason that he didn't was that at best the coup would result in countrywide riots, and at worst federal prison and treason convictions. 

Despite acknowledging that Trump attempted to overthrow our democracy, Pence has stated that he will still support the orange gorilla in 2024 if he wins the nomination even if he's convicted in a court of law for trying to overthrow our democracy. That alone should prove that he doesn't actually care about this country or the principles that supposedly guide him. People looking for the hero of the 20s will probably pass over Pence when they see that after he refused to steal the election, he still supported the guy who ordered him to.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Pence didn't immediately refuse to carry out the coup either, he asked for advice first, and looked into the constitutionality of it. This implies that if it was constitutional he would have gladly subverted the will of the American people to keep the isolationist pig emperor on high.

That's not a valid inference. If you were Pence and you yourself thought it was wrong to do what Trump asked, it would have been much smarter to ask for legal advice rather than simply to directly tell Trump "no." The reason for that is that having got legal advice, he could have hoped to be able to say "sorry Trump, but I can't do it," thereby shifting the blame for that from himself to the lawyers, which a rational person in his situation would have hoped would be less alienating to Trump. And he would have hoped that by not alienating Trump as much, he could put himself in a better position in the future with Trump and with the Republican base. It didn't turn out that way of course, but it would have been rational for him to have hoped that it would at that point.

[Ricardian1485]

Pence didn't immediately refuse to carry out the coup either, he asked for advice first, and looked into the constitutionality of it. This implies that if it was constitutional he would have gladly subverted the will of the American people to keep the isolationist pig emperor on high.

That's not a valid inference. If you were Pence and you yourself thought it was wrong to do what Trump asked, it would have been much smarter to ask for legal advice rather than simply to directly tell Trump "no." The reason for that is that having got legal advice, he could have hoped to be able to say "sorry Trump, but I can't do it," thereby shifting the blame for that from himself to the lawyers, which a rational person in his situation would have hoped would be less alienating to Trump. And he would have hoped that by not alienating Trump as much, he could put himself in a better position in the future with Trump and with the Republican base. It didn't turn out that way of course, but it would have been rational for him to have hoped that it would at that point.

But there is actually some evidence that Mike Pence's investigation into the constitutionality of Trump's orders was rooted in a desire to actually carry them out rather than a desire to validate his refusal.

I have seen this excerpt from "Peril" by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa floating around

“Over and over, Pence asked if there was anything he could do.

“‘Mike, you have no flexibility on this. None. Zero. Forget it. Put it away,’ Quayle told him.

“Pence pressed again.

“‘You don’t know the position I’m in,’ he said, according to the authors.

“‘I do know the position you’re in,’ Quayle responded. ‘I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That’s all you do. You have no power.’”

If Mike Pence was only looking for legal justification to refuse, then he i dont see why he would keep pressing Dan Quayle on the issue after he explained that it was entirely unconstitutional.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Pence didn't immediately refuse to carry out the coup either, he asked for advice first, and looked into the constitutionality of it. This implies that if it was constitutional he would have gladly subverted the will of the American people to keep the isolationist pig emperor on high.

That's not a valid inference. If you were Pence and you yourself thought it was wrong to do what Trump asked, it would have been much smarter to ask for legal advice rather than simply to directly tell Trump "no." The reason for that is that having got legal advice, he could have hoped to be able to say "sorry Trump, but I can't do it," thereby shifting the blame for that from himself to the lawyers, which a rational person in his situation would have hoped would be less alienating to Trump. And he would have hoped that by not alienating Trump as much, he could put himself in a better position in the future with Trump and with the Republican base. It didn't turn out that way of course, but it would have been rational for him to have hoped that it would at that point.

But there is actually some evidence that Mike Pence's investigation into the constitutionality of Trump's orders was rooted in a desire to actually carry them out rather than a desire to validate his refusal.

I have seen this excerpt from "Peril" by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa floating around

“Over and over, Pence asked if there was anything he could do.

“‘Mike, you have no flexibility on this. None. Zero. Forget it. Put it away,’ Quayle told him.

“Pence pressed again.

“‘You don’t know the position I’m in,’ he said, according to the authors.

“‘I do know the position you’re in,’ Quayle responded. ‘I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That’s all you do. You have no power.’”

If Mike Pence was only looking for legal justification to refuse, then he i dont see why he would keep pressing Dan Quayle on the issue after he explained that it was entirely unconstitutional.

Hmm, that is concerning. I think I either didn't hear about this Dan Quayle stuff at the time it came out, or forgot about it, not sure. But it is definitely concerning and I will have to do some more research into it and reconsider my support for Pence.

However, according to this, the book says:

https://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/transcript-rachel-maddow-show-9-14-21-n1279231

Former Vice President Dan Quayle thought Trump`s suggestion was preposterous and dangerous. His effort to control events was a dark Rube Goldberg-like fantasy. And can precipitate a constitutional crisis.

Quayle told Mike Pence, quote, Mike, you have no flexibility on this. None, zero, forget it, put it away. Pence said in reply, I know. That`s what I`ve been trying to tell Trump. But he really thinks he can, and there are other guys in there saying I`ve got this power. I`ve --

The part I bolded/underlined seems important. If Pence did in fact say and believe that to Quayle, that is quite a bit better because if accurate, it would show that Pence recognized prior to talking to Quayle that he couldn't do this and was trying to persuade Trump of it already.

However, the subsequent bit is more disturbing again:

Quayle interrupted him. You don`t, just stop it he said.

Pence pressed again. It was easy for Quayle to make a blanket statement from political winter. He wanted to know, veep to veep, whether there was even a glimmer of light, legally, constitutionally to perhaps put a pause on the certification, if there were ongoing court cases, and legal challenges.

I would hope that what really happened here could get clarified a bit more. In the ideal case, maybe we will find out from testimony in Trump's trial.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I think he’ll lose almost all of his goodwill when he endorses Trump again.

so...

[BlueSwan]

After today, I'd have to say yes.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Depends on if Biden wins or not

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I don't know.

I can certainly see how he might. But, I think Pence's place in history will depend on how the next ten months (and the next ten years) shake out.

He could end up beeing seen as anything from a hero to a treacherous speedbump or even tragic figure.

From, A History of the American Republican (Avalon Historical Press, 64818410416),

Vice-President Michael "Mickey" Pence is often seen as the last standard-bearer of the American Republic. As junior co-ruler with then President and future Major Leader Donald "Duck" Trump, he was instrumental in Trump's fall from power during the Capitol Hill Conspiracy, leading the United Congress in its heroic stand against the ad-hoc forces of Trump's Good Ol' Boys.

But leadership of the failing Republic was passed to aging former Senator Joseph "Boy Wonder" Biden, famous for his entry into American politics at a young age. Biden served as a compromise figurehead for the disparate power blocs of the late Republic, presiding over many failed attempts to halt Trump and his disciples assaults on the existing government.

Biden was ousted by a resurgent Major Leader Trump at the next ceremonial renewal of government   and allowed to retire to his estate, under the watchful eye of the President's Guards' Secret Service. The Major Leader and his heirs dismantled the Republic, much as Emperor Octavian had done in Rome two thousand years earlier.

Vice-President Pence remains the last effective stand of the Republic, and as such is commonly venerated by practitioners of the Republican Faith.