What is the most libertarian Mountain state?
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  What is the most libertarian Mountain state?
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Question: What is the most libertarian Mountain state?
#1
Idaho
 
#2
Montana
 
#3
Wyoming
 
#4
Nevada
 
#5
Utah
 
#6
Colorado
 
#7
Arizona
 
#8
New Mexico
 
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Total Voters: 56

Author Topic: What is the most libertarian Mountain state?  (Read 993 times)
WalterWhite
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« on: August 05, 2023, 04:16:17 PM »

By libertarian, I mean ideologically libertarian (supports right-wing economics but left-wing social policy). I DO NOT mean the percentage of votes Libertarian candidates receive.
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2023, 01:04:51 PM »

Nevada?

Polling inidicates the state is extremely socially liberal on things like abortion, gay marriage, ect. Some polls even show it's to the left of Washington or even Cali on certain social issues.

However, the main reason the state stays so close is due to Las Vegas's unique economy (amongst other factors like low educational attainment, and low minority turnout).
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2023, 01:10:26 PM »

I’ll go one by one
Utah - right wing on both probably? But economically right wing is hard to define. It’s easier to talk about gender than fiscal, monetary, industrial, labor, housing, transportation, and welfare policy. Though all in all, I’d say Utah is better educated than a lot of the US though that’s for very socioeconomic reasons.
Idaho: white supremacists, it’s just the first thing I think of sorry.
Wyoming: similar to West Virginia, which probably converted to Republicans for a combo of textbook banning and coal. But Wyoming does seem more chill, but I have no evidence for that.
Montana: I mean Jon Tester here is the best representative besides maybe Sinema.
Arizona: more like a second California than anything, which Cali has a lot of right wing or just nimby economic aspects with a veneer of environmentalism.
New Mexico: the Permian basin and Roswell seems to be an extension of that part of Texas. The rest of the state, especially the dems, being anti-weed and stuff evokes socially right wing, Econ I dunno.
Colorado: I mean what is economically right wing anyways? Like weed is both economic and social. Prison labor is both economic and social.
Nevada: legal prostitution, gambling, strong labor movement due in part to Harry Reid

I mean there’s not really a state that I’d consider economically left wing, but I don’t really know much about the economic policies of states. It’s all mostly cars, that’s America. This plus, I don’t imagine states can run a deficit like the nation can. Florida and Alaska have you could say left wing policies with home insurance and the state universal wage. I guess my final answer though is Arizona, because it’s so hot and sprawling but voted dem.
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2023, 01:13:07 PM »

Nevada?

Polling inidicates the state is extremely socially liberal on things like abortion, gay marriage, ect. Some polls even show it's to the left of Washington or even Cali on certain social issues.

However, the main reason the state stays so close is due to Las Vegas's unique economy (amongst other factors like low educational attainment, and low minority turnout).
So what is economically right wing about Vegas? Does it have particularly high inequality, less robust education, a greater proportion of sh**tty jobs?
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Agonized-Statism
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2023, 11:43:51 AM »

Colorado used to get hyped up as the archetypal libertarian state. I've always thought of Nevada, being right-to-work and having legal prostitution, wide-open gambling, and historically being home to the divorce capital of the world in Reno, although fiscal policy, regulations, and powerful unions make it iffy.
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2023, 09:35:57 PM »

Colorado is the most left-libertarian.  Montana is the most right-libertarian*.  You can debate which is the "true libertarianism".

*Alaska really is, but it's probably not relevant to this discussion.
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Vice President Christian Man
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2023, 11:54:09 PM »

I voted Montana because I didn’t think of Nevada as a mountain state but Nevada would win.
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An American Tail: Fubart Goes West
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2023, 02:03:54 AM »

Colorado is the most left-libertarian.  Montana is the most right-libertarian*.  You can debate which is the "true libertarianism".

*Alaska really is, but it's probably not relevant to this discussion.


There’s a case to be made for Nevada overall (and honestly, outside of the big cities, right-libertarian), but I want to emphasize that Colorado definitely fits for left-libertarian. Montana might be the best for the right though.

Utah is a laughable answer and I’d like to see someone defend that.
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Vosem
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2023, 03:55:25 PM »

Easily Colorado, which pioneered both drug legalization and hard-fiscon state constitutional measures.
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Libertas Vel Mors
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2023, 04:49:38 PM »

Easily Colorado, which pioneered both drug legalization and hard-fiscon state constitutional measures.

This feels more like an accident caused by rapid demographic change from "hard-right small government Westerners" to "college-educated Dems" than an actual reflection of the character of the state.
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Libertas Vel Mors
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2023, 04:55:32 PM »

Anyway, Idaho, where Ammon Bundy got 17% of the vote in 2022 and where opposition to Covid restrictions was extremely strong. Arizona (laxest gun laws) also works and intuitively Wyoming seems like it would be more libertarian (similar to Idaho but no Mormons) but for whatever reason that seems to have been less evident in the states politics over the last several years.

Nevada doesn't strike me as very libertarian: it has legal gambling and prostitution because the laws were passed decades ago and the states economy has grown around it, but there's nothing that particularly suggests a libertarian mindset beyond that (although it is of course still libertarian in the scheme of things). Nor does Montana or Colorado.
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Sumner 1868
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2023, 06:40:50 PM »

It's clearly Wyoming.

Idaho is a hotbed of right-authoritarians and more quasi-fascists get elected to local offices every year. That alone should immediately disqualify the state.

Colorado has gun control and voted against scab laws every time it's made the ballot. Montana's labor laws are better than national average and obviously has no scab law. Same with Alaska, which also has a strong public sector. New Mexico also has no scab law.

Arizona is pro-entitlements because of it's huge elderly population. It also lead the nation in "tough on crime/borders" heavy policing not that long ago and many of those laws are still on the books.
 
Nevada is fairly lax but it has gun control laws. It also has a large labor movement in the cities despite its scab law.

Utah has restrictive social policies because of Mormonism, although it has loosened a little in recent years.

That leaves Wyoming. It's dominated by ranchers, has few Mormons, has no significant  progressive base, yet it hasn't attracted anywhere near the amount attracted the far-right currents Idaho has. It isn't "pure" libertarianism, but it's the closest thing you'll find.

Anyway, Idaho, where Ammon Bundy got 17% of the vote in 2022

The Bundy's are neo-Bircher Armageddonist authoritarians who think ranchers be allowed should seize public lands for themselves so they don't pay grazing fees (and pushes Soverign citizen rhetoric as a poorly-cloaked pretext). That's proof of a current in Idaho, but it's not the current you think it is. Case in point, if you read the Turner Diaries, some "libertarian" arguments are used against the System, but it certainly isn't a libertarian story.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2023, 10:40:26 PM »

The Bundy's are neo-Bircher Armageddonist authoritarians who think ranchers be allowed should seize public lands for themselves so they don't pay grazing fees (and pushes Soverign citizen rhetoric as a poorly-cloaked pretext). That's proof of a current in Idaho, but it's not the current you think it is. Case in point, if you read the Turner Diaries, some "libertarian" arguments are used against the System, but it certainly isn't a libertarian story.
It fits in the sense that American "libertarians" are extremely Hitlerite.
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Sol
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2023, 10:44:02 PM »

I feel like this discussion illustrates the limitations of terms like "libertarian" in this sort of discussion. Idaho has lots of sovereign citizens, freaks living in compounds, Bundys, etc...who are all behind a rather disturbing fascistic and racist ideology. This is not exactly "live and let live."
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2023, 12:09:34 PM »

I'd say Montana, but they used to be very union friendly and every Dem they've put to Senate except Baucus have been very left-leaning.

I'd have to say Colorado, which would somewhat explain why it was so GOP heavy until 2008.

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robocop
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2023, 01:32:06 PM »

By libertarian, I mean ideologically libertarian (supports right-wing economics but left-wing social policy). I DO NOT mean the percentage of votes Libertarian candidates receive.

But what makes you think a Libertarian supports left wing social politics?
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