Two Term President as VP Running Mate?

[ak482]

I've been listening to the podcast My History Can Beat Up Your Politics.  On an episode, there was a discussion about the 1988 campaign and an idea of naming Ronald Reagan as George H.W. Bush's running mate.  Also delved into the chatter of naming Obama as a Biden running mate for 2024.  One of the arguments being made that this would be legal is the 12th amendment only applying to election (i.e. ticket wins election, then the president resigns & VP takes office).  My feeling is that the 22nd amendment shuts this down.

Thoughts?

[NewYorkExpress]

I've been listening to the podcast My History Can Beat Up Your Politics.  On an episode, there was a discussion about the 1988 campaign and an idea of naming Ronald Reagan as George H.W. Bush's running mate.  Also delved into the chatter of naming Obama as a Biden running mate for 2024.  One of the arguments being made that this would be legal is the 12th amendment only applying to election (i.e. ticket wins election, then the president resigns & VP takes office).  My feeling is that the 22nd amendment shuts this down.

Thoughts?

This will never happen, not because it's unconstitutional, but because no one who has served two terms as President is ever going to agree to be Vice President to begin with.

[President Johnson]

Its legality is and remains an open question. On the one hand, the constitution says a candidate for vice president must be eligible for the presidency as well, on the other hand, the 22nd Amendment only term-limits the presidency, not the vice presidency. There have been scholars arguing the provisions about eligibility are purely about age, citizenship and residence as initally stated in the constitution at a time in which term-limits were not adopted (prior to 1951). I guess if it ever came to test, the courts would have to rule on it. However, it's unlikely this happens in practice, simply because no two-term president would ever like going back to being the second-in-command.

[brucejoel99]

Maybe.

The 12th Amendment says that "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice President of the United States," & the 22nd says that you can only be elected to the presidency twice (& if you succeed to the presidency & serve for more than half of one term, then that counts as one of your terms), so the question would come down to the Supreme Court deciding whether "constitutionally ineligible to the office" includes a prohibition on being "elected to the office more than twice."

A very strict reading of the Constitution would allow it, because the 22nd Amendment only says that a person can't be elected President more than twice, without saying anything about whether or not a person can serve more than twice.

So, if the Supreme Court were to take into account the words exactly as they're written, then the answer to your question is yes. If they take the clear intent of the 22nd Amendment into account, then the answer is probably not.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm betting that Gorsuch and maybe Thomas are the only ones who would potentially rule that it's allowed.

[Ferguson97]

This is one of those things that’s only legally ambiguous to contributors to The Atlantic. Is there any serious legal mind who actually believes that Barack Obama is eligible to serve as Vice President?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I've been listening to the podcast My History Can Beat Up Your Politics.  On an episode, there was a discussion about the 1988 campaign and an idea of naming Ronald Reagan as George H.W. Bush's running mate.  Also delved into the chatter of naming Obama as a Biden running mate for 2024.  One of the arguments being made that this would be legal is the 12th amendment only applying to election (i.e. ticket wins election, then the president resigns & VP takes office).  My feeling is that the 22nd amendment shuts this down.

Thoughts?

This will never happen, not because it's unconstitutional, but because no one who has served two terms as President is ever going to agree to be Vice President to begin with.

A 2 term President Jerry Brown might have. After all, he decided to be mayor of Oakland after being a 2 term California governor.

[NewYorkExpress]

This is one of those things that’s only legally ambiguous to contributors to The Atlantic. Is there any serious legal mind who actually believes that Barack Obama is eligible to serve as Vice President?

Is there any serious person who thinks Barack Obama even wants to be Vice President, let alone whether or not he is eligible?

[kyc0705]

I've been listening to the podcast My History Can Beat Up Your Politics.  On an episode, there was a discussion about the 1988 campaign and an idea of naming Ronald Reagan as George H.W. Bush's running mate.  Also delved into the chatter of naming Obama as a Biden running mate for 2024.  One of the arguments being made that this would be legal is the 12th amendment only applying to election (i.e. ticket wins election, then the president resigns & VP takes office).  My feeling is that the 22nd amendment shuts this down.

Thoughts?

This will never happen, not because it's unconstitutional, but because no one who has served two terms as President is ever going to agree to be Vice President to begin with.

I have seen this scenario gamed out before when addressing the two-term question. It was imagined that there was an extremely popular two-term incumbent, and a crisis like 9/11 gives them a huge rallying effect. They become so popular and trusted that there's a movement among some to repeal the 22nd amendment and allow them to run again. This does not happen but they end up "running for VP" so that the person elected president will resign and elevate them to the presidency again (with the explicit understanding of everyone involved and the effective understanding of much of the electorate who wants a third term from this president). This is also suggested in the topic post.

Regardless, I think the combined effects of the 12th and 22nd amendments render this a moot point. As with any constitutional question, people have come up with some bizarre legal contortions to say it's possible, but they don't exactly turn out very compelling.

[brucejoel99]

This is one of those things that’s only legally ambiguous to contributors to The Atlantic. Is there any serious legal mind who actually believes that Barack Obama is eligible to serve as Vice President?

[INSERT joke about textualism lacking seriousness HERE]

[Donerail]

This is one of those things that’s only legally ambiguous to contributors to The Atlantic. Is there any serious legal mind who actually believes that Barack Obama is eligible to serve as Vice President?

Yes? Here's Michael Dorf, a tenured professor of law at Cornell, making the case for the constitutionality of a Gore-Clinton ticket in 2000. This is not a settled question.