Does mental wellbeing affect political ideology? Does ideology affect mental well-being?

[ProgressiveModerate]

It seems like surveys point to the idea liberals are more likely to suffer with a mental health issues, and the divide has spiked in recent years, especially with liberal v conservative women and liberal v conservative whites. I've heard several theories that attempt to explain this divide:

1. Liberals don't actually struggle with mental health more than Conservatives, they are just more likely to label things as mental health issues. However, some of the studies try and account for this in their design but still show a divide (it's really hard to fully account for though).

2. Since liberalism tends to be more focused on issues of inequality and discrimination, American Liberals are both more likely to care more about different injustices and problems. I've often found in school, many of my liberal friends talk about large issues like climate change and economic inequality in very pessimistic and looming terms, whereas conservatives tend to be less attached to political issues. For Conservatives, it's almost like an "ignorance is bliss" situation.

3. Conservatives are more likely to come from a distinct religious or cultural community that gives them greater default friend/family/support circles. Anecdotal again, but in my NYC high school, I found most Conservative kids were part of a clear ethnic/religious enclave like Jewish, Italian, Muslim, or specific Asian ethnicity that set them up with a very distinct and close-knit friend friend group and life activities outside of school. Since many liberal whites are non-religious and don't strongly associate with an ethnic faction, they don't have that default community and are less likely to have a close friend group and stuff. I think liberal whites tending to live in large cities further exasperates this, cause a smaller neighborhood can provide a distinct community that a large city doesn't really have.

4. This is sort of the complement of point 2, but people who live worse lives and struggle with issues like poverty, extreme discrimination, health issues, ect are more likely to vote Dem because the Dem Party offers them help. On the flip side, the Republican Party advocates for minimal government intervention, so of course people who feel they are doing fine or good in life are more likely to vibe with that messaging.

Either way, I've noticed there's a looming sort of pessimism amongst many younger liberals in the way they discuss different issues that I don't think is healthy. I think many try to attach themselves too deeply to these large structural problems, and don’t do the hard work of actually brainstorming realistic and creative solutions to these serious problems so it's just a doom circle. I also think in some cases, liberals have normalized discussing mental health too much to the point where every little issue someone has is validated, and there's less emphasis on trying to fix your own problems.

On the Conservative side, I think there needs to be more acceptance that mental health exists, especially amongst conservative men. I do agree with the idea many conservatives have that in general, men address their issues differently, and most of the mental health/therapy systems we have in place are geared more for women, but I haven't seen a lot of action by Conservatives advocating for different ways to address mental health in men. Also, some Conservatives need to stop talking down to people who have mental health issues cause they are typically genuine; depression doesn't have to be "justified" by life circumstances to be legitimate.

In a weird way, I’m unhappy that things such as social media, modern schooling, increasingly competitive college admissions, and so on, have made kids so much more politically engaged and involved from such a young age. Generally, political involvement is a good thing, but I think in many cases, it contributes to my generations poor mental health and relative lack of independence, especially since most teenagers understanding of political issue is going to be pretty superficial reguardless. I know for myself, as young as 6 grade we were constantly discussing modern American political issues in class, but it’s only recently I’ve had the mental capabilities to create more nuanced positions.

[Continential]

I'm around your age so maybe I could talk about what conservatives think since I live in a far more conservative area than NYC - a suburban bedroom community in western Pennsylvania.

I've often found in school, many of my liberal friends talk about large issues like climate change and economic inequality in very pessimistic and looming terms, whereas conservatives tend to be less attached to political issues. For Conservatives, it's almost like an "ignorance is bliss" situation.

Well, for many young Conservatives - "conservatism" is the counterculture to what people see as liberal hypocrisy and out of touch elitism being forced onto them.

Conservatives are more likely to come from a distinct religious or cultural community that gives them greater default friend/family/support circles. Anecdotal again, but in my NYC high school, I found most Conservative kids were part of a clear ethnic/religious enclave like Jewish, Italian, Muslim, or specific Asian ethnicity that set them up with a very distinct and close-knit friend friend group and life activities outside of school. Since many liberal whites are non-religious and don't strongly associate with an ethnic faction, they don't have that default community and are less likely to have a close friend group and stuff. I think liberal whites tending to live in large cities further exasperates this, cause a smaller neighborhood can provide a distinct community that a large city doesn't really have.

Yeah I can see the importance of "community" leading someone to more conservative as the conservatives I know tend to be more religious than the few liberals I know who are religiously apathetic or don't talk about religion. Also, for people our age - I notice that those who participate in sports - typically are more conservative than someone who doesn't participate in any sports - there is this sort of a "sports culture" which is conservative.

4. This is sort of the complement of point 2, but people who live worse lives and struggle with issues like poverty, extreme discrimination, health issues, ect are more likely to vote Dem because the Dem Party offers them help. On the flip side, the Republican Party advocates for minimal government intervention, so of course people who feel they are doing fine or good in life are more likely to vibe with that messaging.

Also, the idea that the Democratic Party is enforcing stuff upon them - like the idea of the Democratic Party being politically correct and forcing their agenda on everyone. Also people I know think that Biden/Fetterman is mentally incapable and the like and the Democratic Party is forcing them to serve in office.

Either way, I've noticed there's a looming sort of pessimism amongst many younger liberals in the way they discuss different issues that I don't think is healthy. I think many try to attach themselves too deeply to these large structural problems, and don’t do the hard work of actually brainstorming realistic and creative solutions to these serious problems so it's just a doom circle. I also think in some cases, liberals have normalized discussing mental health too much to the point where every little issue someone has is validated, and there's less emphasis on trying to fix your own problems.

Yeah I agree with you, there should be more positivity in our lives and people should realize that they live good lives which many can only dream of and about the positives of life.

On the Conservative side, I think there needs to be more acceptance that mental health exists, especially amongst conservative men. I do agree with the idea many conservatives have that in general, men address their issues differently, and most of the mental health/therapy systems we have in place are geared more for women, but I haven't seen a lot of action by Conservatives advocating for different ways to address mental health in men. Also, some Conservatives need to stop talking down to people who have mental health issues cause they are typically genuine; depression doesn't have to be "justified" by life circumstances to be legitimate.

Yeah I agree with you on this but it is hard to address mental health in men when mental health is directed to women and part of it is sort of on the person.

In a weird way, I’m unhappy that things such as social media, modern schooling, increasingly competitive college admissions, and so on, have made kids so much more politically engaged and involved from such a young age. Generally, political involvement is a good thing, but I think in many cases, it contributes to my generations poor mental health and relative lack of independence, especially since most teenagers understanding of political issue is going to be pretty superficial reguardless. I know for myself, as young as 6 grade we were constantly discussing modern American political issues in class, but it’s only recently I’ve had the mental capabilities to create more nuanced positions.

Well in my experience I didn't really talk politics aside from superficial "oh I support X for President" until the past year (9th grade), and I think maybe this could be because you live in New York City and I live in a suburban bedroom community in Western Pennsylvania in a mostly Republican area.

[ProgressiveModerate]

I'm around your age so maybe I could talk about what conservatives think since I live in a far more conservative area than NYC - a suburban bedroom community in western Pennsylvania.

I've often found in school, many of my liberal friends talk about large issues like climate change and economic inequality in very pessimistic and looming terms, whereas conservatives tend to be less attached to political issues. For Conservatives, it's almost like an "ignorance is bliss" situation.

Well, for many young Conservatives - "conservatism" is the counterculture to what people see as liberal hypocrisy and out of touch elitism being forced onto them.

Ye - I've generally noticed 2 types of younger Conservatives/Republicans at my school. There are those who are just born into a family/culture that is more conservative in it's values. Then there are those fall into one of those social media rabbit holes that targets people's anger around some wedge issue, and try to use it as proof Dmeocrats as these insane socialists.

Yeah I can see the importance of "community" leading someone to more conservative as the conservatives I know tend to be more religious than the few liberals I know who are religiously apathetic or don't talk about religion. Also, for people our age - I notice that those who participate in sports - typically are more conservative than someone who doesn't participate in any sports - there is this sort of a "sports culture" which is conservative.

Sports kids being more conservative may be slightly true at my school given that HS Sports tend to skew male, however, I think my school is a bit unique in that sports don't have the same social capital they do at most other public HS. My school is a specialized NYC HS and very academically oriented.

Also, the idea that the Democratic Party is enforcing stuff upon them - like the idea of the Democratic Party being politically correct and forcing their agenda on everyone. Also people I know think that Biden/Fetterman is mentally incapable and the like and the Democratic Party is forcing them to serve in office.

Def agree. Said this a lot before but I think these small ethnic NYC factions have shifted right cause they fear Democrats are going to take away their cultures which often include more traditional gender roles and such.

Yeah I agree with you, there should be more positivity in our lives and people should realize that they live good lives which many can only dream of and about the positives of life.

Ye I think mass-media and stuff has made it so everyday all people hear about are all these different problems. You have also been able to compare yourself to the ultra-wealthy like never before. So even if your life quality isn't circumstantially any worse than someone from 20 years ago, it feels worse quality because of what you're exposed to.

Yeah I agree with you on this but it is hard to address mental health in men when mental health is directed to women and part of it is sort of on the person.

I think one very basic thing that can help men (and womne) is encouraging people to exercise more. When you exercise, it can release chemicals like serotonin which essentially makes you happier. Also I think for many men, being more physically in shape is a huge boost to social confidence. I also think having more male therapists who specifically learn how to work with men would be good.

Well in my experience I didn't really talk politics aside from superficial "oh I support X for President" until the past year (9th grade), and I think maybe this could be because you live in New York City and I live in a suburban bedroom community in Western Pennsylvania in a mostly Republican area.

Yeah I think NYC is different cause of how hyper-political things are. I think there's nothing wrong with giving a factual non-biased summary about different modern political issues to sixth graders, the issue is they made us choose positions for several projects and had us basically debate modern American political issues. However, I don't think this issue is quite like the CRT stuff the GOP loves to talk about, more just *forcing* kids to take political positions on complex topics. In HS once folks have more of a brainpower to have developed positions on these issues and if it's an appropiate class, I think having these political discussions is ok.

[Builder Refused]

It seems like surveys point to the idea liberals are more likely to suffer with a mental health issues, and the divide has spiked in recent years, especially with liberal v conservative women and liberal v conservative whites. I've heard several theories that attempt to explain this divide:

1. Liberals don't actually struggle with mental health more than Conservatives, they are just more likely to label things as mental health issues. However, some of the studies try and account for this in their design but still show a divide (it's really hard to fully account for though).

ME:Well say you have a more femme queer black and brown poor less listened to more often challenged and with fewer opportunities. Those are like, the sh**t you don’t shouldn’t really have to have control of in my opinion and I’d imagine they can lead to the mental illness. Then there’s stuff that I think is really only your responsibility to regulate: anomie, antisocial thoughts, general theory of mind, worldview. People from a masc vanilla white wealthy more listened to more fairly challenged background with more opportunities, will tend to see accurately that most of their problems are due to their own flaws or unrealistic expectations, so they might project that on others. Of course, there’s always gonna be group A who’s more tough love, and group B who realizes their privilege, and the groups are very messy.

2. Since liberalism tends to be more focused on issues of inequality and discrimination, American Liberals are both more likely to care more about different injustices and problems. I've often found in school, many of my liberal friends talk about large issues like climate change and economic inequality in very pessimistic and looming terms, whereas conservatives tend to be less attached to political issues. For Conservatives, it's almost like an "ignorance is bliss" situation.

ME:I think there’s also an epistemological difference. There’s an aspect of truth to like, insincere liberals, but I think this comes from educated people who find it hard to translate from emotional to logical or the other way around. There’s structural racism which is hard to convey the feeling of to someone, and interpersonal racism, which is something that white people can only understand through metaphor. Same with sexism and men.

3. Conservatives are more likely to come from a distinct religious or cultural community that gives them greater default friend/family/support circles. Anecdotal again, but in my NYC high school, I found most Conservative kids were part of a clear ethnic/religious enclave like Jewish, Italian, Muslim, or specific Asian ethnicity that set them up with a very distinct and close-knit friend friend group and life activities outside of school. Since many liberal whites are non-religious and don't strongly associate with an ethnic faction, they don't have that default community and are less likely to have a close friend group and stuff. I think liberal whites tending to live in large cities further exasperates this, cause a smaller neighborhood can provide a distinct community that a large city doesn't really have.

ME:I think environmental factors are also contributing interesting here. Like across whites and womenses (and I’m assuming lib con isn’t a synonym for dem rep). So people work, hang, rinse repeat. Marriage would be a factor, as would drug use (don’t know the stats on that), and it is probably true that, if you don’t believe that racism or sexism is a big deal, it probably affects you less (and mind you I think plenty of conservative women will still recognize sexism, they just choose their battles or maybe not to battle at all). I’d also like to know what your opinion is of the liberal non voter vs the conservative non voter, or uncommon voter.

4. This is sort of the complement of point 2, but people who live worse lives and struggle with issues like poverty, extreme discrimination, health issues, ect are more likely to vote Dem because the Dem Party offers them help. On the flip side, the Republican Party advocates for minimal government intervention, so of course people who feel they are doing fine or good in life are more likely to vibe with that messaging.

ME:I imagine also on the other hand if you’re a pig, or a boss, then you kind of just get your therapy from being sh**tty to your employees and disobeying traffic laws and escalating ordinary parking stops. Like you don’t usually go to therapy if you like being sh**tty though I’d imagine cops also have higher mental illness rates.

Either way, I've noticed there's a looming sort of pessimism amongst many younger liberals in the way they discuss different issues that I don't think is healthy. I think many try to attach themselves too deeply to these large structural problems, and don’t do the hard work of actually brainstorming realistic and creative solutions to these serious problems so it's just a doom circle. I also think in some cases, liberals have normalized discussing mental health too much to the point where every little issue someone has is validated, and there's less emphasis on trying to fix your own problems.

ME:I mean I’d say there’s a possible fallacy here of “because you’re doing x at time A, that means I think you wouldn’t be doing y at time B”, but I acknowledge yes there’s good and bad ways to deal with negative feelings.

On the Conservative side, I think there needs to be more acceptance that mental health exists, especially amongst conservative men. I do agree with the idea many conservatives have that in general, men address their issues differently, and most of the mental health/therapy systems we have in place are geared more for women, but I haven't seen a lot of action by Conservatives advocating for different ways to address mental health in men. Also, some Conservatives need to stop talking down to people who have mental health issues cause they are typically genuine; depression doesn't have to be "justified" by life circumstances to be legitimate.

ME:I mean more traditional religions and cultures I think tend to have very different views of mental health. Like certain Africans I know for instance are very superstitious, Christians, Muslims. East Asians are stereotypically stricter parents, especially first generation immigrants. That different theory of mind, whether it comes with a certain discipline, restricted interpersonal emotional range, a story you have for things, I can imagine that makes it easier to put your problems inside a box, same with new age stuff even.

In a weird way, I’m unhappy that things such as social media, modern schooling, increasingly competitive college admissions, and so on, have made kids so much more politically engaged and involved from such a young age. Generally, political involvement is a good thing, but I think in many cases, it contributes to my generations poor mental health and relative lack of independence, especially since most teenagers understanding of political issue is going to be pretty superficial reguardless. I know for myself, as young as 6 grade we were constantly discussing modern American political issues in class, but it’s only recently I’ve had the mental capabilities to create more nuanced positions.

ME:I feel like a big part is fewer third spaces, car dependence, the flood of media, and trying to be right or cool that do a lot of damage

[Upper Canada Tory]

In a weird way, I’m unhappy that things such as social media, modern schooling, increasingly competitive college admissions, and so on, have made kids so much more politically engaged and involved from such a young age.

I think the main problem with the issues mentioned here is not excessive political engagement, but instead, the over-politicization of society.

What I mean by this is that today, every topic is made to be political, even when it doesn't need to be. Social media and the rules under which different social networks are run (Elon Musk's 'free speech' Twitter vs other alternatives), the constant discussion of perceived or actual unfairness resulting from affirmative action in university admissions, and constant issues with perceived or actual ideological agendas being pushed in schools and so on are examples of how these topics are politicized to the point that it's very hard not to care about politics if you are young but also even if you are an adult. I don't know if it is still possible to de-politicize our society, because today, everyone views something political in everything.

Regarding the question of mental well-being affecting political ideology, I had trouble finding studies that could confirm the causation of this, but I found one that examines overall health in children and political ideology in adulthood. Children with better health were more likely to be conservatives as adults and less likely to be liberals as adults. This is after controlling other factors such as wealth. Given that healthy children are more likely to become healthy adults, and good physical health is associated with good mental health, maybe this study suggests that it is a possibility that mental well-being (as well as just having good health overall) can affect political ideology?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352827322001938

[ProgressiveModerate]

In a weird way, I’m unhappy that things such as social media, modern schooling, increasingly competitive college admissions, and so on, have made kids so much more politically engaged and involved from such a young age.

I think the main problem with the issues mentioned here is not excessive political engagement, but instead, the over-politicization of society.

What I mean by this is that today, every topic is made to be political, even when it doesn't need to be. Social media and the rules under which different social networks are run (Elon Musk's 'free speech' Twitter vs other alternatives), the constant discussion of perceived or actual unfairness resulting from affirmative action in university admissions, and constant issues with perceived or actual ideological agendas being pushed in schools and so on are examples of how these topics are politicized to the point that it's very hard not to care about politics if you are young but also even if you are an adult. I don't know if it is still possible to de-politicize our society, because today, everyone views something political in everything.

Regarding the question of mental well-being affecting political ideology, I had trouble finding studies that could confirm the causation of this, but I found one that examines overall health in children and political ideology in adulthood. Children with better health were more likely to be conservatives as adults and less likely to be liberals as adults. This is after controlling other factors such as wealth. Given that healthy children are more likely to become healthy adults, and good physical health is associated with good mental health, maybe this study suggests that it is a possibility that mental well-being (as well as just having good health overall) can affect political ideology?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352827322001938

Ye I def agree with your point that literally everything has been politicized; it feels like every single thing has a political label assigned to it.

Thank you for sharing this study (this isn't one I came across in my research).

My best explanation for why this occurs is because a lot of life is just a stream of subconscious luck, and there are so many factors and events that can contribute to how "lucky" we are and hence how our quality of life is affected. Good physical health is often something people with it take for granted/don't really think about, even though it's probably affected their life quality in an overwhelmingly positive way.

Since it's impossible to acknowledge or quantify all the ways in which we've been "lucky" or "unlucky", it's easy for someone with very good luck in life to just assign it to their own hard work, and think that people who have lesser life-qualities didn't work as hard as they did. It's not even because they're an ignorant person, it's because as humans we tend to internalize success and failures against ourselves and don't rationalize external circumstances, especially in cases of success. There's prolly a correlation that Conservative folks are "lucky"; people who live better/happier lives than what their input of work would suggest because of luck factors. Liberals are the opposite.

A huge example of luck is the people you meet. Any person you meet occurs by chance. Yes, you can do things to try and surround yourself with good people, but you may or may not meet that one person who can set you on the bath to becoming a billionaire or that one person who will murder you. Also being heard by the right person can make a huge difference.

Now that's not to say personal responsibility doesn't matter; there are so many things you can do to increase your prospects of having a good life quality. But luck doesn't care about life circumstances.

Then you have the second aspect of one's personal mindset of their life given their circumstances. 2 people can have the same circumstances, but one person will be grateful and satisfied while the other is dissatisfied and unhappy. I think a good example of this is millennials; their physical life circumstances aren't statistically much worse than their parents, but because of all the negative media around Millennials plus social media crazily overrepresenting and almost normalizing the top 0.01%, they feel like their lives are worse and unsatisfactory. Imagine if all the circumstances were the same but the media narrative was that Millennials were wildly successful; I guarantee you they'd vote more R because they would be conditioned to believe they are doing well.

[Sumner 1868]

Conservatives are unquestionably a group with heavy mentally illness - it's just they stand out not for anxiety or depression but for a disproportionate amount of sadists and psychopaths.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Conservatives are unquestionably a group with heavy mentally illness - it's just they stand out not for anxiety or depression but for a disproportionate amount of sadists and psychopaths.

This is a fair point - mental illness is very broad.

I think the modern day Republican Party has provided a home to the whole conspiracy theorist group who tend to be disconnected from reality. The sadism probably comes from these people wanting their alternative reality to be proven true.

[Del Tachi]

People on the political Internet are a very bad representation of either party.  There is most likely not very much to distinguish the personalities/dispositions of those who follow politics the most closely, either on the left or right.

Sometime in the 1990s-2000s, the hallmark of a "well-informed" citizen became some kind of nagging cynicism.  Being optimistic about politics or the future is interpreted in educated circles as naivety.  Patriotism gets labeled something even worse.

Among the broader populations, conservatives are more likely to have developed positive coping mechanisms for dealing with adversity thanks to stronger religious beliefs, more robust family connections, a greater sense of moral clarity/empowerment, etc.  This has the expected mental health benefits. 

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

I think the fact that groups(eg black people, women, and queer people, not an exhaustive list obviously) who experience lots of discrimination and bias are a lot more are generally more left leaning(because the left is generally less hostile to those groups in America) is a big factor that hasn't been mentioned.