Canadian child pornography laws

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Apparentely in Canada, no person under 18 may appear in a hardcore porn movie AT ALL, regardless if they perform a sexual act or not. In addition, no character may be portrayed as being under 18, regardless of the actual age of the actor, and if they perform a sexual act or not.

Personally I find this overkill. I'd just draw the line at banning actual under 18s from being in sexual acts. Also I believe this makes some of Max Hardcore's videos illegal in Canada.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

BRTD, you truly have been lapsing into self-parody recently.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't watch hardcore porn and I'm not fan of Max Hardcore (opebo's quote about Max Hardcore, that's another story!) so that's not the issue here.

[Joe Republic]

Apparentely in Canada, no person under 18 may appear in a hardcore porn movie AT ALL, regardless if they perform a sexual act or not.

Assuming you aren't a pedophile, why would you want a minor to be in a porno at all, sex act or not?

In addition, no character may be portrayed as being under 18, regardless of the actual age of the actor, and if they perform a sexual act or not.

Again, why would you want even a 'faux' minor to be in the porno?


(I'm using the impersonal 'you' here.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There are some movies (mostly French) that blur the line between porn and art house cinema. These sometimes even star real porn stars, but are marketed as "legitimate" movies. It's certainly possible to see how one of these movies could include an under 18 character in the plot.

In fact I actually own such a movie that might fall under this law, Ken Park (although I don't consider a porno and since I haven't heard about it's ban in Canada I doubt Canada does either).

[Joe Republic]

A movie can market itself as whatever it wants, but if it's got hardcore porn in it, then it's a hardcore porno movie.  Admittedly that might not have been the producers' intention if it's just a minor scene, but why else is it in the movie?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

There are some movies (mostly French) that blur the line between porn and art house cinema. These sometimes even star real porn stars, but are marketed as "legitimate" movies. It's certainly possible to see how one of these movies could include an under 18 character in the plot.

In fact I actually own such a movie that might fall under this law, Ken Park (although I don't consider a porno and since I haven't heard about it's ban in Canada I doubt Canada does either).

Which only proves what a lot of self-satisfied rubbish alot of art cinema is.

Why would a hardcore porn film need an actor under the age of 18 anyway if his\her reason to be there has nothing to do with the actual pornography?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

A movie can market itself as whatever it wants, but if it's got hardcore porn in it, then it's a hardcore porno movie.  Admittedly that might not have been the producers' intention if it's just a minor scene, but why else is it in the movie?

Plot purposes. Note these movies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baise_Moi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_%281999_film%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortbus

There are some movies (mostly French) that blur the line between porn and art house cinema. These sometimes even star real porn stars, but are marketed as "legitimate" movies. It's certainly possible to see how one of these movies could include an under 18 character in the plot.

In fact I actually own such a movie that might fall under this law, Ken Park (although I don't consider a porno and since I haven't heard about it's ban in Canada I doubt Canada does either).

Which only proves what a lot of self-satisfied rubbish alot of art cinema is.

Why would a hardcore porn film need an actor under the age of 18 anyway if his\her reason to be there has nothing to do with the actual pornography?

As I said above, the plot. And as an answer to what my problem with Ireland is, note that two of the movies listed above are still banned in Ireland.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I admit I haven't seen those movies. But of those three Baise Moi and Shortbus are legal in Ireland to my knowledge. And most video rental stores even ignore censor bans (Showgirls is technically banned here, but I could get it at my local rental place if I so fancied it - for example)

Baise-Moi sounds like the worst sort of self-important euro-art-porn whose justifies it's own pathetic, meaningless existance with a pompous idiotic 'message'.

[MasterJedi]

Valid, and stop making useless topics please.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I admit I haven't seen those movies. But of those three Baise Moi and Shortbus are legal in Ireland to my knowledge.

Baise Moi is one of the banned ones. Romance is the other.

And most video rental stores even ignore censor bans (Showgirls is technically banned here, but I could get it at my local rental place if I so fancied it - for example)

Sure it's not the edited version?

Ireland is much more prudish than North Dakota in that case though, as that movie played in theaters at my hometown.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I admit I haven't seen those movies. But of those three Baise Moi and Shortbus are legal in Ireland to my knowledge.

Baise Moi is one of the banned ones. Romance is the other.

And most video rental stores even ignore censor bans (Showgirls is technically banned here, but I could get it at my local rental place if I so fancied it - for example)

Sure it's not the edited version?

Ireland is much more prudish than North Dakota in that case though, as that movie played in theaters at my hometown.

Baise-Moi is certainly legal here (I remember a newspaper review of it for some strange reason), though I think of members of the Irish Film Institute cinema club were the only ones allowed to see it in the cinema. A similiar situation occured with David Cronenberg's Crash, which is available to rent in Ireland as I know. Plus as I already said since 2003 I think there has been only one banning - Spun iirce.

I don't know enough about North Dakota to comment but really I doubt it's more prudish than bohemian Dublin really. Most countries of course have a great and inglorious history of sexual hypocrisy.

BTW, BRTD what's your fasicination with Ireland's censorship laws, yes in the past it was ridiculous (especially pre-50s when any showing of Catholic sacraments was automatically cut - the Irish nationalists were far more keen on censorship than the British actually) but it's fairly standard liberal nation today with a couple controversies, what's the big deal? (And no I don't think any film should be banned - I just wish Art film director had more thoughts in their brains than in their groins.)

[Bono]

Don't forget
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_Songs

[Gabu]

The whole point of making hardcore porn not to be sold to people under the age of 18 is to make it so that minors won't be exposed to it (or, at least, to make it harder for them to be exposed to it).

It would kind of defeat this purpose to actually have a minor in the porno.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I admit I haven't seen those movies. But of those three Baise Moi and Shortbus are legal in Ireland to my knowledge.

Baise Moi is one of the banned ones. Romance is the other.

And most video rental stores even ignore censor bans (Showgirls is technically banned here, but I could get it at my local rental place if I so fancied it - for example)

Sure it's not the edited version?

Ireland is much more prudish than North Dakota in that case though, as that movie played in theaters at my hometown.

Baise-Moi is certainly legal here (I remember a newspaper review of it for some strange reason), though I think of members of the Irish Film Institute cinema club were the only ones allowed to see it in the cinema. A similiar situation occured with David Cronenberg's Crash, which is available to rent in Ireland as I know. Plus as I already said since 2003 I think there has been only one banning - Spun iirce.

I don't know enough about North Dakota to comment but really I doubt it's more prudish than bohemian Dublin really. Most countries of course have a great and inglorious history of sexual hypocrisy.

BTW, BRTD what's your fasicination with Ireland's censorship laws, yes in the past it was ridiculous (especially pre-50s when any showing of Catholic sacraments was automatically cut - the Irish nationalists were far more keen on censorship than the British actually) but it's fairly standard liberal nation today with a couple controversies, what's the big deal? (And no I don't think any film should be banned - I just wish Art film director had more thoughts in their brains than in their groins.)

The fact that any such movies are banned makes it hardly a "fairly standard liberal nation", even banning Spun is too much. NO movies are banned here except for real child porn (and The Profit and Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story which have some legal issues involving libel and copyright infringement around them) Anyway you asked why I dislike Ireland before. I simply despise the Catholic influence and culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_films

Romance and Baise-Moi are listed as still banned.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The whole point of making hardcore porn not to be sold to people under the age of 18 is to make it so that minors won't be exposed to it (or, at least, to make it harder for them to be exposed to it).

It would kind of defeat this purpose to actually have a minor in the porno.

Couldn't the same thing be said about Ken Park (which while not porno would DEFINITELY receive an NC-17 rating if it was rated.) It contains scenes of explicit sexual behavior, suicide, murder, parental violence, drug use, incestous assault bya father on his son, BDSM, a boy having sex with his girlfriend's mother, explicit masturbation including autoerotic asphyxiation and a father forcing his daughter to reenact his marriage with him.

There are however adolescent characters in it. (Shaun's brother, Rhonda's sister and the black girls who talk to Tate all come to mind)

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I admit I haven't seen those movies. But of those three Baise Moi and Shortbus are legal in Ireland to my knowledge.

Baise Moi is one of the banned ones. Romance is the other.

And most video rental stores even ignore censor bans (Showgirls is technically banned here, but I could get it at my local rental place if I so fancied it - for example)

Sure it's not the edited version?

Ireland is much more prudish than North Dakota in that case though, as that movie played in theaters at my hometown.

Baise-Moi is certainly legal here (I remember a newspaper review of it for some strange reason), though I think of members of the Irish Film Institute cinema club were the only ones allowed to see it in the cinema. A similiar situation occured with David Cronenberg's Crash, which is available to rent in Ireland as I know. Plus as I already said since 2003 I think there has been only one banning - Spun iirce.

I don't know enough about North Dakota to comment but really I doubt it's more prudish than bohemian Dublin really. Most countries of course have a great and inglorious history of sexual hypocrisy.

BTW, BRTD what's your fasicination with Ireland's censorship laws, yes in the past it was ridiculous (especially pre-50s when any showing of Catholic sacraments was automatically cut - the Irish nationalists were far more keen on censorship than the British actually) but it's fairly standard liberal nation today with a couple controversies, what's the big deal? (And no I don't think any film should be banned - I just wish Art film director had more thoughts in their brains than in their groins.)

The fact that any such movies are banned makes it hardly a "fairly standard liberal nation", even banning Spun is too much. NO movies are banned here except for real child porn (and The Profit and Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story which have some legal issues involving libel and copyright infringement around them) Anyway you asked why I dislike Ireland before. I simply despise the Catholic influence and culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_films

Romance and Baise-Moi are listed as still banned.

Of which there is very little Catholic influence left, at least in this part of the country. (In the Rural areas though things might be a bit different). Seriously I'd claim that are many countries more catholic than us, especially now in Latin America, plus as I've said before the Catholic church's power in Ireland came from it's relationship with political establishment and it's role in Education - not because of any great spirtuality found among the citizens of nation, I've always considered Ireland somewhat of a "herd country" when it comes to religion.

Plus in America there are virtual bannings in the form of the NC-17 rating (Especially for those living outside the big cities - though it's the same here.), am I not mistaken? Plus in recent years it's become a fashion among American film makers to bastardize their film to make sure it gets a PG-13 certificate. Not official censorship I know, but the censorship of falling profits (which is always more powerful; especially to Hollywood.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Plus in America there are virtual bannings in the form of the NC-17 rating (Especially for those living outside the big cities - though it's the same here.), am I not mistaken?

Hardly comparable. Showgirls was NC-17, it played where I lived as I said above. A Dirty Shame was NC-17, it played in theaters. Many rental places (maybe not Blockbuster but little locally owned places) carry NC-17 movies, even in North Dakota. You can also buy them on amazon.com, etc. While they are more difficult to get than big mainstream releases, the same also applies to independent films that aren't NC-17, it's nowhere near a virtual banning. Living in Bismarck, ND would be little obstacle to watch NC-17 movies.

Plus in recent years it's become a fashion among American film makers to bastardize their film to make sure it gets a PG-13 certificate. Not official censorship I know, but the censorship of falling profits (which is always more powerful; especially to Hollywood.)

What movies? I've only heard of movies adding MORE content to get an R rating (typically a few more swear words or something)

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Plus in America there are virtual bannings in the form of the NC-17 rating (Especially for those living outside the big cities - though it's the same here.), am I not mistaken?

Hardly comparable. Showgirls was NC-17, it played. A Dirty Shame was NC-17, it played in theaters. Many rental places (maybe not Blockbuster but little locally owned places) carry NC-17 movies, even in North Dakota. You can also buy them on amazon.com, etc. While they are more difficult to get than big mainstream releases, the same also applies to independent films that aren't NC-17, it's nowhere near a virtual banning.

Plus in recent years it's become a fashion among American film makers to bastardize their film to make sure it gets a PG-13 certificate. Not official censorship I know, but the censorship of falling profits (which is always more powerful; especially to Hollywood.)

What movies? I've only heard of movies adding MORE content to get an R rating (typically a few more swear words or something)

Mainstream releases. Especially in horror; Alien vs Predator comes to mind. Though I have heard the opposite - Gosford Park was made R by the director to scare the dumb kids away. (IIRC)

[Colin]

According to the Demographic of Ireland page on Wikipedia a 2000 survey of Irish citizens showed that only 45% now atteneded church regularly down from 65% in 1990 and over 90% in 1973. So I would hardly call modern Ireland a country under religious yolk, it seems that the US is probably more controlled by religion than Ireland is.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Plus in America there are virtual bannings in the form of the NC-17 rating (Especially for those living outside the big cities - though it's the same here.), am I not mistaken?

Hardly comparable. Showgirls was NC-17, it played. A Dirty Shame was NC-17, it played in theaters. Many rental places (maybe not Blockbuster but little locally owned places) carry NC-17 movies, even in North Dakota. You can also buy them on amazon.com, etc. While they are more difficult to get than big mainstream releases, the same also applies to independent films that aren't NC-17, it's nowhere near a virtual banning.

Plus in recent years it's become a fashion among American film makers to bastardize their film to make sure it gets a PG-13 certificate. Not official censorship I know, but the censorship of falling profits (which is always more powerful; especially to Hollywood.)

What movies? I've only heard of movies adding MORE content to get an R rating (typically a few more swear words or something)

Mainstream releases. Especially in horror; Alien vs Predator comes to mind. Though I have heard the opposite - Gosford Park was made R by the director to scare the dumb kids away. (IIRC)

Alien vs. Predator was a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE movie that I don't give a damn about. Even in that case, the same edited version would appear in all countries, so it's hardly a banning. Saying that NC-17 movies are de facto banned in the US is like saying most of the music I listen to is.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

1. BRTD, must of the music you listen to SHOULD be banned, for the simple fact, that it's rubbish.

2. I didn't see Alien v Predator, I was merely memorizing an example of this among Hollywood releases.

According to the Demographic of Ireland page on Wikipedia a 2000 survey of Irish citizens showed that only 45% now atteneded church regularly down from 65% in 1990 and over 90% in 1973. So I would hardly call modern Ireland a country under religious yolk, it seems that the US is probably more controlled by religion than Ireland is.

Many of those 45% go not out of great spirtuality but because their neighbours are going. In many Irish rural areas the pub and the church are the only real places people can meet (and in some places they are the only buildings in the bloody place) - there is a small "born again" movement here, but nowhere near as big as the United States, and with certainly very little influence in Elections. (Except referenda on Divorce, Abortion, etc..)

[minionofmidas]

In addition, no character may be portrayed as being under 18, regardless of the actual age of the actor, and if they perform a sexual act or not.

I thought this law existed in the US as well?

1. BRTD, must of the music you listen to SHOULD be banned, for the simple fact, that it's rubbish.

Not a valid argument, but of course you know that.

[minionofmidas]

Plus in America there are virtual bannings in the form of the NC-17 rating (Especially for those living outside the big cities - though it's the same here.), am I not mistaken?

Hardly comparable. Showgirls was NC-17, it played. A Dirty Shame was NC-17, it played in theaters. Many rental places (maybe not Blockbuster but little locally owned places) carry NC-17 movies, even in North Dakota. You can also buy them on amazon.com, etc. While they are more difficult to get than big mainstream releases, the same also applies to independent films that aren't NC-17, it's nowhere near a virtual banning.

Plus in recent years it's become a fashion among American film makers to bastardize their film to make sure it gets a PG-13 certificate. Not official censorship I know, but the censorship of falling profits (which is always more powerful; especially to Hollywood.)

What movies? I've only heard of movies adding MORE content to get an R rating (typically a few more swear words or something)

Mainstream releases. Especially in horror; Alien vs Predator comes to mind. Though I have heard the opposite - Gosford Park was made R by the director to scare the dumb kids away. (IIRC)

Alien vs. Predator was a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE movie that I don't give a damn about. Even in that case, the same edited version would appear in all countries, so it's hardly a banning.

Why should it?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

In addition, no character may be portrayed as being under 18, regardless of the actual age of the actor, and if they perform a sexual act or not.

I thought this law existed in the US as well?

If it did, there are even some mainstream movies (American Pie) that would be banned.