Goldwater '68 instead of '64.

[Jacobtm]

If Barry Goldwater hadn't run for President in '64, and Johnson beat whichever Republican ran, and Johnson's term as President played out essentially the same, could Goldwater have won in '68?

[DownWithTheLeft]

If Barry Goldwater hadn't run for President in '64, and Johnson beat whichever Republican ran, and Johnson's term as President played out essentially the same, could Goldwater have won in '68?

No. Any time that Goldwater ran, than he would have lost. Humphrey could have kicked his butt.

What an insightful answer

[CPT MikeyMike]

Golwater does better but still loses to Humphrey by a wide margin.

Humphrey: 361
Goldwater: 177

[minionofmidas]

Who runs in 1964? Nixon?

[Reaganfan]

Who runs in 1964? Nixon?

No, Nixon had no interest. Probably Rockefeller.

[CPT MikeyMike]

Who runs in 1964? Nixon?

No, Nixon had no interest. Probably Rockefeller.

I'd say Scranton - Rocky was damaged by his divorce and re-marriage.

[Dr. Cynic]

Well, let's reverse the Republican nominees. Everything stays the same historically... Nixon loses in 64 by a wide margain, and slips into historical obscurity. Nixon's (Considered a moderate) loss only strengthens conservatives desire to take over the party from the likes of Nixon, Rockefeller, and Scranton. Their best weapons are Senator Barry Goldwater, and former film actor and New Deal Democrat turned conservative Governor of California, Ronald Reagan.

Reagan has been more concerned with California, and thus decides not to run paving the way for Goldwater who crushes his moderate opponents Nelson Rockefeller and Bill Scranton. For his runningmate, he smartly selects Michigan Representative Gerald Ford, a moderate.

On the Democratic side, with Vietnam still raging and the death of Bobby Kennedy weighing heavily, the demoralized Democrats gather in Chicago to annoint Hubert Humphrey as the Presidential nominee, with his running mate, Edmund Muskie.

George Wallace, egged on to run, refuses and endorses Goldwater and Ford.

The campaign is a knockout fight from the start. Goldwater runs ads calling Humphrey a commie sympathizer and in the south with the help of the astute leaders such as Wallace and Thurmond, he mobilizes many southerners who are appalled with Humphrey and his famous stand on equal rights.

On the opposite end, Humphrey breaks from Johnson much earlier, encouraging his old liberal supporters with his call to end the war. Goldwater and Humphrey, friends outside of politics refrain from attacking each other and agree to debate, after which, Humphrey's numbers increase, as they see him as more genuine and less bellicose than the violently extreme Goldwater.

On election night, twenty years of work finally pays off. Hubert Humphrey, the face of the liberals since the death of Kennedy wins the election.

[minionofmidas]

Who runs in 1964? Nixon?

No, Nixon had no interest. Probably Rockefeller.

If Nixon had won his 62 race, he would have been interested.

Rockefeller... that would change things. For one thing, 64 would have gone VERY differently. (Rockefeller might have lost almost as badly as Goldwater, given how popular Johnson was, but his support would have been localized elsewhere.)

Well, let's reverse the Republican nominees. Everything stays the same historically... Nixon loses in 64 by a wide margain, and slips into historical obscurity. Nixon's (Considered a moderate) loss only strengthens conservatives desire to take over the party from the likes of Nixon, Rockefeller, and Scranton.

Nixon was NOT considered a moderate in the 50s or in 1962, and would not have been considered a moderate in 64 if he had stayed on the radar at all. He would not have been considered a moderate in 68 except for the contrast with Goldwater, either.

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And if Nixon had won in 62 (which I suppose is necessary for a 64 presidential run), there would have been no Governor Reagan. Unless we assume he was Nixon's Lt.Gov., and was then elected Governor in his own right in 66.

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Not happening.

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Humphrey was the face of the liberals UNTIL the death of Kennedy, not since. Kennedy was not considered much of a liberal until he began to govern like one (on Civil Rights).

But if the campaign had gone as you describe it, which I don't think possible, than Goldwater would probably have won.

[minionofmidas]

Reagan wasn't even seen as potential future professional politician in 1962. Nixon's actual running mate (if that's the word - they're elected separately) was liberal SF mayor George Christopher, who also lost (and would go on to lose the 66 primary to Reagan.)