Jury finds that Donald Trump sexually abused E. Jean Carroll in civil case

[GP270watch]

 Trump isn't a sexual predator like O.J. isn't a murderer because he was only held liable in a civil suit.

[S019]

Well the fallout is already beginning:

https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1656034069379989509?s=20
https://twitter.com/bresreports/status/1656033996998885391?s=20

You guys are grasping at straws. Trump is in big trouble and it's only going to get worse for him from here

Yep, what the current polls miss is that Trump is going to be stuck in a lot of scandals and he is going to be just totally destroyed at the debates when everyone gangs up on him. I suspect DeSantis will be the main beneficiary in the end, but it could be Haley or someone else.

[Hammy]

Nothing burger.

Being found guilty for battery and sexual assault is not a “nothing burger”. What a terrible thing to say.

Unfortunately with regards to what impact this will have on Trump's political career (as this is an elections forum and Trump is a candidate), he's not wrong.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Fox is not ignoring it:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1656021428955754496

[Pheurton Skeurto]

Fox is not ignoring it:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1656021428955754496

My god, that clip from the deposition is just...wow. Just amazing stuff. Trump is an inspiring example of how anyone can be president, even if their brain is oatmeal.

[SteveRogers]

Well the fallout is already beginning:

https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1656034069379989509?s=20
https://twitter.com/bresreports/status/1656033996998885391?s=20

You guys are grasping at straws. Trump is in big trouble and it's only going to get worse for him from here

Yep, what the current polls miss is that Trump is going to be stuck in a lot of scandals and he is going to be just totally destroyed at the debates when everyone gangs up on him. I suspect DeSantis will be the main beneficiary in the end, but it could be Haley or someone else.

The question is whether said “fallout” will last longer than the normal 36 hours this time.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Fox is not ignoring it:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1656021428955754496

My god, that clip from the deposition is just...wow. Just amazing stuff. Trump is an inspiring example of how anyone can be president, even if their brain is oatmeal.

Trump is certainly not the only reason that we are definitely not a meritocracy.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1656033755432099841

[Inmate Trump]

Well the fallout is already beginning:

https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1656034069379989509?s=20
https://twitter.com/bresreports/status/1656033996998885391?s=20

You guys are grasping at straws. Trump is in big trouble and it's only going to get worse for him from here

Yep, what the current polls miss is that Trump is going to be stuck in a lot of scandals and he is going to be just totally destroyed at the debates when everyone gangs up on him. I suspect DeSantis will be the main beneficiary in the end, but it could be Haley or someone else.

The question is whether said “fallout” will last longer than the normal 36 hours this time.

Most of these people have no spine.

[Pheurton Skeurto]

Well, anyway, it's not like Trump would ever rape anyone or have a documented history of violence towards wom--

In Hurt’s account, Trump was furious that a “scalp reduction” operation he’d undergone to eliminate a bald spot had been unexpectedly painful. Ivana had recommended the plastic surgeon. In retaliation, Hurt wrote, Trump yanked out a handful of his wife’s hair, and then forced himself on her sexually. Afterward, according to the book, she spent the night locked in a bedroom, crying; in the morning, Trump asked her, “with menacing casualness, ‘Does it hurt?’”

Oh.

[GALeftist]

https://twitter.com/PopCrave/status/1656018047646461952

Wow, convicted sexual abuser sounds pretty bad. My understanding, though, is that because this was reported by a major online media company, one could not be held liable for believing it to be an accurate descriptor of Mr. Trump and saying as much. I haven't been following this story much, but I'll default to trusting this source and conclude that this could definitely be correct and share it widely, especially with any swing voters in my life.

Not to be overly pedantic, but again, it’s a civil suit, so he’s not a convicted anything.

That was my joke, the coverage is inaccurate

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that this statement is true: Trump was found guilty of sexual abuse.

That statement actually isn't true.  He was found liable for sexual abuse.  A civil trial does not determine guilt or innocence.

[DaleCooper]

All of the Republicans currently expressing concern will support Donald Trump in the end. Every horrible thing he's accused of ultimately gets incorporated into their perception of what "Real America" is, and sexual abuse liability will be no exception.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I'm definitely happy that Trump was found liable on the sexual abuse and related allegations. I'm reasonably convinced that he very likely committed these assault, and it's absolutely right that he face consequences for it.  It's too bad that a criminal trial on this is not really feasible.

I'm more uneasy about the defamation verdict.  As a fairly strong civil libertarian, I generally don't think anyone should be subject to a defamation claim as a consequence of attempting to defend themselves from serious criminal allegations.  I worry that this could have a chilling effect on the right of criminal defendants to question the credibility of criminal accusers.

[emailking]

It determines guilt or innocence to a different confidence level.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

It determines guilt or innocence to a different confidence level.

No it doesn't.
Trump was not charged with a crime here.
He was accused of a tort.
You cannot be "guilty" of a tort; that is a description that is confined to criminal trials.
You can be liable for a tort, which is what the jury found.

[Badger]

Well the fallout is already beginning:

https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1656034069379989509?s=20
https://twitter.com/bresreports/status/1656033996998885391?s=20

You guys are grasping at straws. Trump is in big trouble and it's only going to get worse for him from here

Yep, what the current polls miss is that Trump is going to be stuck in a lot of scandals and he is going to be just totally destroyed at the debates when everyone gangs up on him. I suspect DeSantis will be the main beneficiary in the end, but it could be Haley or someone else.

This is why I think the threads that DeSantis is DOA are grossly premature and likely wrong. Between this civil suit verdict, at least one indictment, probably at least one or more additional ones by the time primary season starts I believe the large majority of Republican primary and caucus voters will understand that this guy who wants got very lucky by threading the needle with the Electoral College 8 years ago is completely unelectable.

DeSantis may not exactly be setting the world on fire, and I suppose it's possible that some other candidate like Haley or Scott might come out of the woodwork as the primary season moves on, DeSantis still looks like a solid odds on favorite for the nomination. Frankly, unless Trump completely collapses that will only help DeSantis as it will provide less oxygen for another candidate to grow as a contender against him and trump.

[emailking]

It determines guilt or innocence to a different confidence level.

No it doesn't.
Trump was not charged with a crime here.
He was accused of a tort.
You cannot be "guilty" of a tort; that is a description that is confined to criminal trials.
You can be liable for a tort, which is what the jury found.

But he can't be found liable of sexually abusing her unless they find it's more likely than not he sexually abused her. So in that sense he was found guilty of doing that to that confidence level.

[DaleCooper]

Well the fallout is already beginning:

https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1656034069379989509?s=20
https://twitter.com/bresreports/status/1656033996998885391?s=20

You guys are grasping at straws. Trump is in big trouble and it's only going to get worse for him from here

Yep, what the current polls miss is that Trump is going to be stuck in a lot of scandals and he is going to be just totally destroyed at the debates when everyone gangs up on him. I suspect DeSantis will be the main beneficiary in the end, but it could be Haley or someone else.

This is why I think the threads that DeSantis is DOA are grossly premature and likely wrong. Between this civil suit verdict, at least one indictment, probably at least one or more additional ones by the time primary season starts I believe the large majority of Republican primary and caucus voters will understand that this guy who wants got very lucky by threading the needle with the Electoral College 8 years ago is completely unelectable.

DeSantis may not exactly be setting the world on fire, and I suppose it's possible that some other candidate like Haley or Scott might come out of the woodwork as the primary season moves on, DeSantis still looks like a solid odds on favorite for the nomination. Frankly, unless Trump completely collapses that will only help DeSantis as it will provide less oxygen for another candidate to grow as a contender against him and trump.

The problem with DeSantis is that he is trying to defeat Trump by worshipping Trump and never going further than a backhanded compliment. Obviously he can't get away with offending Trump's worshippers but he going to need to be critical of him and he's refusing to do that. All he's doing is obsessing over fake cultural issues.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

It determines guilt or innocence to a different confidence level.

No it doesn't.
Trump was not charged with a crime here.
He was accused of a tort.
You cannot be "guilty" of a tort; that is a description that is confined to criminal trials.
You can be liable for a tort, which is what the jury found.

But he can't be found liable of sexually abusing her unless they find it's more likely than not he sexually abused her. So in that sense he was found guilty of doing that to that confidence level.

The tort of sexual abuse is not necessarily the same as the crime of sexual abuse.
The jury found that he likely committed acts that constitute the tort of sexual abuse.
But they never considered whether he was guilty of any crime.
And it's just not accurate to say someone was "found guilty" of a tort.

[SteveRogers]

It determines guilt or innocence to a different confidence level.

No it doesn't.
Trump was not charged with a crime here.
He was accused of a tort.
You cannot be "guilty" of a tort; that is a description that is confined to criminal trials.
You can be liable for a tort, which is what the jury found.

But he can't be found liable of sexually abusing her unless they find it's more likely that than not he sexually abused her. So in that sense he was found guilty of doing that to that confidence level.

But that’s not what “guilty” means in a legal sense either. A jury in a criminal case has two possible verdicts: “guilty” or “not guilty,” with “guilty” meaning the jury is convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Anything less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt results in a not guilty verdict. There’s no such thing as being guilty by a lesser standard of proof.

[°Leprechaun]

We can now say..
"Trump fought the law and the law one."

It's about time.

[emailking]

It determines guilt or innocence to a different confidence level.

No it doesn't.
Trump was not charged with a crime here.
He was accused of a tort.
You cannot be "guilty" of a tort; that is a description that is confined to criminal trials.
You can be liable for a tort, which is what the jury found.

But he can't be found liable of sexually abusing her unless they find it's more likely that than not he sexually abused her. So in that sense he was found guilty of doing that to that confidence level.

But that’s not what “guilty” means in a legal sense either. A jury in a criminal case has two possible verdicts: “guilty” or “not guilty,” with “guilty” meaning the jury is convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Anything less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt results in a not guilty verdict. There’s no such thing as being guilty by a lesser standard of proof.

I don't necessarily mean it in a legal sense and I don't think wbrocks did either. We're not a courtroom.

[Yoda]

Inb4 the blue avatars explain how this is actually good for Trump.

They'd be only half wrong. It helps him in the primary (not that he needed any more help; he's beating DeSantis like a rented mule) but now Biden can credibly call trump a sexual predator and a pervert in the general. Due to the Access Hollywood tape, democrats should have been calling trump these things for years now, but democrats gonna democrat ya know.

[emailking]

12 people listened to all of the evidence and followed instructions to find it was more likely than not that he sexually abused her (tort definition, sure). So they found he was guilty of doing. It doesn't mean that they thought he did it beyond a reasonable doubt, or that they would if the rules of evidence in a criminal trial were followed, and that statement doesn't imply such either.