Opinion of educated Republicans?

[Continential]

What are we citing for the “47% of college educated voters voted for Trump”? That doesn’t add up.

Fox News had Biden winning college educated voters 57-41, and CNN had him winning them 55-43. I think it’s generally agreed upon that Biden won college-educated white voters, and when you factor that in, there’s no way Trump got anywhere close to 47% among the wider college degree pool.

This is a weird poll. Why judge people with a giant brush? I will say there are definitely some more fringe weirdos among the college educated Republican cohort that tend to be very vocal and edgy. Blake Masters comes to mind. I don’t think they do the GOP any favors.

I got it from here which cites the CNN exit poll.

[Tiger08]

Interestingly, college educated evangelicals are no less Republican than non-college educated evangelicals.  Though, there are definitely differences in primary voting habits between the two (I'd actually argue that the college educated group is more ideological).

How many Evangelical Democrats are there, period?

That depends.  At a church like mine (very theologically conservative non-denominational church that sometimes addresses things like abortion and sexuality from the pulpit), it's very few.  If I had to guess, I'd say my church was something like 95-3 (Trump-Biden).  But, there are other churches that would count as evangelical that aren't as unanimous.

There are some evangelical churches (especially in large cities, college towns, and some suburbs) that tend to be more moderate (maybe even left of center) on racial issues and tend to emphasize that more than the stereotypical evangelical church does. Many evangelical churches, both more politically moderate and more conservative (except for the prosperity gospel types, which many evangelicals do not even consider to be lowercase-o orthodox Christianity), talk about feeding the poor, etc., but the type of church I am mentioning tends to do so through the lens and language of "justice" and uses some language that for better or worse "sounds" left leaning. They also strongly emphasize not tying one's identity to one political party but to Jesus first and foremost. They still tend to be socially conservative, but tend to talk about it in a different way and tone than other evangelicals might. They would also likely lean somewhat to the left on immigration and maybe healthcare. Most people at these churches would not identify as partisan Democrats, but they are somewhat likely to be independents and do not always vote for Republicans (especially in the Trump era).

[Ferguson97]

Interestingly, college educated evangelicals are no less Republican than non-college educated evangelicals.  Though, there are definitely differences in primary voting habits between the two (I'd actually argue that the college educated group is more ideological).

How many Evangelical Democrats are there, period?

Ever heard of Black people?  lmao

~14% of Black people are Evangelicals. 12% of Black people voted Republican in 2020.

I'd hazard a guess that those two groups have significant overlap.

[Badger]

@Vosem (deleting wall of text)

Before you start going on too much about everyone's favorite model minorities of Asians, you better understand that that is EXTREMELY depending on which Asian American subset you are talking about. Some groups like Japanese Americans who've been here for in cases over a century and a half, and many of immigrated as engineer or other professional positions, non-shockingly enough do rather well. And yes there are many examples of Vietnamese who have done well, but they had a very strong social safety net within the community that helped finance purchases of small businesses, etc. Not to mention substantial support from the US government helping them to relocate and get established.

But then you have other subsets such as cambodians and Hmong who have every bit as much the problem of ghettoization, poverty, gang affiliation among youth, Etc as African Americans or Native Americans. Hell, even in New York City the long established Chinese community has among the highest unemployment rate of any ethnic group in the city. And no, just because some of them are paid off under the table in Chinatown doesn't make any different from Hispanics and indeed many white ethnics immigrants like the Russians and the polish who are similarly so paid.

Again, please go right ahead patting yourself on the back for being so smart to figure out that racism's effect on the economy is a combination of negligible and ancient history, and is really just used by progressives to Gin up minority votes. Lord knows blacks and other minorities can't figure out on their own that they're being screwed by the economy over racism.

As a Asian Vietnamese American, I will stay silent on this. I have a lot of opinions on this, but for the sake of this thread....

I'd genuinely like your observations here.  I'll hasten to note there are notable economic differences within the Vietnamese community.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Interestingly, college educated evangelicals are no less Republican than non-college educated evangelicals.  Though, there are definitely differences in primary voting habits between the two (I'd actually argue that the college educated group is more ideological).

How many Evangelical Democrats are there, period?

Ever heard of Black people?  lmao

~14% of Black people are Evangelicals. 12% of Black people voted Republican in 2020.

I'd hazard a guess that those two groups have significant overlap.

If that was the case then republicans would be getting around 20% of the Black vote in the south and only around 5% in the north and that is absolutely not the case . There is very little regional differences when it comes to the African American vote and the little differences that are there is that republicans do even worse in the south than the north .

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

The "punching up versus punching down" dichotomy is a hypocritical exercise in permissive cruelty and those who support it uncritically is usually a sick, twisted, and hateful person.

If you think punching is bad, it's best not to punch anybody.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

The "punching up versus punching down" dichotomy is a hypocritical exercise in permissive cruelty and those who support it uncritically is usually a sick, twisted, and hateful person.

If you think punching is bad, it's best not to punch anybody.

🤨

Exhibit A

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

The "punching up versus punching down" dichotomy is a hypocritical exercise in permissive cruelty and those who support it uncritically is usually a sick, twisted, and hateful person.

If you think punching is bad, it's best not to punch anybody.

🤨

Exhibit A

I'm not a Republican and I fully "understand" the difference, I just think it's a fake way for you to be an asshole to people without taking any kind of responsibility ✌️

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

The "punching up versus punching down" dichotomy is a hypocritical exercise in permissive cruelty and those who support it uncritically is usually a sick, twisted, and hateful person.

If you think punching is bad, it's best not to punch anybody.

🤨

Exhibit A

I'm not a Republican and I fully "understand" the difference, I just think it's a fake way for you to be an asshole to people without taking any kind of responsibility ✌️

So in your mind a black person making fun of racist or a gay making fun of bigots is not ok?

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

The "punching up versus punching down" dichotomy is a hypocritical exercise in permissive cruelty and those who support it uncritically is usually a sick, twisted, and hateful person.

If you think punching is bad, it's best not to punch anybody.

🤨

Exhibit A

I'm not a Republican and I fully "understand" the difference, I just think it's a fake way for you to be an asshole to people without taking any kind of responsibility ✌️

So in your mind a black person making fun of racist or a gay making fun of bigots is not ok?

I fully understand you think this is a clever gotcha question but I'm not going to answer it unless you tell me specifically what you mean by "making fun of" and "okay" in this hypothetical.

edit: to demonstrate that I am fully understanding of the trap you are lazily trying to set, I will at least say this. Any behavior that I would find an unacceptable form of "punching" coming from a Black person towards a racist or bigot would be just as much if not considerably more objectionable if the roles were reversed.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

The "punching up versus punching down" dichotomy is a hypocritical exercise in permissive cruelty and those who support it uncritically is usually a sick, twisted, and hateful person.

If you think punching is bad, it's best not to punch anybody.

🤨

Exhibit A

I'm not a Republican and I fully "understand" the difference, I just think it's a fake way for you to be an asshole to people without taking any kind of responsibility ✌️

So in your mind a black person making fun of racist or a gay making fun of bigots is not ok?

I fully understand you think this is a clever gotcha question but I'm not going to answer it unless you tell me specifically what you mean by "making fun of" and "okay" in this hypothetical.

edit: to demonstrate that I am fully understanding of the trap you are lazily trying to set, I will at least say this. Any behavior that I would find an unacceptable form of "punching" coming from a Black person towards a racist or bigot would be just as much if not considerably more objectionable if the roles were reversed.

I actually wasn’t trying to lay any trap. I am genuinely curious about what you deem as acceptable. The last sentence answers my question which is what I suspected so that’s why I asked.

I find that a strange position as you are not taking into accounts any sort social positioning. You’re entitled to think that sure but it’s a harmful position as it leads people equating minorities fighting oppression with oppressors enforcing it. It’s your life believe what you want.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

I find that a strange position as you are not taking into accounts any sort social positioning. You’re entitled to think that sure but it’s a harmful position as it leads people equating minorities fighting oppression with oppressors enforcing it. It’s your life believe what you want.

This is a mischaracterization and does not agree with my position on this concept at all.

For one thing, social positioning is complex, subjective, context-dependent, and arbitrary. Second, putting aside the first point, higher social position does not mean that individuals are incapable of pain and suffering that is implied by the use of the word "punching." Third, fighting oppression and enforcing it are literal opposites, so not only is that a statement I disagree with vehemently but it doesn't really have anything to do with "punching up versus punching down" which implies the same action with different moral stances depending on the identities of the recipient and the source of the punch.

I don't know how you could have possibly thought that that is something I would agree with given the response I gave to your initial question.

[Spectator]

What are we citing for the “47% of college educated voters voted for Trump”? That doesn’t add up.

Fox News had Biden winning college educated voters 57-41, and CNN had him winning them 55-43. I think it’s generally agreed upon that Biden won college-educated white voters, and when you factor that in, there’s no way Trump got anywhere close to 47% among the wider college degree pool.

This is a weird poll. Why judge people with a giant brush? I will say there are definitely some more fringe weirdos among the college educated Republican cohort that tend to be very vocal and edgy. Blake Masters comes to mind. I don’t think they do the GOP any favors.

I got it from here which cites the CNN exit poll.

Oh, got it. “Bachelors only, excluding people with a masters or higher.” That checks out then. College educated voters on the whole, including those with masters/professional degrees are pretty overwhelmingly Democrat.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

I find that a strange position as you are not taking into accounts any sort social positioning. You’re entitled to think that sure but it’s a harmful position as it leads people equating minorities fighting oppression with oppressors enforcing it. It’s your life believe what you want.

This is a mischaracterization and does not agree with my position on this concept at all.

For one thing, social positioning is complex, subjective, context-dependent, and arbitrary. Second, putting aside the first point, higher social position does not mean that individuals are incapable of pain and suffering that is implied by the use of the word "punching." Third, fighting oppression and enforcing it are literal opposites, so not only is that a statement I disagree with vehemently but it doesn't really have anything to do with "punching up versus punching down" which implies the same action with different moral stances depending on the identities of the recipient and the source of the punch.

I don't know how you could have possibly thought that that is something I would agree with given the response I gave to your initial question.

Every time I read your posts I get more confused as to what your actual position is.

[OSR stands with Israel]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

What we view as “up” is different than what you guys as “up”. We view bureaucrats and administrators as people whose power we should reduce .

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

What we view as “up” is different than what you guys as “up”. We view bureaucrats and administrators as people whose power we should reduce .

Literally when has any seriously said you can’t make fun of bureaucrats.

Hating on the DMV and the IRS is like the one universal in American politics

[jojoju1998]

@Vosem (deleting wall of text)

Before you start going on too much about everyone's favorite model minorities of Asians, you better understand that that is EXTREMELY depending on which Asian American subset you are talking about. Some groups like Japanese Americans who've been here for in cases over a century and a half, and many of immigrated as engineer or other professional positions, non-shockingly enough do rather well. And yes there are many examples of Vietnamese who have done well, but they had a very strong social safety net within the community that helped finance purchases of small businesses, etc. Not to mention substantial support from the US government helping them to relocate and get established.

But then you have other subsets such as cambodians and Hmong who have every bit as much the problem of ghettoization, poverty, gang affiliation among youth, Etc as African Americans or Native Americans. Hell, even in New York City the long established Chinese community has among the highest unemployment rate of any ethnic group in the city. And no, just because some of them are paid off under the table in Chinatown doesn't make any different from Hispanics and indeed many white ethnics immigrants like the Russians and the polish who are similarly so paid.

Again, please go right ahead patting yourself on the back for being so smart to figure out that racism's effect on the economy is a combination of negligible and ancient history, and is really just used by progressives to Gin up minority votes. Lord knows blacks and other minorities can't figure out on their own that they're being screwed by the economy over racism.

As a Asian Vietnamese American, I will stay silent on this. I have a lot of opinions on this, but for the sake of this thread....

I'd genuinely like your observations here.  I'll hasten to note there are notable economic differences within the Vietnamese community.

Fine.

Asian American culture as a whole is highly communal. We do everything together. Got to any Vietnamese Church; catholic or Christian, and you will see a huge lay/community involvement. This sprinkles down as you noted to virtually a separate social welfare net. That being said; this communal mindset is also very stressful. Kids are forced to study hard; even to the point of stress, because they represent basically the whole community. ( and the Confucian culture doesn't help with that.).

Many Asian immigrant groups also do not trust outsiders. This would explain the high level of non english speaks you mention. Many Asian groups are far less assimilated than one might think.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Interestingly, college educated evangelicals are no less Republican than non-college educated evangelicals.  Though, there are definitely differences in primary voting habits between the two (I'd actually argue that the college educated group is more ideological).

How many Evangelical Democrats are there, period?

Ever heard of Black people?  lmao

~14% of Black people are Evangelicals. 12% of Black people voted Republican in 2020.

I'd hazard a guess that those two groups have significant overlap.

If that was the case then republicans would be getting around 20% of the Black vote in the south and only around 5% in the north and that is absolutely not the case . There is very little regional differences when it comes to the African American vote and the little differences that are there is that republicans do even worse in the south than the north .

Yes and no.  I think black evangelical Christians who attend majority-white evangelical churches are pretty Republican.  But, those voters also don't live in heavily black communities, so it's hard to do a lot of analysis on their voting patterns.

[Del Tachi]

Interestingly, college educated evangelicals are no less Republican than non-college educated evangelicals.  Though, there are definitely differences in primary voting habits between the two (I'd actually argue that the college educated group is more ideological).

How many Evangelical Democrats are there, period?

Ever heard of Black people?  lmao

~14% of Black people are Evangelicals. 12% of Black people voted Republican in 2020.

I'd hazard a guess that those two groups have significant overlap.

You're being extremely disingenuous.  Only 14% of Black Americans belong to historically White Evangelical denominations (like the Southern Baptist Convention) , but 53% more are members of historically Black Protestant churches, among which the largest traditions are Baptist (35%), Pentecostal (7%) and Methodist (4%).  

And rather conservative Baptists, Pentecostals and Methodists at that.  The closest thing Black Protestantism has to a "Main Line" denomination is the African Methodist Episcopal Church, and within that tradition:

--95% aboslutely sure they believe in God
--86% say religion "very important" to them
--55% say the Bible should be taken literally
--59% attend church at least once weekly
--83% pray daily
--62% read the Bible at least once weekly
--54% oppose same-sex marriage
--49% believe in evolution

Compare that to White members of the United Methodist Church:

--71% absolutely sure they believe in God
--60% say religion "very important" to them
--27% say the Bible should be taken literally
--43% attend church at least once weekly
--61% pray daily
--38% read the Bible at least once weekly
--43% oppose same-sex marriage
--56% believe in evolution

If you want to compare these numbers to White Evangelicals, here are the answers for Whites who identify with the Southern Baptist Convention:

--90% absolutely certain they believe in God
--81% say religion "very important" to them
--62% say the Bible should be taken literally
--57% attend church at least once weekly
--80% pray daily
--63% read the Bible at least once weekly
--74% oppose same-sex marriage
--35% believe in evolution

And to look at the largest Baptist tradition among Black Americans, let's consider the National Baptist Convention (i.e., the largest historically Black denomination in the U.S.):

--90% aboslutely certain they believe in God
--91% say religion "very important" to them
--64% say the Bible should be taken literally
--60% attend church at least once weekly
--82% pray daily
--66% read the Bible at least weekly
--56% oppose same-sex marriage
--46% believe in evolution

So yes, Black Americans who belong to their "mainstream" Baptist denomination are just as Evangelical/theologically conservative as White Americans who belong to the Southern Baptist Convention.  And "liberal" theology is a concept almost entirely found among White Christians (i.e., Black Methodists are notably more conservative than White Methodists on most issues.)    

[Ferguson97]

You're being extremely disingenuous.  Only 14% of Black Americans belong to historically White Evangelical denominations (like the Southern Baptist Convention) , but 53% more are members of historically Black Protestant churches, among which the largest traditions are Baptist (35%), Pentecostal (7%) and Methodist (4%).  

And rather conservative Baptists, Pentecostals and Methodists at that.  The closest thing Black Protestantism has to a "Main Line" denomination is the African Methodist Episcopal Church, and within that tradition:

[snip]

So yes, Black Americans who belong to their "mainstream" Baptist denomination are just as Evangelical/theologically conservative as White Americans who belong to the Southern Baptist Convention.  And "liberal" theology is a concept almost entirely found among White Christians (i.e., Black Methodists are notably more conservative than White Methodists on most issues.)    

Then you're using an overly broad definition of "Evangelical".

[RFayette 🇻🇦]

Evangelicalism is incredibly difficult to define.  For example, LCMS Lutherans - who have very different beliefs regarding baptism and the eucharist than Evangelical Baptists - often receive the Evangelical label nonetheless. 

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Ive said this before and I’ll say it again and this will be all I say.

A lot of people on this site confuse the political/social definition of evangelical in America with the ecumenical definition of evangelical

[Del Tachi]

You're being extremely disingenuous.  Only 14% of Black Americans belong to historically White Evangelical denominations (like the Southern Baptist Convention) , but 53% more are members of historically Black Protestant churches, among which the largest traditions are Baptist (35%), Pentecostal (7%) and Methodist (4%). 

And rather conservative Baptists, Pentecostals and Methodists at that.  The closest thing Black Protestantism has to a "Main Line" denomination is the African Methodist Episcopal Church, and within that tradition:

[snip]

So yes, Black Americans who belong to their "mainstream" Baptist denomination are just as Evangelical/theologically conservative as White Americans who belong to the Southern Baptist Convention.  And "liberal" theology is a concept almost entirely found among White Christians (i.e., Black Methodists are notably more conservative than White Methodists on most issues.)     

Then you're using an overly broad definition of "Evangelical".

What is an Evangelical then, Fergie?  Please tell us your motivated definition LOL

[jojoju1998]

Ive said this before and I’ll say it again and this will be all I say.

A lot of people on this sight confuse the political/social definition of evangelical in America with the ecumenical definition of evangelical

Well the Evangelical Family Tree is filled with many denominations.... some of which are very.... politically active.

[It’s so Joever]

This thread drives home the point that republicans don’t understand the difference between punching up and punching down

What we view as “up” is different than what you guys as “up”. We view bureaucrats and administrators as people whose power we should reduce .

Right, because the local DMV worker is more “up” than Jeff Bezos bcuz gubmint bad. This is your “brain” on American “conservatism”.