Chicago Police not responding to crime: “This is happening because Brandon Johnson got elected.”

[RINO Tom]

If what everyone is implying is true, then of course these people are not fit to be cops and should be fired. But this is also exactly what I'm saying is that we have bad cops now, and will have even worse cops in the future if the better ones with options leave for greener pastures. Undersupporting the police is going to result in a bunch of leftover bad cops who do not want to do their job.

Brandon Johnson wants to plant seeds that will stop the tendency toward crime by giving opportunities to youth early on. That is all fine and good. But that does not fix things overnight. In the meantime, the people who are already out in the streets committing crime are not going to stop. Even if down the road Chicago benefits from his initiatives down the road, what are we going to do about the problems that are facing us now?

Exactly ... it is PATHETICALLY too woke to try to "grandfather in" crime, lmao.  If you want to try to address underlying community issues in an attempt to decrease future crime, great!  But there is no excuse for current crime and nothing to do about it other than hold the perpetrators accountable so that innocent people are not affected.  Period, period, period!

You know he’s not the mayor yet right

What does that have to do with anything I said?  His rhetoric in the face of people damaging private property for literally no reason and scaring law-abiding citizens living in those areas is to downplay the criminality of it because of the underlying reasons for why these kids might be frustrated with society, as if those frustrations in ANY way excuse crime happening right now.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Cute how people still think that the job of police is to protect people from crime.

[GP270watch]

Cute how people still think that the job of police is to protect people from crime.

 Especially Chicago police who are historically corrupt and inept and for most of their history have been given free reign to brutalize Black people.

https://chicagopolicetorturearchive.com/

A corrupt Chicago cop destroyed hundreds of lives. Now victims want justice.

[RINO Tom]

Cute how people still think that the job of police is to protect people from crime.

 Especially Chicago police who are historically corrupt and inept and for most of their history have been given free reign to brutalize Black people.

https://chicagopolicetorturearchive.com/

A corrupt Chicago cop destroyed hundreds of lives. Now victims want justice.

And exactly what attitude would be "correct" for us to have in Chicago as hundreds of people jump on cars, start fires, smash in store windows and generally frighten innocent civilians who have done nothing wrong?  I'm sorry people here think it's "cute" for us to want these people arrested for, ya know, committing crimes.

[world.execute(me)]

If what everyone is implying is true, then of course these people are not fit to be cops and should be fired. But this is also exactly what I'm saying is that we have bad cops now, and will have even worse cops in the future if the better ones with options leave for greener pastures. Undersupporting the police is going to result in a bunch of leftover bad cops who do not want to do their job.

Brandon Johnson wants to plant seeds that will stop the tendency toward crime by giving opportunities to youth early on. That is all fine and good. But that does not fix things overnight. In the meantime, the people who are already out in the streets committing crime are not going to stop. Even if down the road Chicago benefits from his initiatives down the road, what are we going to do about the problems that are facing us now?

Exactly ... it is PATHETICALLY too woke to try to "grandfather in" crime, lmao.  If you want to try to address underlying community issues in an attempt to decrease future crime, great!  But there is no excuse for current crime and nothing to do about it other than hold the perpetrators accountable so that innocent people are not affected.  Period, period, period!

You know he’s not the mayor yet right

What does that have to do with anything I said?  His rhetoric in the face of people damaging private property for literally no reason and scaring law-abiding citizens living in those areas is to downplay the criminality of it because of the underlying reasons for why these kids might be frustrated with society, as if those frustrations in ANY way excuse crime happening right now.

The reasons don't excuse it, but they are generally a mitigating circumstance.

[GP270watch]

Cute how people still think that the job of police is to protect people from crime.

 Especially Chicago police who are historically corrupt and inept and for most of their history have been given free reign to brutalize Black people.

https://chicagopolicetorturearchive.com/

A corrupt Chicago cop destroyed hundreds of lives. Now victims want justice.

And exactly what attitude would be "correct" for us to have in Chicago as hundreds of people jump on cars, start fires, smash in store windows and generally frighten innocent civilians who have done nothing wrong?  I'm sorry people here think it's "cute" for us to want these people arrested for, ya know, committing crimes.

 Chicago is obviously doing something wrong if the youth have nothing better to do than this. Maybe start there. Obviously the brutality and corrupt policing haven't created a better or safer city, that style of policing has failed, time to try something else.

 

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Cute how people still think that the job of police is to protect people from crime.

 Especially Chicago police who are historically corrupt and inept and for most of their history have been given free reign to brutalize Black people.

https://chicagopolicetorturearchive.com/

A corrupt Chicago cop destroyed hundreds of lives. Now victims want justice.

And exactly what attitude would be "correct" for us to have in Chicago as hundreds of people jump on cars, start fires, smash in store windows and generally frighten innocent civilians who have done nothing wrong?  I'm sorry people here think it's "cute" for us to want these people arrested for, ya know, committing crimes.

 Chicago is obviously doing something wrong if the youth have nothing better to do than this. Maybe start there. Obviously the brutality and corrupt policing haven't created a better or safer city, that style of policing has failed, time to try something else.

 

This is so facile and intellectually hollow.

I don't know if you're implying that the police themselves are the direct reason for a group of fifty teenagers committing physical assault on multiple people and destroying property or not, but it honestly doesn't even matter.

However you want to characterize the true cause of rampant violence in marginalized communities, it's an incredibly complex thing. There is no way of undoing centuries of damage in a even as short a time frame as a decade. Arguably the US is in the process of finally addressing these issues in some serious form and it will take decades to completely eliminate the problem and even an appreciable fraction of its causes.

In the meanwhile, there is no benefit to ignoring the harm that this widespread violence perpetrates. It's so strange to me how it's anathema to so many progressives to even admit that widespread violence is something that needs immediate action.

[GP270watch]

Cute how people still think that the job of police is to protect people from crime.

 Especially Chicago police who are historically corrupt and inept and for most of their history have been given free reign to brutalize Black people.

https://chicagopolicetorturearchive.com/

A corrupt Chicago cop destroyed hundreds of lives. Now victims want justice.

And exactly what attitude would be "correct" for us to have in Chicago as hundreds of people jump on cars, start fires, smash in store windows and generally frighten innocent civilians who have done nothing wrong?  I'm sorry people here think it's "cute" for us to want these people arrested for, ya know, committing crimes.

 Chicago is obviously doing something wrong if the youth have nothing better to do than this. Maybe start there. Obviously the brutality and corrupt policing haven't created a better or safer city, that style of policing has failed, time to try something else.

 

This is so facile and intellectually hollow.

I don't know if you're implying that the police themselves are the direct reason for a group of fifty teenagers committing physical assault on multiple people and destroying property or not, but it honestly doesn't even matter.

However you want to characterize the true cause of rampant violence in marginalized communities, it's an incredibly complex thing. There is no way of undoing centuries of damage in a even as short a time frame as a decade. Arguably the US is in the process of finally addressing these issues in some serious form and it will take decades to completely eliminate the problem and even an appreciable fraction of its causes.

In the meanwhile, there is no benefit to ignoring the harm that this widespread violence perpetrates. It's so strange to me how it's anathema to so many progressives to even admit that widespread violence is something that needs immediate action.

 But we're not. You literally have people advocating for the same failed more police and tough on crime policies. Never did I say violent crime shouldn't be punished but there is no excuse for the way most police have conducted themselves in the Black community. You are easily dismissing insane violence like torture(just read the links I posted) and life-ruining abuse and corruption by trained professionals but then want to go ruin the lives of young people.

 You're the one who is making the facile argument. The police are literally refusing to do their jobs because they want to keep doing things in the broken fashion they've been doing them which we know has been a failure, so who really is ignoring the harm?

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

This is so facile and intellectually hollow.

I don't know if you're implying that the police themselves are the direct reason for a group of fifty teenagers committing physical assault on multiple people and destroying property or not, but it honestly doesn't even matter.

However you want to characterize the true cause of rampant violence in marginalized communities, it's an incredibly complex thing. There is no way of undoing centuries of damage in a even as short a time frame as a decade. Arguably the US is in the process of finally addressing these issues in some serious form and it will take decades to completely eliminate the problem and even an appreciable fraction of its causes.

In the meanwhile, there is no benefit to ignoring the harm that this widespread violence perpetrates. It's so strange to me how it's anathema to so many progressives to even admit that widespread violence is something that needs immediate action.

 But we're not. You literally have people advocating for the same failed more police and tough on crime policies.

Can you think of any time in the history of this country where such a large proportion of the population treated these issues as seriously as they do today? You can't. We have literally never had an era of race- and injustice-consciousness in the history of this nation and probably the entire history of this species.

This is why I called you and your post facile. Because you post and then try to defend unbelievably facile claims like this. Of course society is much, much closer to trying to solve these issues than it ever has been in the past.

Never did I say violent crime shouldn't be punished but there is no excuse for the way most police have conducted themselves in the Black community.

Never did I say violent crime shouldn't be punished but

but

idk man it kind of sounds like you are saying violent crime shouldn't be punished!

You are easily dismissing insane violence like torture(just read the links I posted) and life-ruining
abuse and corruption by trained professionals but then want to go ruin the lives of young people.

This is some of the most upper middle class shit I have ever read on this site. In overpoliced communities, violence like this is a daily reality whether the police are there or not. They are areas that have received centuries of accumulated societal contempt. Removing the police will not stop the violence unless another 20 things are also done. If you remove the police before those other things are in place and set to succeed, you will cause much more of an issue.

We're seeing on average more than one young person per day murdered as a result of casual yet extreme violence even within a single city. The police are not who are murdering them. If you take the police out, that number is a hundred times more likely to go up than it is to go down.

You're the one who is making the facile argument. The police are literally refusing to do their jobs because they want to keep doing things like they've been doing them which we know has been a failure,

I know it's an interpretation of this story that would completely validate your worldview but everybody is running with this idea that police didn't get involved in a single event for one reason without considering alternative motivations at all. It's dumb and, hate to say it my friend, but also very facile.

so who really is ignoring the harm?

You realize that the entire implication of your asking of this question is that the harm (which in this case involves possible murder) is going to occur regardless of whether the police are doing their jobs or not, yes? Are you really thinking this through? If the harm will occur regardless, then removing the police will not solve the problem. So in this case it's undoubtedly you.

[GP270watch]

 You have bad reading comprehension or don't bother to read posts. I said we should have better trained police professionals specializing in the most heinous crimes for the most serious offenses, so they could actually solve crimes. Look at the rate of unsolved murders or sexual assaults and you will see how abysmal the failure of American policing has been. You and I fundamentally disagree because you are ignorant of what the police have been really tasked to do in the Black community. You hint by the things and way you write that the violence is somehow innate or inherent without realizing that it's policies like the War on Drugs, mass incarceration, racism, and the demonizing of poverty that causes the social ills that lead to crimes and dysfunction.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

You have bad reading comprehension or don't bother to read posts. I said we should have better trained police professionals specializing in the most heinous crimes for the most serious offenses,

You literally didn't. You said we should employ civilian patrols to go talk to kids. Then you said we should have professional law enforcement teams or police professionals which we already have in the form of police officers, except you for some reason need to call them "professionals" which implies something different. Then you say we should only have them for heinous crimes and most serious offenses in a thread about a traumatic physical assault at the hands of a crowd of dozens of people as if it is not falling under that umbrella that requires... police officers.

You are a sick gaslighting freak.

so they could actually solve crimes.

"Solve"? Like a mystery? Like in retrospect? You "solve" crimes by preventing them.

"Solve" is what a detective does. Detectives are part of police units! And they have been criminally underfunded in relation to what we think of as a typical "police officer". But even still if you replaced every police officer with a detective (ah - now I see why you kept saying "professional" instead of "officer"!) the rate of assaults like this would go up instead of down.

Look at the rate of unsolved murders or sexual assaults and you will see how abysmal the failure of American policing has been.

This is such a callous conclusion to take from an actual real world problem. It's not a result of the policing - it's a result of the underlying systemic racism that causes police forces or higher organizational powers to de-prioritize detective work.

You and I fundamentally disagree because you are ignorant of what the police have been really tasked to do in the Black community.

Go fuck yourself. I've literally read multiple books - from Rosa Brooks to bell hooks - to try to understand this issue. I was literally reading one of them earlier this evening. Honestly go fuck yourself for trying to insinuate that I am actively ignoring any sort of research or grappling on this issue. Seriously.

You hint by the things and way you write that the violence is somehow innate or inherent without realizing that it's policies like the War on Drugs, mass incarceration, racism, and the demonizing of poverty that causes the social ills that lead to crimes and dysfunction.

Yes you absolute goon - it is inherent to the circumstance of forced poverty, neglect, and marginalization, not inherent to the biology or the culture or whatever you want to define as "race". This is why you're embarrassing yourself - because we agree on this point, and yet you think that whatever ideological filth you're spreading in this thread would actually somehow help people today is somehow in the best interest of anybody who faces literal daily violence like this.

[darklordoftech]

Taft-Hartley needs to be made more enforcable against police.

[GP270watch]

 In most all law enforcement detectives were/are police officers. Many of the same terrible police who have been used as foot soldiers to brutalize the Black community with crap like the war on drugs and mass incarceration, who have no trust with the community, then become detectives who are inept at solving crimes because they were trained poorly and have no relationships. So it is the result of bad policing and some bad training that leads to so many horrific crimes go unsolved. Most murder and sexual assaults are caused by repeat offenders. So if you don't solve a homicide or sexual assault and you will have more murders and sexual assaults.

 I think you are very ignorant. You can't look at historic corruption like for example the NYPD which along with organized crime sold drugs in Black neighborhoods(The French Connection) only to lock up Black people for using drugs. Then lockup Black men who decided if heroin was going to be sold in our neighborhoods we want to control it. This lead directly to the NY Drug Kingpin laws. Think about that, for decades the NYPD and the international organized crime syndicates sold drugs, made a fortune, nobody really went to jail, but the minute Black Men started wanting to control what was being pushed into their community, the government and police co-ordinated to put Black men away for a huge number of years. So what were the police doing? Were they keeping the community safe?

 If you don't understand the history of policing in Black America you will continue writing mindless drivel like you are. The police and what they've been tasked to do are the problem and it's time for new solutions and a new system of law enforcement. And just the idea of that has you spazzing out and you have to take a deep breath and reflect on why that is and ask yourself what you really know.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The user OP doesn't know what Chicago's was like under Daley it was high crime, we elected Lightfoot because Rahm Emanuel couldnt handle crime in the city it goes both ways just like BLM we can't get rid of crime because too many assault weapon on the street

The reason why under Daley there was more crime we had less gun control before 911 Columbine we ignored gun safety laws

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

In most all law enforcement detectives were/are police officers. Many of the same terrible police who have been used as foot soldiers to brutalize the Black community with crap like the war on drugs and mass incarceration, who have no trust with the community, then become detectives who are inept at solving crimes because they were trained poorly and have no relationships. So it is the result of bad policing and some bad training that leads to so many horrific crimes go unsolved. Most murder and sexual assaults are caused by repeat offenders. So if you don't solve a homicide or sexual assault and you will have more murders and sexual assaults.

 I think you are very ignorant. You can't look at historic corruption like for example the NYPD which along with organized crime sold drugs in Black neighborhoods(The French Connection) only to lock up Black people for using drugs. Then lockup Black men who decided if heroin was going to be sold in our neighborhoods we want to control it. This lead directly to the NY Drug Kingpin laws. Think about that, for decades the NYPD and the international organized crime syndicates sold drugs, made a fortune, nobody really went to jail, but the minute Black Men started wanting to control what was being pushed into their community, the government and police co-ordinated to put Black men away for a huge number of years. So what were the police doing? Were they keeping the community safe?

 If you don't understand the history of policing in Black America you will continue writing mindless drivel like you are. The police and what they've been tasked to do are the problem and it's time for new solutions and a new system of law enforcement. And just the idea of that has you spazzing out and you have to take a deep breath and reflect on why that is and ask yourself what you really know.

You're not reading or engaging with anything I'm writing so I'm going to stop responding to you in this thread after this post.

Your entire middle paragraph was information I already knew and had nothing to do in any way with anything that I posted. Your last paragraph is a strange attack that isn't even factually correct - I'm not opposed to "new solutions and new system of law enforcement", I'm just opposed to whatever vague nonsense you're talking about because it's clearly an academic fantasy that, even if successful on a longer time horizon, would likely produce disastrous and violent near-term consequences.

You lost a lot of my respect in this exchange. Have a nice weekend.

eta: I'm very glad we're past the height of the post-Floyd response where liberals and progressives thought that arguing that history or some aspect of the status quo is racist (or even worse, asserting that interlocutors are racist) was a sufficient argument in favor of some alternative policy instead of actually doing the work to demonstrate that alternative policies would be more effective. But some remnants of that mindset and argumentative style still remain in some pockets, evidently.

The history and contemporary legacy effects of racism in policing and public policy around public safety is beyond question and something I have never even once, in this discussion or otherwise on this forum, dismissed. Of course there is racism in past and present policing. The question at hand is what to do about the contemporary violence, which is increasing in several places and of which this story is an example, that kills tens of thousands of people in these settings, traumatizes far more people, and contributes to these communities remaining in poverty and chronic disinvestment. Your responses are purposefully vague as to what you actually propose as an alternative but based on your response I really sense that you aren't taking the actual violence and trauma that would happen with or without cops doing their jobs seriously. Please stop gish galloping me with stuff about the French Connection (??)

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Decades upon decades of impunity have resulted in far too many police officers who think their job description involves running a protection racket.

[Mr. Illini]

If what everyone is implying is true, then of course these people are not fit to be cops and should be fired. But this is also exactly what I'm saying is that we have bad cops now, and will have even worse cops in the future if the better ones with options leave for greener pastures. Undersupporting the police is going to result in a bunch of leftover bad cops who do not want to do their job.

Brandon Johnson wants to plant seeds that will stop the tendency toward crime by giving opportunities to youth early on. That is all fine and good. But that does not fix things overnight. In the meantime, the people who are already out in the streets committing crime are not going to stop. Even if down the road Chicago benefits from his initiatives down the road, what are we going to do about the problems that are facing us now?

Exactly ... it is PATHETICALLY too woke to try to "grandfather in" crime, lmao.  If you want to try to address underlying community issues in an attempt to decrease future crime, great!  But there is no excuse for current crime and nothing to do about it other than hold the perpetrators accountable so that innocent people are not affected.  Period, period, period!

You know he’s not the mayor yet right

What does that have to do with anything I said?  His rhetoric in the face of people damaging private property for literally no reason and scaring law-abiding citizens living in those areas is to downplay the criminality of it because of the underlying reasons for why these kids might be frustrated with society, as if those frustrations in ANY way excuse crime happening right now.

You must not have seen his comments specifically on the activity downtown last weekend where he said it was inexcusable, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

If you’re saying it’s wrong to talk about root causes at all amid violence then I guess that’s a take. I disagree with you.

[Badger]

In most all law enforcement detectives were/are police officers. Many of the same terrible police who have been used as foot soldiers to brutalize the Black community with crap like the war on drugs and mass incarceration, who have no trust with the community, then become detectives who are inept at solving crimes because they were trained poorly and have no relationships. So it is the result of bad policing and some bad training that leads to so many horrific crimes go unsolved. Most murder and sexual assaults are caused by repeat offenders. So if you don't solve a homicide or sexual assault and you will have more murders and sexual assaults.

 I think you are very ignorant. You can't look at historic corruption like for example the NYPD which along with organized crime sold drugs in Black neighborhoods(The French Connection) only to lock up Black people for using drugs. Then lockup Black men who decided if heroin was going to be sold in our neighborhoods we want to control it. This lead directly to the NY Drug Kingpin laws. Think about that, for decades the NYPD and the international organized crime syndicates sold drugs, made a fortune, nobody really went to jail, but the minute Black Men started wanting to control what was being pushed into their community, the government and police co-ordinated to put Black men away for a huge number of years. So what were the police doing? Were they keeping the community safe?

 If you don't understand the history of policing in Black America you will continue writing mindless drivel like you are. The police and what they've been tasked to do are the problem and it's time for new solutions and a new system of law enforcement. And just the idea of that has you spazzing out and you have to take a deep breath and reflect on why that is and ask yourself what you really know.

You're not reading or engaging with anything I'm writing so I'm going to stop responding to you in this thread after this post.

Your entire middle paragraph was information I already knew and had nothing to do in any way with anything that I posted. Your last paragraph is a strange attack that isn't even factually correct - I'm not opposed to "new solutions and new system of law enforcement", I'm just opposed to whatever vague nonsense you're talking about because it's clearly an academic fantasy that, even if successful on a longer time horizon, would likely produce disastrous and violent near-term consequences.

You lost a lot of my respect in this exchange. Have a nice weekend.

eta: I'm very glad we're past the height of the post-Floyd response where liberals and progressives thought that arguing that history or some aspect of the status quo is racist (or even worse, asserting that interlocutors are racist) was a sufficient argument in favor of some alternative policy instead of actually doing the work to demonstrate that alternative policies would be more effective. But some remnants of that mindset and argumentative style still remain in some pockets, evidently.

The history and contemporary legacy effects of racism in policing and public policy around public safety is beyond question and something I have never even once, in this discussion or otherwise on this forum, dismissed. Of course there is racism in past and present policing. The question at hand is what to do about the contemporary violence, which is increasing in several places and of which this story is an example, that kills tens of thousands of people in these settings, traumatizes far more people, and contributes to these communities remaining in poverty and chronic disinvestment. Your responses are purposefully vague as to what you actually propose as an alternative but based on your response I really sense that you aren't taking the actual violence and trauma that would happen with or without cops doing their jobs seriously. Please stop gish galloping me with stuff about the French Connection (??)

Fwiw, you two really shouldn't be arguing as you are both correct. CPD is a historically Mega corrupt institution and remains so to this day, and more community policing type measures would help immensely. Simultaneously, garbage like a mass mob of little sh**t thugs taking over the loop and beating up passerby's just because they can is completely out and needs to be cracked down on hugely.

[GP270watch]

In most all law enforcement detectives were/are police officers. Many of the same terrible police who have been used as foot soldiers to brutalize the Black community with crap like the war on drugs and mass incarceration, who have no trust with the community, then become detectives who are inept at solving crimes because they were trained poorly and have no relationships. So it is the result of bad policing and some bad training that leads to so many horrific crimes go unsolved. Most murder and sexual assaults are caused by repeat offenders. So if you don't solve a homicide or sexual assault and you will have more murders and sexual assaults.

 I think you are very ignorant. You can't look at historic corruption like for example the NYPD which along with organized crime sold drugs in Black neighborhoods(The French Connection) only to lock up Black people for using drugs. Then lockup Black men who decided if heroin was going to be sold in our neighborhoods we want to control it. This lead directly to the NY Drug Kingpin laws. Think about that, for decades the NYPD and the international organized crime syndicates sold drugs, made a fortune, nobody really went to jail, but the minute Black Men started wanting to control what was being pushed into their community, the government and police co-ordinated to put Black men away for a huge number of years. So what were the police doing? Were they keeping the community safe?

 If you don't understand the history of policing in Black America you will continue writing mindless drivel like you are. The police and what they've been tasked to do are the problem and it's time for new solutions and a new system of law enforcement. And just the idea of that has you spazzing out and you have to take a deep breath and reflect on why that is and ask yourself what you really know.

You're not reading or engaging with anything I'm writing so I'm going to stop responding to you in this thread after this post.

Your entire middle paragraph was information I already knew and had nothing to do in any way with anything that I posted. Your last paragraph is a strange attack that isn't even factually correct - I'm not opposed to "new solutions and new system of law enforcement", I'm just opposed to whatever vague nonsense you're talking about because it's clearly an academic fantasy that, even if successful on a longer time horizon, would likely produce disastrous and violent near-term consequences.

You lost a lot of my respect in this exchange. Have a nice weekend.

eta: I'm very glad we're past the height of the post-Floyd response where liberals and progressives thought that arguing that history or some aspect of the status quo is racist (or even worse, asserting that interlocutors are racist) was a sufficient argument in favor of some alternative policy instead of actually doing the work to demonstrate that alternative policies would be more effective. But some remnants of that mindset and argumentative style still remain in some pockets, evidently.

The history and contemporary legacy effects of racism in policing and public policy around public safety is beyond question and something I have never even once, in this discussion or otherwise on this forum, dismissed. Of course there is racism in past and present policing. The question at hand is what to do about the contemporary violence, which is increasing in several places and of which this story is an example, that kills tens of thousands of people in these settings, traumatizes far more people, and contributes to these communities remaining in poverty and chronic disinvestment. Your responses are purposefully vague as to what you actually propose as an alternative but based on your response I really sense that you aren't taking the actual violence and trauma that would happen with or without cops doing their jobs seriously. Please stop gish galloping me with stuff about the French Connection (??)

Fwiw, you two really shouldn't be arguing as you are both correct. CPD is a historically Mega corrupt institution and remains so to this day, and more community policing type measures would help immensely.

 So why would we continue to fund a historically corrupt institution? Why instead would we not build a new one, that is centered on community based solutions, and hold outsiders who have actively harmed that same community accountable.

 Anytime people talk about gun violence in Chicago I ask a very simple question: Where are the guns coming from?

We have tough laws and tough words for the people of Chicago. But nothing at all for the people who flood Chicago with guns and drugs.

 Remember the genesis of this thread is police refusing to do their job if they could not continue the status quo. A status quo that we have established is the police using brutality on the community and then having policy makers and higher level officials not only excusing that brutality but supporting it. The Police are refusing to do their jobs because the thought of reform is that threatening to the way they've been accustomed and trained to do things. 

[It’s so Joever]

The Chicago policy should be dissolved and replaced if true.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Police departments in the US need a round of heavy reconstruction.

Brutal, ruthless, thorough, efficient reconstruction from the ground up.

"Brutal" and "Ruthless" describes perfectly the members of organized criminal gangs that are the chief beneficiaries of "Defund the Police".

I'm not confused about what the Chicago PD has been about over time, but Chicago has become a place where there are no safe neighborhoods.  The ONLY thing that enables Chicagoans from enjoying any reasonable level of safety is the Chicago PD.  And, yes, there is no excuse for NOT enforcing the law, especially if there were people being violently attacked.  To drive by that and take no action is not defensible.  But Chicago PD officers have served for 4 years now under a Mayor and a State's Attorney that (A) sympathize with those committing crimes, (B) dismiss charges against criminals that are valid and should not be dismissed, (C) see the criminals released after arrest under bail reform laws, and (D) entertain ways to put the onus of the problems where a criminal is arrested against his will on the officer to the point where officers have every reason to believe that their Government Leaders would prefer to prosecute them.  While I don't think it's acceptable behavior, I am certain that Chicago PD officers would be breaking up bloody fights and assaults and defending people with one eye to what sort of discipline they would receive (no matter how unjust the discipline) from a government that hates them.

Brandon Johnson does not want people to "demonize" young black males committing crimies in Chicago because they haven't had the opportunities in life others have had.  Aside from the fact that these young, mostly black (but not all) males (a disproportionate number of them being criminal gang members) are reeking havoc and terror on Chicago's citizens, there's the fact that many of the victima of these remorseless criminals are people who also have not had the same opportunities.  Does unequal opportunity justify robbery and murder?  And what lost opportunities are entirely the result of the decisions of these young men to engage in felonious criminality?

The "brutality" problem in Chicago is the behavior of it's criminals in the streets, many of which are gang members.   Period.  Chicago's police officers need the support of it's political leaders because they are the ONLY solution to the violence in the present moment.  The criminals need to know that the law will be enforced.  And let's be real:  Brandon Johnson and Kim Foxx are people whose lives and actions sent the exact opposite message in a time of legitimate public safety emergency in the whole of the City of Chicago.

[DaleCooper]

Cops who refuse to do their jobs and deliberately ignore citizens in need should be thrown into prison. In a case as severe as the Uvalde cops that let all those kids get shot, I'd support a death sentence.

I don't care how tough the job is or how mean the local officials are, if you're a cop and you're unwilling to protect and serve, then the least you can do is stop mooching off the taxpayers you're refusing to defend. Absolutely disgusting, and shame on anybody who defends such dereliction of duty.

[Yoda]

Any cop who refuses to do his job because he's throwing a bitchfit over the results on an election should be fired and blackballed from working as a cop ever again. Just completely unfit for duty

Not going far enough. They should be jailed and fined. They should also have to pay back their wages and the $$ the city has payed towards their healthcare and pension from the point they decided to stop doing their jobs.

[Yoda]

Imagine a liberal cop having done this when, say, Bloomberg was elected. You can't, b/c democrats just do their jobs. Republicans always have to inject their politics into other people's lives.

[oldtimer]

Imagine a liberal cop having done this when, say, Bloomberg was elected. You can't, b/c democrats just do their jobs. Republicans always have to inject their politics into other people's lives.

It did happen in New York under Mayor Linsday, probably the worst mayor New York ever had.