SR 114-25: Proxy Vote Resolution (Amendment Vote)
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  SR 114-25: Proxy Vote Resolution (Amendment Vote)
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Author Topic: SR 114-25: Proxy Vote Resolution (Amendment Vote)  (Read 2229 times)
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« on: April 11, 2023, 08:01:24 PM »
« edited: April 27, 2023, 06:38:27 PM by I'm a Kennedy! I'm not accustomed to tragedy »

Quote
Quote
A RESOLUTION
To allow proxy voting in the Senate under limited circumstances

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled;

Quote
Section 1. Title

This legislation may be cited as the Proxy Vote Resolution.

Section 2. Proxy voting

Section 6 of the Official Senate Procedures and Rules for Operation (OSPR) is amended;

Quote
1.) Final Votes and veto overrides votes shall last for a maximum of 4 days (i.e. 96 hours). A final vote may be ended earlier than 96 hours:

a. If the vote has a majority to pass or fail, then the Presiding officer may call 24 hours for Senators to vote or change their votes.

b. If all Senators have voted and the result is unanimous for or against, then the Presiding Officer may end the vote immediately.

2.) If a bill has been vetoed, a Senator has 96 hours to motion for a veto override. A two-thirds majority of the members of the Senate is needed in order to override a veto.

3.) If a redraft is presented, the original sponsor shall have 96 hours after it is offered to accept the redraft or reject it and request an override. If the redraft is rejected by the Senate, the sponsor may then either motion to resume debate on the bill or withdraw the bill from the floor. If the original sponsor shall have left the chamber, the presiding officer shall allow for someone to assume sponsorship as with a normal bill, with the 96 hours commencing after it is completed.

4.) Veto Override and Redraft proceedings shall not be conducted in a slot and thus not subjected to any limits on the amount of legislation on the floor, but shall be conducted in their original threads.

5.) Proxy Votes shall be allowed under circumstances in which a senator has posted a Leave of Absence or similar message of absence and their support for an amendment or bill is implied.
Sponsor: Scott

The gentleman from Wyoming is recognized.
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2023, 08:03:51 PM »

I'm gonna kill myself if every single vote is derailed by arguments about proxy voting, so let's just nip this issue in the bud now and settle the question as to whether this is something we want to allow.
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West_Midlander
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2023, 08:53:15 PM »
« Edited: April 11, 2023, 09:01:27 PM by West_Midlander »

Quote
A RESOLUTION
To allow proxy voting in the Senate under limited circumstances

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled;

Quote
Section 1. Title

This legislation may be cited as the Proxy Vote Resolution.

Section 2. Proxy voting

Section 6 of the Official Senate Procedures and Rules for Operation (OSPR) is amended;

Quote
1.) Final Votes and veto overrides votes shall last for a maximum of 4 days (i.e. 96 hours). A final vote may be ended earlier than 96 hours:

a. If the vote has a majority to pass or fail, then the Presiding officer may call 24 hours for Senators to vote or change their votes.

b. If all Senators have voted and the result is unanimous for or against, then the Presiding Officer may end the vote immediately.

2.) If a bill has been vetoed, a Senator has 96 hours to motion for a veto override. A two-thirds majority of the members of the Senate is needed in order to override a veto.

3.) If a redraft is presented, the original sponsor shall have 96 hours after it is offered to accept the redraft or reject it and request an override. If the redraft is rejected by the Senate, the sponsor may then either motion to resume debate on the bill or withdraw the bill from the floor. If the original sponsor shall have left the chamber, the presiding officer shall allow for someone to assume sponsorship as with a normal bill, with the 96 hours commencing after it is completed.

4.) Veto Override and Redraft proceedings shall not be conducted in a slot and thus not subjected to any limits on the amount of legislation on the floor, but shall be conducted in their original threads.

5.) Proxy Votes shall be allowed under circumstances in which a senator has posted a Leave of Absence or similar message of absence and their support for an amendment or bill is impliedso long as the Senator designated to vote as a proxy makes a strong effort in good faith to accurately represent the position of the Senator who is absent under special circumstances such as those necessitating a Leave of Absence. The proxy-voting Senator shall also honor any clear statement or implication of the affected Senator's wish to vote a certain way otherwise the proxy vote shall be invalid.

I propose this amendment. I believe this is a bit less stringent because limiting the proxy voting to specifically bills which a Senator has had a chance to post a public position on is a bit too limiting for a LOA which may come upon Senators suddenly, preventing them from being able to post a public stance on most or all legislation before the Senate.

I believe the voters who elected a Senator should be represented if that senator has extraordinary circumstances requiring a LOA and if s/he chooses to designate a Senator to vote as a proxy in his/her absence. Without this amendment, the language of the proposed change to the Senate rules will likely prevent proxy voting in 80%-90% of cases, severely undermining the representation of constituents who elected a Senator who would likely show to vote often or in every case (typically) if not for unforeseen personal circumstances.
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2023, 09:07:50 PM »

Article 10-2 gives power to the presiding officer, until and unless an objection is raised, to do as they please:

2.) The presiding officer may unilaterally suspend any section of these rules at any time, unless another Senator objects. If a Senator objects, suspending the rules shall require the consent of two-thirds of sitting Senators.

Given Yankee's long career in the game and the rather involuntary circumstances of his LOA and retirement, I would hope that we could look beyond petty details of procedure in this specific case and allow him to vote by any means necessary. Just because something is prohibited or not explicitly permitted by the Senate rules does not mean you have to object. I would also note that both of the cases in which an objection has been raised are cases in which the vote was decisive against Senator Pyro's view and I do wonder if the objections would still have been raised if they were instead decisive votes in favor of Senator Pyro's view.

Admittedly the recognition of proxy votes in the past has been mixed. While PPTs have recognized them before, particularly in the cases of members voting before a question is formally opened, PPT Spark famously refused to recognize an attempt by S019 to designate a proxy. The Senate rules have never spoken on the matter either way during my time in the game. The only mention of proxy votes is actually in the Lincoln SOAP, which explicitly bans them.

I have some concerns about allowing proxy votes unilaterally, particularly with regard to how the proxy should vote if the usual senator's position is ambiguous or unknown. It is worth noting that when proxy voting was a thing in the RL US House, the proxy was required to receive some form of communication from the usual representative before voting, and vote exactly as told. If no communication was received, the proxy vote was unable to be cast.

That being said, given Yankee's circumstances and acclaimed tenure in the game, I am in favor of allowing him to vote by proxy even if no one else ever is. If that is best achieved by temporarily allowing it for all and then rescinding it once no longer needed, I am supportive of that.
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2023, 09:10:46 PM »

24 hours to object to the amendment.

I guess it's Reactionary's call as to how to handle the current practice.
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2023, 09:57:34 PM »

I was also under the impression that it was the PPT's sole discretion to recognize proxy votes already.
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2023, 10:29:06 AM »

Quote
A RESOLUTION
To allow proxy voting in the Senate under limited circumstances

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled;

Quote
Section 1. Title

This legislation may be cited as the Proxy Vote Resolution.

Section 2. Proxy voting

Section 6 of the Official Senate Procedures and Rules for Operation (OSPR) is amended;

Quote
1.) Final Votes and veto overrides votes shall last for a maximum of 4 days (i.e. 96 hours). A final vote may be ended earlier than 96 hours:

a. If the vote has a majority to pass or fail, then the Presiding officer may call 24 hours for Senators to vote or change their votes.

b. If all Senators have voted and the result is unanimous for or against, then the Presiding Officer may end the vote immediately.

2.) If a bill has been vetoed, a Senator has 96 hours to motion for a veto override. A two-thirds majority of the members of the Senate is needed in order to override a veto.

3.) If a redraft is presented, the original sponsor shall have 96 hours after it is offered to accept the redraft or reject it and request an override. If the redraft is rejected by the Senate, the sponsor may then either motion to resume debate on the bill or withdraw the bill from the floor. If the original sponsor shall have left the chamber, the presiding officer shall allow for someone to assume sponsorship as with a normal bill, with the 96 hours commencing after it is completed.

4.) Veto Override and Redraft proceedings shall not be conducted in a slot and thus not subjected to any limits on the amount of legislation on the floor, but shall be conducted in their original threads.

5.) Proxy Votes shall be allowed under circumstances in which a senator has posted a Leave of Absence or similar message of absence and their support for an amendment or bill is impliedso long as the Senator designated to vote as a proxy makes a strong effort in good faith to accurately represent the position of the Senator who is absent under special circumstances such as those necessitating a Leave of Absence. The proxy-voting Senator shall also honor any clear statement or implication of the affected Senator's wish to vote a certain way otherwise the proxy vote shall be invalid.

I propose this amendment. I believe this is a bit less stringent because limiting the proxy voting to specifically bills which a Senator has had a chance to post a public position on is a bit too limiting for a LOA which may come upon Senators suddenly, preventing them from being able to post a public stance on most or all legislation before the Senate.

I believe the voters who elected a Senator should be represented if that senator has extraordinary circumstances requiring a LOA and if s/he chooses to designate a Senator to vote as a proxy in his/her absence. Without this amendment, the language of the proposed change to the Senate rules will likely prevent proxy voting in 80%-90% of cases, severely undermining the representation of constituents who elected a Senator who would likely show to vote often or in every case (typically) if not for unforeseen personal circumstances.

Object. Although I agree all voters must be represented, it is impossible to know any one person's stance on all issues. If we are making an exception to the "one senator, one vote" rule, we need to be extremely specific as to what can fly. This should absolutely be limited to issues in which the senator in question has made their position unequivocally clear and public. In fact, the proxy voter should be required to post a reference to the past position. Otherwise, the proxy voter is given the power of two voters which is as unfair as it gets.
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2023, 10:34:57 AM »

Article 10-2 gives power to the presiding officer, until and unless an objection is raised, to do as they please:

2.) The presiding officer may unilaterally suspend any section of these rules at any time, unless another Senator objects. If a Senator objects, suspending the rules shall require the consent of two-thirds of sitting Senators.

Given Yankee's long career in the game and the rather involuntary circumstances of his LOA and retirement, I would hope that we could look beyond petty details of procedure in this specific case and allow him to vote by any means necessary. Just because something is prohibited or not explicitly permitted by the Senate rules does not mean you have to object. I would also note that both of the cases in which an objection has been raised are cases in which the vote was decisive against Senator Pyro's view and I do wonder if the objections would still have been raised if they were instead decisive votes in favor of Senator Pyro's view.

Admittedly the recognition of proxy votes in the past has been mixed. While PPTs have recognized them before, particularly in the cases of members voting before a question is formally opened, PPT Spark famously refused to recognize an attempt by S019 to designate a proxy. The Senate rules have never spoken on the matter either way during my time in the game. The only mention of proxy votes is actually in the Lincoln SOAP, which explicitly bans them.

I have some concerns about allowing proxy votes unilaterally, particularly with regard to how the proxy should vote if the usual senator's position is ambiguous or unknown. It is worth noting that when proxy voting was a thing in the RL US House, the proxy was required to receive some form of communication from the usual representative before voting, and vote exactly as told. If no communication was received, the proxy vote was unable to be cast.

That being said, given Yankee's circumstances and acclaimed tenure in the game, I am in favor of allowing him to vote by proxy even if no one else ever is. If that is best achieved by temporarily allowing it for all and then rescinding it once no longer needed, I am supportive of that.

I have a lot of respect for Senator Yankee for his experience in the game. That does not mean, however, that I am willing to overlook the "petty" rules of the Senate. It doesn't matter if you've served here for 10 years, or 10 days. It is wrong to let anyone slide by the rules without, at least, calling attention to it. Allowing something as significant as a proxy vote is an important matter, and one that should not be taken lightly. I have implied that my objection applies to all of the proxy votes, with the initial posts having taken place in the first threads I noticed with vote tallies.
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West_Midlander
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2023, 11:01:45 AM »

Is there some outside example of proxy voting that you are pointing to which results in a Senator voting "twice" because in the only relevant example at this time, I have voted against my own position twice as a proxy thus far?
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2023, 11:03:40 AM »

A vote on the West Midlander Amendment is now open. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2023, 11:04:11 AM »

Aye
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2023, 11:05:35 AM »


Thank you for this vote, Senator.

I vote Aye.
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2023, 11:12:41 AM »

I have implied that my objection applies to all of the proxy votes, with the initial posts having taken place in the first threads I noticed with vote tallies.

Senator Pyro, I would not think that you can make a blanket statement against all proxy votes. Historically, I believe, motions have to be made one at a time to be recognized, in addition to following the time rules of the Senate, e.g., objections to an amendment being within 24 hours after the PPT or Deputy has opened the floor for objections. What you are supporting is akin to me saying, "I hereby object to all future Labor-sponsored bills which have a final vote motion presented" and expecting it to be honored.
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2023, 11:27:33 AM »

Aye
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2023, 12:03:18 PM »

Article 10-2 gives power to the presiding officer, until and unless an objection is raised, to do as they please:

2.) The presiding officer may unilaterally suspend any section of these rules at any time, unless another Senator objects. If a Senator objects, suspending the rules shall require the consent of two-thirds of sitting Senators.

Given Yankee's long career in the game and the rather involuntary circumstances of his LOA and retirement, I would hope that we could look beyond petty details of procedure in this specific case and allow him to vote by any means necessary. Just because something is prohibited or not explicitly permitted by the Senate rules does not mean you have to object. I would also note that both of the cases in which an objection has been raised are cases in which the vote was decisive against Senator Pyro's view and I do wonder if the objections would still have been raised if they were instead decisive votes in favor of Senator Pyro's view.

Admittedly the recognition of proxy votes in the past has been mixed. While PPTs have recognized them before, particularly in the cases of members voting before a question is formally opened, PPT Spark famously refused to recognize an attempt by S019 to designate a proxy. The Senate rules have never spoken on the matter either way during my time in the game. The only mention of proxy votes is actually in the Lincoln SOAP, which explicitly bans them.

I have some concerns about allowing proxy votes unilaterally, particularly with regard to how the proxy should vote if the usual senator's position is ambiguous or unknown. It is worth noting that when proxy voting was a thing in the RL US House, the proxy was required to receive some form of communication from the usual representative before voting, and vote exactly as told. If no communication was received, the proxy vote was unable to be cast.

That being said, given Yankee's circumstances and acclaimed tenure in the game, I am in favor of allowing him to vote by proxy even if no one else ever is. If that is best achieved by temporarily allowing it for all and then rescinding it once no longer needed, I am supportive of that.

I have a lot of respect for Senator Yankee for his experience in the game. That does not mean, however, that I am willing to overlook the "petty" rules of the Senate. It doesn't matter if you've served here for 10 years, or 10 days. It is wrong to let anyone slide by the rules without, at least, calling attention to it. Allowing something as significant as a proxy vote is an important matter, and one that should not be taken lightly. I have implied that my objection applies to all of the proxy votes, with the initial posts having taken place in the first threads I noticed with vote tallies.

Before this thread was posted, West_Midlander cast a total of 13 proxy votes for Yankee. Of the 13, you only objected to 2 - the 2 that were decisive against your position. As you have taken no action on the other 11's threads, those proxy votes will go forward under 10-2. Objections must be individually raised. There has never been a legislative body in this game that has recognized statements of objection made in a matter other than individually, one at a time, separately for each thread or vote.

Thus, we are left to assume that your objections would not have occurred at all had things not been decisive against your view. Indeed, it seems that they are engineered to exploit a senator's medical crisis for your own purposes. I expect to see such things from real life politicians, but in a game where none of this ultimately matters, I am disappointed we cannot stand above such tactics.

While you may think you're taking some principled stand, what you're actually doing is dishonoring the very memory and legacy of Senator Yankee, an astounding feat given that he hasn't even actually left office yet. If you wanted to address this in a way that didn't do that but removed your uneasiness regarding simply not worrying about petty matters of procedure in this extraordinary case, you could have not objected to the current procedure but instead introduced this rule change yourself to retroactively recognize it properly. Even now, you could support this rule change wholeheartedly, rather than making objections and speeches against it. I would even be more respectful of your position if you had simply objected to a higher concentration of the proxy votes that were cast.

But alas, you are doing none of that. Thank you for making it very easy to decide who I give dead last preference in next weekend's elections.
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2023, 12:08:13 PM »

Article 10-2 gives power to the presiding officer, until and unless an objection is raised, to do as they please:

2.) The presiding officer may unilaterally suspend any section of these rules at any time, unless another Senator objects. If a Senator objects, suspending the rules shall require the consent of two-thirds of sitting Senators.

Given Yankee's long career in the game and the rather involuntary circumstances of his LOA and retirement, I would hope that we could look beyond petty details of procedure in this specific case and allow him to vote by any means necessary. Just because something is prohibited or not explicitly permitted by the Senate rules does not mean you have to object. I would also note that both of the cases in which an objection has been raised are cases in which the vote was decisive against Senator Pyro's view and I do wonder if the objections would still have been raised if they were instead decisive votes in favor of Senator Pyro's view.

Admittedly the recognition of proxy votes in the past has been mixed. While PPTs have recognized them before, particularly in the cases of members voting before a question is formally opened, PPT Spark famously refused to recognize an attempt by S019 to designate a proxy. The Senate rules have never spoken on the matter either way during my time in the game. The only mention of proxy votes is actually in the Lincoln SOAP, which explicitly bans them.

I have some concerns about allowing proxy votes unilaterally, particularly with regard to how the proxy should vote if the usual senator's position is ambiguous or unknown. It is worth noting that when proxy voting was a thing in the RL US House, the proxy was required to receive some form of communication from the usual representative before voting, and vote exactly as told. If no communication was received, the proxy vote was unable to be cast.

That being said, given Yankee's circumstances and acclaimed tenure in the game, I am in favor of allowing him to vote by proxy even if no one else ever is. If that is best achieved by temporarily allowing it for all and then rescinding it once no longer needed, I am supportive of that.

I have a lot of respect for Senator Yankee for his experience in the game. That does not mean, however, that I am willing to overlook the "petty" rules of the Senate. It doesn't matter if you've served here for 10 years, or 10 days. It is wrong to let anyone slide by the rules without, at least, calling attention to it. Allowing something as significant as a proxy vote is an important matter, and one that should not be taken lightly. I have implied that my objection applies to all of the proxy votes, with the initial posts having taken place in the first threads I noticed with vote tallies.

Before this thread was posted, West_Midlander cast a total of 13 proxy votes for Yankee. Of the 13, you only objected to 2 - the 2 that were decisive against your position. As you have taken no action on the other 11's threads, those proxy votes will go forward under 10-2. Objections must be individually raised. There has never been a legislative body in this game that has recognized statements of objection made in a matter other than individually, one at a time, separately for each thread or vote.

Thus, we are left to assume that your objections would not have occurred at all had things not been decisive against your view. Indeed, it seems that they are engineered to exploit a senator's medical crisis for your own purposes. I expect to see such things from real life politicians, but in a game where none of this ultimately matters, I am disappointed we cannot stand above such tactics.

While you may think you're taking some principled stand, what you're actually doing is dishonoring the very memory and legacy of Senator Yankee, an astounding feat given that he hasn't even actually left office yet. If you wanted to address this in a way that didn't do that but removed your uneasiness regarding simply not worrying about petty matters of procedure in this extraordinary case, you could have not objected to the current procedure but instead introduced this rule change yourself to retroactively recognize it properly. Even now, you could support this rule change wholeheartedly, rather than making objections and speeches against it. I would even more respectful of your position if you had simply objected to a higher concentration of the proxy votes that were cast.

But alas, you are doing none of that. Thank you for making it very easy to decide who I give dead last preference in next weekend's elections.

How have you not picked up on this he knows literally nothing about procedure and cares only for what others decide for him in his own party.

If the term "proxy voting" is somehow above this guy's head, he is unfit for office.

Unfortunately, I suspect this issue runs far deeper than simply following labor leadership demands. Indeed, this whole operation may be something Pyro came up with on his own.
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2023, 12:42:21 PM »
« Edited: April 12, 2023, 12:45:35 PM by West_Midlander »

Unfortunately, I suspect this issue runs far deeper than simply following labor leadership demands. Indeed, this whole operation may be something Pyro came up with on his own.

The rest of the Labor slate is much less active so it's a strong possibility, but we can't say for sure.
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2023, 12:42:50 PM »

I have implied that my objection applies to all of the proxy votes, with the initial posts having taken place in the first threads I noticed with vote tallies.

Senator Pyro, I would not think that you can make a blanket statement against all proxy votes. Historically, I believe, motions have to be made one at a time to be recognized, in addition to following the time rules of the Senate, e.g., objections to an amendment being within 24 hours after the PPT or Deputy has opened the floor for objections. What you are supporting is akin to me saying, "I hereby object to all future Labor-sponsored bills which have a final vote motion presented" and expecting it to be honored.

Fine, if you want me to post my objection in every thread, you got it.
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2023, 12:46:26 PM »

I have implied that my objection applies to all of the proxy votes, with the initial posts having taken place in the first threads I noticed with vote tallies.

Senator Pyro, I would not think that you can make a blanket statement against all proxy votes. Historically, I believe, motions have to be made one at a time to be recognized, in addition to following the time rules of the Senate, e.g., objections to an amendment being within 24 hours after the PPT or Deputy has opened the floor for objections. What you are supporting is akin to me saying, "I hereby object to all future Labor-sponsored bills which have a final vote motion presented" and expecting it to be honored.

Fine, if you want me to post my objection in every thread, you got it.

At this point, it's doubtful that this position is being taken up out of sincere motivations instead of public pressure alone, since you have received that before changing course.
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2023, 12:57:43 PM »

Aye
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2023, 12:58:31 PM »

Article 10-2 gives power to the presiding officer, until and unless an objection is raised, to do as they please:

2.) The presiding officer may unilaterally suspend any section of these rules at any time, unless another Senator objects. If a Senator objects, suspending the rules shall require the consent of two-thirds of sitting Senators.

Given Yankee's long career in the game and the rather involuntary circumstances of his LOA and retirement, I would hope that we could look beyond petty details of procedure in this specific case and allow him to vote by any means necessary. Just because something is prohibited or not explicitly permitted by the Senate rules does not mean you have to object. I would also note that both of the cases in which an objection has been raised are cases in which the vote was decisive against Senator Pyro's view and I do wonder if the objections would still have been raised if they were instead decisive votes in favor of Senator Pyro's view.

Admittedly the recognition of proxy votes in the past has been mixed. While PPTs have recognized them before, particularly in the cases of members voting before a question is formally opened, PPT Spark famously refused to recognize an attempt by S019 to designate a proxy. The Senate rules have never spoken on the matter either way during my time in the game. The only mention of proxy votes is actually in the Lincoln SOAP, which explicitly bans them.

I have some concerns about allowing proxy votes unilaterally, particularly with regard to how the proxy should vote if the usual senator's position is ambiguous or unknown. It is worth noting that when proxy voting was a thing in the RL US House, the proxy was required to receive some form of communication from the usual representative before voting, and vote exactly as told. If no communication was received, the proxy vote was unable to be cast.

That being said, given Yankee's circumstances and acclaimed tenure in the game, I am in favor of allowing him to vote by proxy even if no one else ever is. If that is best achieved by temporarily allowing it for all and then rescinding it once no longer needed, I am supportive of that.

I have a lot of respect for Senator Yankee for his experience in the game. That does not mean, however, that I am willing to overlook the "petty" rules of the Senate. It doesn't matter if you've served here for 10 years, or 10 days. It is wrong to let anyone slide by the rules without, at least, calling attention to it. Allowing something as significant as a proxy vote is an important matter, and one that should not be taken lightly. I have implied that my objection applies to all of the proxy votes, with the initial posts having taken place in the first threads I noticed with vote tallies.

Before this thread was posted, West_Midlander cast a total of 13 proxy votes for Yankee. Of the 13, you only objected to 2 - the 2 that were decisive against your position. As you have taken no action on the other 11's threads, those proxy votes will go forward under 10-2. Objections must be individually raised. There has never been a legislative body in this game that has recognized statements of objection made in a matter other than individually, one at a time, separately for each thread or vote.

Fair enough. I've posted objections to all active proxy votes. You're right, I should have done this first.

Thus, we are left to assume that your objections would not have occurred at all had things not been decisive against your view. Indeed, it seems that they are engineered to exploit a senator's medical crisis for your own purposes. I expect to see such things from real life politicians, but in a game where none of this ultimately matters, I am disappointed we cannot stand above such tactics.

While you may think you're taking some principled stand, what you're actually doing is dishonoring the very memory and legacy of Senator Yankee, an astounding feat given that he hasn't even actually left office yet. If you wanted to address this in a way that didn't do that but removed your uneasiness regarding simply not worrying about petty matters of procedure in this extraordinary case, you could have not objected to the current procedure but instead introduced this rule change yourself to retroactively recognize it properly. Even now, you could support this rule change wholeheartedly, rather than making objections and speeches against it. I would even be more respectful of your position if you had simply objected to a higher concentration of the proxy votes that were cast.

Again, let me reiterate that I hold a huge degree of respect for Senator Yankee. He has served in Atlasia for a long time, and has ensured that we've maintained a healthy and active government. I wish him an easy recovery and hope that he feels up to returning to government in due time. But, we cannot function as a legislative body if we toss out the rules when ever they are inconvenient. I do not support allowing proxies with no strings attached. We must first discuss and craft a permanent rule change to address this in a fair and democratic fashion. I absolutely do support instituting this idea if it is done correctly, and prevents the proxy voter from baselessly assuming the position of the unavailable senator. Nothing I have proposed or stated is controversial. Your outrage is without merit.
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West_Midlander
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2023, 01:02:03 PM »

Senator, your support for a conservative enforcement of the rules is undermined by your breaking of your own rules about motioning to table bills when there's no sponsor statement and waiting x amount of time (~ 4 days, I think you said) before motioning for a final vote.
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PPT Spiral
Spiral
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2023, 01:44:44 PM »

My approach on this matter is simple: Senator Yankee personally delegated the right for proxy representation to Senator West_Midlander. This was not issued by the PPT or by another individual who would be more distant from Yankee's actual thoughts, wishes, and feelings. The move conveys a high level of trust in WM's ability to carry out the appropriate voting intentions in a reasonable manner. Otherwise, a different Senator could have been named. "A reasonable manner" is how we base much of our successfully implemented legislation (and legal interpretations) when it comes to people's abilities and conduct, I'll add.

As someone who has personally worked with Yankee in the Senate on and off for nearly a decade, the currently declared proxy votes are highly accurate with reflecting his overall history and stances. WM has been taking great care to align them with where Yankee would likely and reasonably fall, including adding justifications in his posts beyond what is required of him. Unless that all should suddenly change, I hold strong faith in WM continuing to execute this proxy role. This is what my old friend Yankee would want. Now I hope that the Senate can formalize this procedure so we may be done with it all.
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Sirius_
Ninja0428
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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2023, 02:06:43 PM »

Aye
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Pyro
PyroTheFox
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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2023, 02:33:30 PM »
« Edited: April 12, 2023, 05:58:17 PM by Pyro »

I propose the following amendment.

Quote
A RESOLUTION
To allow proxy voting in the Senate under limited circumstances

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled;

Quote
Section 1. Title

This legislation may be cited as the Proxy Vote Resolution.

Section 2. Proxy voting

Section 6 of the Official Senate Procedures and Rules for Operation (OSPR) is amended;

Quote
1.) Final Votes and veto overrides votes shall last for a maximum of 4 days (i.e. 96 hours). A final vote may be ended earlier than 96 hours:

a. If the vote has a majority to pass or fail, then the Presiding officer may call 24 hours for Senators to vote or change their votes.

b. If all Senators have voted and the result is unanimous for or against, then the Presiding Officer may end the vote immediately.

2.) If a bill has been vetoed, a Senator has 96 hours to motion for a veto override. A two-thirds majority of the members of the Senate is needed in order to override a veto.

3.) If a redraft is presented, the original sponsor shall have 96 hours after it is offered to accept the redraft or reject it and request an override. If the redraft is rejected by the Senate, the sponsor may then either motion to resume debate on the bill or withdraw the bill from the floor. If the original sponsor shall have left the chamber, the presiding officer shall allow for someone to assume sponsorship as with a normal bill, with the 96 hours commencing after it is completed.

4.) Veto Override and Redraft proceedings shall not be conducted in a slot and thus not subjected to any limits on the amount of legislation on the floor, but shall be conducted in their original threads.

5.) Proxy Votes shall be allowed under circumstances in which a senator has posted a Leave of Absence or similar message of absence and specifically designated a sitting senator to cast a proxy vote on their behalf. The designated senator may only cast a proxy vote on behalf of the unavailable senator if either of the following conditions are met per approval by the Presiding Officer. and their support for an amendment or bill is implied.

a. The proxy-voting senator has posted a reference, quote, or previous post as supporting evidence of the unavailable senator's position.
i. Supporting evidence from external websites or applications, including but not limited to Discord, shall not be accepted.

b. The proxy-voting senator has posted written communication received from the unavailable senator stating the latter's position.
i. All written communication must be accompanied with a note granting consent for public sharing.

c. If the conditions of either 5a or 5b are not met, the proxy vote shall not be counted in the final tally.

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