Which state party is worse: AZ Republicans or FL Democrats?

[Cyrusman]

Both of these state run parties could not have done more to piss away and hurt their party in these respective states. As recently as 2016 it would be far to call AZ a Republican state and the federal and state level and FL a lean Dem state at the Federal level, and look where we are today.
Who is worse?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Electorally speaking, FL Dems clearly do worse.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

FL Democrats, just on the basis of AZ Republicans still having some semblance of a statewide bench. Can't even say that much for FL Dems anymore & that's not even touching the infrastructure side of things.

[Ferguson97]

AZ GOP is theoretically held hostage by their insane base. FL Dems failures were due to the sheer incompetence of the people in charge.

[smoltchanov]

Florida, of course. And - by lot...

[Tartarus Sauce]

Florida Dems obviously, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Arizona GOP does their damndest to join them by running themselves into the ground over the next decade. They seem determined to make themselves irrelevant on a statewide level in the very near future with their current trajectory.

[Lambsbread]

AZ GOP ran a bunch of literal insane people the last couple of cycles and still got within striking distance. The FL Dems have absolutely sh*t the bed.

[Spectator]

Arizona is basically VA and CO 12 years delayed. Both Senate seats and the governorship flipped in Colorado and Virginia from 2004-2008 and haven’t looked back since except for brief gubernatorial flirtations in VA. Arizona going from both Senate seats and the governorship being held by one party to flipping to the other in only four years is the fastest collapse of a state party in the post-Obama era.

FL Dems are atrocious, yes, but aside from 2018, I don’t think they could have done anything else to win any statewide races recently.

[TML]

Arizona is basically VA and CO 12 years delayed. Both Senate seats and the governorship flipped in Colorado and Virginia from 2004-2008 and haven’t looked back since except for brief gubernatorial flirtations in VA. Arizona going from both Senate seats and the governorship being held by one party to flipping to the other in only four years is the fastest collapse of a state party in the post-Obama era.

FL Dems are atrocious, yes, but aside from 2018, I don’t think they could have done anything else to win any statewide races recently.

With respect to CO, they did have a Republican Senator from 2015-2021.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Republicans still control the Arizona legislature, so there is no comparison.
For now.

[Cyrusman]

Arizona is basically VA and CO 12 years delayed. Both Senate seats and the governorship flipped in Colorado and Virginia from 2004-2008 and haven’t looked back since except for brief gubernatorial flirtations in VA. Arizona going from both Senate seats and the governorship being held by one party to flipping to the other in only four years is the fastest collapse of a state party in the post-Obama era.

FL Dems are atrocious, yes, but aside from 2018, I don’t think they could have done anything else to win any statewide races recently.

I'd argue CO is WAY more culturally liberal and naturally attracts left leaning people and VA has the D.C Metro area, which is one of the bluest areas of the nation.
There are some demographic changes in AZ since 2010/2012ish, but honestly more if it seems like self wounds.
They nominate awful candidates who are too far right for even AZ republicans and their state party is a complete embarrassment that was led by Kelli Ward. Also, for some reason, their candidates think its smart to bash John McCain.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Nobody is worse than Florida Democrats.

[Vosem]

Arizona Republicans control the state legislature, a majority of the US House delegation (and a PV win there too), multiple statewide positions, and the state Supreme Court. Florida Democrats have...none of this.

AZ GOP ran a bunch of literal insane people the last couple of cycles and still got within striking distance. The FL Dems have absolutely sh*t the bed.

Yeah, for all that Kari Lake is an insane person her margin of defeat was...literally 50-50. And Trump's was 49-49. Even Masters and Finchem both coming within 4 points didn't get crushed or anything; compare Demings losing by 18, Crist by 19, Ayala by 22. Arizona hasn't actually voted left of the country since, IDK, the 1940s? 

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Florida is worse but it’s staying more or less constant. Arizona is the fastest dropping

[Ragnaroni]

They both suck but one sucking helps me and the other is a mild annoyance needing to be fixed before the next election cycle.

[Spectator]

Arizona is basically VA and CO 12 years delayed. Both Senate seats and the governorship flipped in Colorado and Virginia from 2004-2008 and haven’t looked back since except for brief gubernatorial flirtations in VA. Arizona going from both Senate seats and the governorship being held by one party to flipping to the other in only four years is the fastest collapse of a state party in the post-Obama era.

FL Dems are atrocious, yes, but aside from 2018, I don’t think they could have done anything else to win any statewide races recently.

I'd argue CO is WAY more culturally liberal and naturally attracts left leaning people and VA has the D.C Metro area, which is one of the bluest areas of the nation.
There are some demographic changes in AZ since 2010/2012ish, but honestly more if it seems like self wounds.
They nominate awful candidates who are too far right for even AZ republicans and their state party is a complete embarrassment that was led by Kelli Ward. Also, for some reason, their candidates think its smart to bash John McCain.

That’s revisionist. In the 2000-2010 decade Colorado was nowhere near as culturally liberal as it is now. I’d say that started to change at the start of the Obama era. People forget it, but Democrats used to have to run conservative Democrats to win like Ken Salazar and Bill Ritter, both being pro-life, pro-gun, and anti-gay marriage at the time. Obama and Udall in 2008 were the first “liberal” victors in the state. There’s a lot of similarities there between Colorado of the early Obama era and Arizona now. Republicans had success in downballot statewide races, but couldn’t seem to win a Colorado Senate or governors race for the life of them aside from Gardner’s fluke 2014 win. Candidate quality was often the blame. Sound familiar?

Arizona’s trend runs far deeper than “self wounds” and awful candidates. Yes, Republicans probably (much more narrowly than people here want to admit) would have held onto the Governorship this year with Karrin Robson. But I’m skeptical any Republican would have beat Mark Kelly last year in hindsight. Martha McSally by all accounts was a “normal Republican” and she couldn’t win a Senate race, including against a woman who thought it appropriate to wear hooker boots on the Senate floor.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

After 6 week Abortion ban bill passed D's are back in contention in FL Emerson before this has D's tied in FL

[MT Treasurer]

Martha McSally by all accounts was a “normal Republican” and she couldn’t win a Senate race, including against a woman who thought it appropriate to wear hooker boots on the Senate floor.

Dude, stop. AZ is still a Republican/conservative state at heart. It’s just that when it does entertain sending a Democrat to the United States Senate, it’ll settle for nothing less than pink-tutu-wearing former Green party activists who appear on the debate stage with thigh-high stiletto heels and praise the clitoris.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Martha McSally by all accounts was a “normal Republican” and she couldn’t win a Senate race, including against a woman who thought it appropriate to wear hooker boots on the Senate floor.

Dude, stop. AZ is still a Republican/conservative state at heart. It’s just that when it does entertain sending a Democrat to the United States Senate, it’ll settle for nothing less than pink-tutu-wearing former Green party activists who appear on the debate stage with thigh-high stiletto heels and praise the clitoris.

How much did Lake win by and Trafalgar had her up 5

No it's not didnt you have Oz, Laxalt and Masters winning they lost Maricopa used to be R it's a D county


All states are Conserv red states and blue states AZ, GA, CO and VA and NC used to be R because Clinton sued Tobacco industry all states have metro and suburban and rural areas the ones that are blk populated that aren't Dakotas that's why I have an nut map

AZ is heavily blk and Latino pop like IL, NY, FL, TX, NJ, CA, thara why TX and FL, OH, NC, SC and IA can swing back to us

[TDAS04]

Florida definitely.

As for the AZ GOP, it may be somewhat incompetent these days, and that may have assisted Democrats in making gains in the Grand Canyon State.  However, Republicans still control plenty of government offices there, and how the hell did that lunatic Kari Lake even come close to winning the governorship?

[MargieCat]

FL Dems are more incompetent, at this point in time.

Even though the AZ GOP has had some losses, they still flipped the superintendent race, held the treasurer race, and held narrow majorities in both chambers.

The only consolation prize the FL Dems got in 2018 was Nikki Fried. And she is no longer in that position.

Republicans can still win AZ, if they are non-crazy. No Democrat, whether progressive, centrist, or even blue dog can win FL statewide nowadays. It's not a candidate quality problem for the FL Dems. It's an incompetent state party, or perhaps unfavorable demographics to the Democrats.

[Cyrusman]

Arizona is basically VA and CO 12 years delayed. Both Senate seats and the governorship flipped in Colorado and Virginia from 2004-2008 and haven’t looked back since except for brief gubernatorial flirtations in VA. Arizona going from both Senate seats and the governorship being held by one party to flipping to the other in only four years is the fastest collapse of a state party in the post-Obama era.

FL Dems are atrocious, yes, but aside from 2018, I don’t think they could have done anything else to win any statewide races recently.

I'd argue CO is WAY more culturally liberal and naturally attracts left leaning people and VA has the D.C Metro area, which is one of the bluest areas of the nation.
There are some demographic changes in AZ since 2010/2012ish, but honestly more if it seems like self wounds.
They nominate awful candidates who are too far right for even AZ republicans and their state party is a complete embarrassment that was led by Kelli Ward. Also, for some reason, their candidates think its smart to bash John McCain.

That’s revisionist. In the 2000-2010 decade Colorado was nowhere near as culturally liberal as it is now. I’d say that started to change at the start of the Obama era. People forget it, but Democrats used to have to run conservative Democrats to win like Ken Salazar and Bill Ritter, both being pro-life, pro-gun, and anti-gay marriage at the time. Obama and Udall in 2008 were the first “liberal” victors in the state. There’s a lot of similarities there between Colorado of the early Obama era and Arizona now. Republicans had success in downballot statewide races, but couldn’t seem to win a Colorado Senate or governors race for the life of them aside from Gardner’s fluke 2014 win. Candidate quality was often the blame. Sound familiar?

Arizona’s trend runs far deeper than “self wounds” and awful candidates. Yes, Republicans probably (much more narrowly than people here want to admit) would have held onto the Governorship this year with Karrin Robson. But I’m skeptical any Republican would have beat Mark Kelly last year in hindsight. Martha McSally by all accounts was a “normal Republican” and she couldn’t win a Senate race, including against a woman who thought it appropriate to wear hooker boots on the Senate floor.

Well CO was one of the first states to legalize marijuana along with WA I believe, and its always had somewhat of an environmental friendly culture, especially around Boulder. Also those CO races during the Obama years were going blue even with "normal sane" republicans. Kelly as a well funded incumbent would've been tough to beat, but I have no doubt the GOP would have won the governor, SOS, and attorney general race with some non Maga candidates. AZ is still a state that prioritizes border security very strongly, and is culturally not a big government state. Plus Dems seem to need about 10-12% of registered republicans to win. They have been able to get that the last few cycles, but I'm not going to compare AZ to CO just yet.

[Spectator]

Arizona is basically VA and CO 12 years delayed. Both Senate seats and the governorship flipped in Colorado and Virginia from 2004-2008 and haven’t looked back since except for brief gubernatorial flirtations in VA. Arizona going from both Senate seats and the governorship being held by one party to flipping to the other in only four years is the fastest collapse of a state party in the post-Obama era.

FL Dems are atrocious, yes, but aside from 2018, I don’t think they could have done anything else to win any statewide races recently.

I'd argue CO is WAY more culturally liberal and naturally attracts left leaning people and VA has the D.C Metro area, which is one of the bluest areas of the nation.
There are some demographic changes in AZ since 2010/2012ish, but honestly more if it seems like self wounds.
They nominate awful candidates who are too far right for even AZ republicans and their state party is a complete embarrassment that was led by Kelli Ward. Also, for some reason, their candidates think its smart to bash John McCain.

That’s revisionist. In the 2000-2010 decade Colorado was nowhere near as culturally liberal as it is now. I’d say that started to change at the start of the Obama era. People forget it, but Democrats used to have to run conservative Democrats to win like Ken Salazar and Bill Ritter, both being pro-life, pro-gun, and anti-gay marriage at the time. Obama and Udall in 2008 were the first “liberal” victors in the state. There’s a lot of similarities there between Colorado of the early Obama era and Arizona now. Republicans had success in downballot statewide races, but couldn’t seem to win a Colorado Senate or governors race for the life of them aside from Gardner’s fluke 2014 win. Candidate quality was often the blame. Sound familiar?

Arizona’s trend runs far deeper than “self wounds” and awful candidates. Yes, Republicans probably (much more narrowly than people here want to admit) would have held onto the Governorship this year with Karrin Robson. But I’m skeptical any Republican would have beat Mark Kelly last year in hindsight. Martha McSally by all accounts was a “normal Republican” and she couldn’t win a Senate race, including against a woman who thought it appropriate to wear hooker boots on the Senate floor.

Well CO was one of the first states to legalize marijuana along with WA I believe, and its always had somewhat of an environmental friendly culture, especially around Boulder. Also those CO races during the Obama years were going blue even with "normal sane" republicans. Kelly as a well funded incumbent would've been tough to beat, but I have no doubt the GOP would have won the governor, SOS, and attorney general race with some non Maga candidates. AZ is still a state that prioritizes border security very strongly, and is culturally not a big government state. Plus Dems seem to need about 10-12% of registered republicans to win. They have been able to get that the last few cycles, but I'm not going to compare AZ to CO just yet.

Tom Tancredo and Ken Buck were “normal, sane Republicans”? Doesn’t seem to be what the diagnosis was after they lost. A lot of the same arguments that are happening in Arizona now.

In fact, Arizona Democrats are having much greater success downballot than Colorado Democrats were in that time period. They’ve won more statewide races and held a majority of the congressional delegation longer than the comparable time period in Colorado.

And yes, Colorado did legalize weed first. In 2012. different time period than what we’re talking about. People made the same argument that Colorado was a libertarian state, one that is very pro-gun rights and anti-government. Look how that turned out.

Blue Arizona is here to stay.

[Mr. Smith]

The closest thing to FL Democrats on the other side is either Minnesota and even that's a far cry.

[Cyrusman]

Arizona is basically VA and CO 12 years delayed. Both Senate seats and the governorship flipped in Colorado and Virginia from 2004-2008 and haven’t looked back since except for brief gubernatorial flirtations in VA. Arizona going from both Senate seats and the governorship being held by one party to flipping to the other in only four years is the fastest collapse of a state party in the post-Obama era.

FL Dems are atrocious, yes, but aside from 2018, I don’t think they could have done anything else to win any statewide races recently.

I'd argue CO is WAY more culturally liberal and naturally attracts left leaning people and VA has the D.C Metro area, which is one of the bluest areas of the nation.
There are some demographic changes in AZ since 2010/2012ish, but honestly more if it seems like self wounds.
They nominate awful candidates who are too far right for even AZ republicans and their state party is a complete embarrassment that was led by Kelli Ward. Also, for some reason, their candidates think its smart to bash John McCain.

That’s revisionist. In the 2000-2010 decade Colorado was nowhere near as culturally liberal as it is now. I’d say that started to change at the start of the Obama era. People forget it, but Democrats used to have to run conservative Democrats to win like Ken Salazar and Bill Ritter, both being pro-life, pro-gun, and anti-gay marriage at the time. Obama and Udall in 2008 were the first “liberal” victors in the state. There’s a lot of similarities there between Colorado of the early Obama era and Arizona now. Republicans had success in downballot statewide races, but couldn’t seem to win a Colorado Senate or governors race for the life of them aside from Gardner’s fluke 2014 win. Candidate quality was often the blame. Sound familiar?

Arizona’s trend runs far deeper than “self wounds” and awful candidates. Yes, Republicans probably (much more narrowly than people here want to admit) would have held onto the Governorship this year with Karrin Robson. But I’m skeptical any Republican would have beat Mark Kelly last year in hindsight. Martha McSally by all accounts was a “normal Republican” and she couldn’t win a Senate race, including against a woman who thought it appropriate to wear hooker boots on the Senate floor.

Well CO was one of the first states to legalize marijuana along with WA I believe, and its always had somewhat of an environmental friendly culture, especially around Boulder. Also those CO races during the Obama years were going blue even with "normal sane" republicans. Kelly as a well funded incumbent would've been tough to beat, but I have no doubt the GOP would have won the governor, SOS, and attorney general race with some non Maga candidates. AZ is still a state that prioritizes border security very strongly, and is culturally not a big government state. Plus Dems seem to need about 10-12% of registered republicans to win. They have been able to get that the last few cycles, but I'm not going to compare AZ to CO just yet.

Tom Tancredo and Ken Buck were “normal, sane Republicans”? Doesn’t seem to be what the diagnosis was after they lost. A lot of the same arguments that are happening in Arizona now.

In fact, Arizona Democrats are having much greater success downballot than Colorado Democrats were in that time period. They’ve won more statewide races and held a majority of the congressional delegation longer than the comparable time period in Colorado.

And yes, Colorado did legalize weed first. In 2012. different time period than what we’re talking about. People made the same argument that Colorado was a libertarian state, one that is very pro-gun rights and anti-government. Look how that turned out.

Blue Arizona is here to stay.

The way you talk is as if you secretly are giddy and want a blue Arizona lol. Tom Tancredo and Ken Buck were not running in AZ. The majority of their sane republicans include Horn and Yee survived and Horn took down an incumbent and they did just fine down ballot and probably would have done better if the top of the ticket was stronger.

Anyways, I will just agree to disagree with you. I have never viewed AZ and CO similar culturally to be honest, and CO dems never consistently needed 10-12 % of their states GOP. AZ Dems still have a pretty low floor in AZ.

Also unless I am forgetting something, I don't remember a nutjob lunatic like Kelli Ward running the CO GOP at that time.