Are superhero movies finally becoming less profitable among audiences?

[Progressive Pessimist]

those ones with zendaya and the guy who invented sex were alright, other than that they r too confusing, so probably nobody can keep up with them anymore

"Guy who invented sex?"

[Landslide Lyndon]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

[THG]

We can only hope. But I still won't rest until every last copy of the MCU movies is tracked down and destroyed.

We can only hope! But can we spare the first Iron Man? I feel like that's probably the only MCU movie I'd rewatch willingly.

That film is responsible for the catastrophe that followed.

Yeah, but at least it feels like it's somewhat grounded in reality. It doesn't just throw Norse gods, space aliens, Russian spies, big green monsters, witches, mutants, WWII veterans, and magicians into one big disgusting melting pot. I honestly think it's impossible to like those Avengers movies unless you have some degree of ADHD.

Stop being a Marvel apologist.

Lol. I admit, while I don't hate that first Iron Man movie, I can't bring myself to watch it these days. It's become so tainted that I can't get anything out of it anymore.

I don't have a problem with it personally, but its impact on American culture has been so terrible that it isn't worth it. There are other good movies that have resulted in terrible things (Star Wars is a great example), but Iron Man ain't good enough in its own right to have been worth all that came later.

This is a fair point. That movie is okay as a standalone film, but my nostalgia blinds me to its horrible cultural impact.

The first two Raimi Spider Man movies + The Dark Knight are better individually but also don’t have anywhere near the same levels of negative cultural impact.

The Incredibles is the only truly great superhero movie. Prove me wrong.

Are we talking about the first one? That was obviously pretty good too, though I'm not a fan of the sequel at all. Regardless, the point I was making is that TDK/Raimi Spider Man (and you can add The Incredibles on here too) didn't have the same level of negative cultural impact on cinema as Iron Man 1 accidently did.

I know that TDK inspired some really crappy DCEU movies, but even though those movies sucked, they didn't singlehandedly place a chokehold over 15+ years worth of cinema. And the general trend of copying the "dark and Nolany" theme didn't ruin cinema anywhere near as much as the "quippy" Marvelization of it did.

And I don't think anyone can blame Raimi Spider-Man for the MCU. If anything, Spider Man 3 getting poor critical reviews at the time and causing the cancelation of SM4 is probably a catalyst to the MCU being formed.

[TheElectoralBoobyPrize]

We can only hope. But I still won't rest until every last copy of the MCU movies is tracked down and destroyed.

We can only hope! But can we spare the first Iron Man? I feel like that's probably the only MCU movie I'd rewatch willingly.

That film is responsible for the catastrophe that followed.

Yeah, but at least it feels like it's somewhat grounded in reality. It doesn't just throw Norse gods, space aliens, Russian spies, big green monsters, witches, mutants, WWII veterans, and magicians into one big disgusting melting pot. I honestly think it's impossible to like those Avengers movies unless you have some degree of ADHD.

Stop being a Marvel apologist.

Lol. I admit, while I don't hate that first Iron Man movie, I can't bring myself to watch it these days. It's become so tainted that I can't get anything out of it anymore.

I don't have a problem with it personally, but its impact on American culture has been so terrible that it isn't worth it. There are other good movies that have resulted in terrible things (Star Wars is a great example), but Iron Man ain't good enough in its own right to have been worth all that came later.

This is a fair point. That movie is okay as a standalone film, but my nostalgia blinds me to its horrible cultural impact.

The first two Raimi Spider Man movies + The Dark Knight are better individually but also don’t have anywhere near the same levels of negative cultural impact.

The Incredibles is the only truly great superhero movie. Prove me wrong.

The Incredibles was derivative of Fantastic Four and Watchmen (the comics, not the movies since those came afterwards). It was very basic and by-the-numbers.

[RI]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

That's the MCU's secret; they're always mediocre.

[Landslide Lyndon]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

That's the MCU's secret; they're always mediocre.

I'm frankly tired of all this snobbish criticism of the MCU. The same arrogant dismissal of genre movies has been the norm forever whether it was westerns and film noirs in the 40s and 50s, sci-fi and action movies in the 70's and 80's, or comic book movies in the 21st century.

[John Dule]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

That's the MCU's secret; they're always mediocre.

I'm frankly tired of all this snobbish criticism of the MCU. The same arrogant dismissal of genre movies has been the norm forever whether it was westerns and film noirs in the 40s and 50s, sci-fi and action movies in the 70's and 80's, or comic book movies in the 21st century.

Truly, the MCU will be remembered in the annals of film history in its rightful place beside Disney’s Star Wars and the Hobbit movies.

[GeneralMacArthur]

There could be good MCU movies again, but they've gone off the rails.

The fact that we're in a post-Thanos world doesn't mean there can't be good movies.  They could do something like Captain America: The Winter Soldier again and everyone would love it.

There are a couple problems that pretty much anyone can identify though.

First, RDJ and Chris Evans were really really talented actors who held those movies together.  People loved watching Iron Man and, as time went on, Captain America really grew on everyone to become the clear second-best character.  Chris Hemsworth got good pretty late in the series (Thor 3, Infinity War) and seemed pretty disinterested in Thor 4.

Second, Marvel has tried to introduce new characters, but most of them aren't very good.  People just don't care.  Especially when half of them just feel like "the girl version of a character who already exists, but much smarter and more talented than that character."

Third, Marvel has absolutely flooded the space with content, to the point where it no longer feels like an MCU movie is a "special event", more like it's a quarterly obligation.  Phase 1 gave us Iron Man in 2008, and then we waited two whole years for Iron Man 2.  2011 had Thor and Captain America back-to-back, and then we waited a whole year for The Avengers.  That was five movies in four years.  Then phase 2 had two movies a year, and even by Ant Man people were already starting to get a bit worn out.  Phase 3 bumped it up to three movies a year.  Then in 2021 we had four movies and five Disney+ series.  That really felt like the turning point where everyone said "we're sick of MCU."

Fourth, but related, it doesn't help that Marvel has made clear that this next phase is a "multiverse" where all their content crosses over, so you need to be familiar with everything.  You needed to have seen WandaVision for Dr. Strange 2 to make sense.  You need to have seen Loki for any of the Kang stuff to make sense.  You'll need to have seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier for Captain America: New World Order to make sense.  It was easy to be ready for The Avengers, because you only needed to have seen three movies.  Infinity War demanded familiarity with Black Panther, Thor 3, Captain America: Civil War, Guardians of the Galaxy and Dr. Strange, but at least most of those were good movies that pretty much everybody saw, so it didn't feel as exhausting.  Nobody made me watch all seven seasons of Agents of SHIELD just to go see the next Marvel blockbuster!  In contrast most of these new movies demand that you've seen some TV show on a subscription service, or some mediocre movie that got poor reviews, so it feels like homework.  Since Black Widow looked mediocre and got poor reviews, I didn't watch it, and now if some Avengers movie comes out prominently featuring a character from that movie, I'll be disinclined to go see it.

So, the old characters people liked are gone, replaced by new characters they don't like, and Marvel is saying "even though you don't like these new characters, you have to watch the 30 hours of content per year we're pushing out featuring them, or you won't understand our next big blockbuster."  And people are saying, ok that's fine, we were good with Endgame anyway, we just won't watch lol

[VBM]

There could be good MCU movies again, but they've gone off the rails.

The fact that we're in a post-Thanos world doesn't mean there can't be good movies.  They could do something like Captain America: The Winter Soldier again and everyone would love it.

There are a couple problems that pretty much anyone can identify though.

First, RDJ and Chris Evans were really really talented actors who held those movies together.  People loved watching Iron Man and, as time went on, Captain America really grew on everyone to become the clear second-best character.  Chris Hemsworth got good pretty late in the series (Thor 3, Infinity War) and seemed pretty disinterested in Thor 4.

Second, Marvel has tried to introduce new characters, but most of them aren't very good.  People just don't care.  Especially when half of them just feel like "the girl version of a character who already exists, but much smarter and more talented than that character."

Third, Marvel has absolutely flooded the space with content, to the point where it no longer feels like an MCU movie is a "special event", more like it's a quarterly obligation.  Phase 1 gave us Iron Man in 2008, and then we waited two whole years for Iron Man 2.  2011 had Thor and Captain America back-to-back, and then we waited a whole year for The Avengers.  That was five movies in four years.  Then phase 2 had two movies a year, and even by Ant Man people were already starting to get a bit worn out.  Phase 3 bumped it up to three movies a year.  Then in 2021 we had four movies and five Disney+ series.  That really felt like the turning point where everyone said "we're sick of MCU."

Fourth, but related, it doesn't help that Marvel has made clear that this next phase is a "multiverse" where all their content crosses over, so you need to be familiar with everything.  You needed to have seen WandaVision for Dr. Strange 2 to make sense.  You need to have seen Loki for any of the Kang stuff to make sense.  You'll need to have seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier for Captain America: New World Order to make sense.  It was easy to be ready for The Avengers, because you only needed to have seen three movies.  Infinity War demanded familiarity with Black Panther, Thor 3, Captain America: Civil War, Guardians of the Galaxy and Dr. Strange, but at least most of those were good movies that pretty much everybody saw, so it didn't feel as exhausting.  Nobody made me watch all seven seasons of Agents of SHIELD just to go see the next Marvel blockbuster!  In contrast most of these new movies demand that you've seen some TV show on a subscription service, or some mediocre movie that got poor reviews, so it feels like homework.  Since Black Widow looked mediocre and got poor reviews, I didn't watch it, and now if some Avengers movie comes out prominently featuring a character from that movie, I'll be disinclined to go see it.

So, the old characters people liked are gone, replaced by new characters they don't like, and Marvel is saying "even though you don't like these new characters, you have to watch the 30 hours of content per year we're pushing out featuring them, or you won't understand our next big blockbuster."  And people are saying, ok that's fine, we were good with Endgame anyway, we just won't watch lol

When it comes to introducing new heroes, Marvel should do it in mini-series that aren't at all related to the plots of the movies, like Moon Knight (which was pretty good actually). If the show gets good reviews, they can start drafting plans to incorporate that new character into some of the movies a few years down the line. If the new character is a dud, just keep them away from the movies.

[VBM]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

That's the MCU's secret; they're always mediocre.

I'm frankly tired of all this snobbish criticism of the MCU. The same arrogant dismissal of genre movies has been the norm forever whether it was westerns and film noirs in the 40s and 50s, sci-fi and action movies in the 70's and 80's, or comic book movies in the 21st century.

Truly, the MCU will be remembered in the annals of film history in its rightful place beside Disney’s Star Wars and the Hobbit movies.

Horrible take. The first 3 phases of the MCU were pretty good, for the most part (with the first 2 Thor movies and the Iron Man sequels being the only duds). None of the Disney's Star Wars movies (except Rogue One) were good, and none of the Hobbit movies were good.

[VBM]

MCU largely jumped the shark following Avengers: Endgame, with maybe the notable exception of the Spider-Man films.

I liked No Way Home at the time, but in hindsight, it was because that movie was the first true post-COVID box office hit (I like cinemas and don't like the concept of movies released solely on streaming services) and one of the first times I'd been to the theater since March of 2020. Also, my massive nostalgia for the Maguire/Raimi trilogy in particular was a huge bonus.

Looking back, that movie was probably just okay, which by MCU/DCEU standards is a masterpiece. Never saw its predecessor.

That's how it is with the MCU Spiderman movies. They're fun to watch the first time, but they're extremely boring to rewatch. I loved Homecoming and Far From Home when I first saw them, but when I was rewatching them before No Way Home's release with my roommate, it was so boring.

[VBM]

We can only hope. But I still won't rest until every last copy of the MCU movies is tracked down and destroyed.

We can only hope! But can we spare the first Iron Man? I feel like that's probably the only MCU movie I'd rewatch willingly.

What about Guardians of the Galaxy?

[GeneralMacArthur]

The Marvel movies that are rewatchable are:
Iron Man
The Avengers
Captain America:  The Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy 1+2
Thor: Ragnarok
Black Panther
Infinity War & Endgame

That's 9/23 from the first three phases.  Not great, not terrible.  Many of the other movies were enjoyable on first watch but not bad.

The Incredible Hulk is pretty much forgotten and buried at this point... nobody watched it, nobody watches it.

Iron Man 2 is generally agreed to be a poor movie, blamed on the writer's strike.

Thor is mediocre and forgettable, especially since the most interesting parts of it were the introduction of characters and settings who did way more interesting things in later movies.

Captain America: The First Avenger is a very clunky and ugly movie, it's benefitted a lot from nostalgia goggles and the fact that Chris Evans really grew into the role, plus like Thor the fact that the few memorable parts of the movie have been repeatedly referenced in later movies.

Iron Man 3 is just a giant clusterf--k of a movie

Thor: The Dark World I watched this one and couldn't tell you a single thing about the plot, it was totally forgettable and I remember being bored out of my mind

Avengers: Age of Ultron has a reputation as the "bad" Avengers movie; it's more fun than you remember but ultimately a lot of confusing talking and a plot that was really hard to follow and ultimately inconsequential.  And a weak ending fight that's just a generic weak robot army.

Ant-Man I remember thinking "oh that was kinda fun" and now I don't remember anything that happened.

Captain America:  Civil War I remembered really enjoying this when I saw it in theaters, so five years later I went back and rewatched it and was bored out of my mind.  Probably the definition of a movie that's good, but not rewatchable.  I think the twists in Zemo's plot are what make this movie really work the first time.

Doctor Strange is just a generic origin story movie.

Spider-Man: Homecoming people are unfair to this movie, it's one of the better Marvel movies and well-done start to finish.  That said I don't really feel any desire to see it again.  But it is a good movie.

Ant-Man and the Wasp who care, watched it on my couch and was on my phone through most of it

Captain Marvel is the one bad movie from phase 3.  All of phase 3 was at least ok, there was nothing as boring as Thor: The Dark World or as bad as Iron Man 2.  This is the bad one.  It's just really cringey.

For all that negativity though, the 9 I listed at the top I think are genuinely really good movies that will stand the test of time and still be culturally relevant and watched and enjoyed by millions decades from now.  I mean it's already been 15 years since Iron Man and we can all still agree that it was a really good movie.

[John Dule]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

That's the MCU's secret; they're always mediocre.

I'm frankly tired of all this snobbish criticism of the MCU. The same arrogant dismissal of genre movies has been the norm forever whether it was westerns and film noirs in the 40s and 50s, sci-fi and action movies in the 70's and 80's, or comic book movies in the 21st century.

Truly, the MCU will be remembered in the annals of film history in its rightful place beside Disney’s Star Wars and the Hobbit movies.

Horrible take. The first 3 phases of the MCU were pretty good, for the most part (with the first 2 Thor movies and the Iron Man sequels being the only duds). None of the Disney's Star Wars movies (except Rogue One) were good, and none of the Hobbit movies were good.

It's not a "take." It's an objective fact that those films took zero effort to write, storyboard, produce, film, or act in. They're the dumbest things ever to infest the theaters and they are enjoyed almost exclusively by an army of neckbearded man-children who collect Funko Pop dolls and will watch literally anything that has their favorite brand logo on the poster. Rogue One is also one of the worst films ever made, if not the absolute worst (relative to its budget).

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's not a "take." It's an objective fact that those films took zero effort to write, storyboard, produce, film, or act in. They're the dumbest things ever to infest the theaters and they are enjoyed almost exclusively by an army of neckbearded man-children who collect Funko Pop dolls and will watch literally anything that has their favorite brand logo on the poster. Rogue One is also one of the worst films ever made, if not the absolute worst (relative to its budget).

Wow! I doubt that even the most jaded Academy members and movie critics reek so much of elitism.
I guess your idea of a fun evening is watching social dramas from third world countries about the evils of post-colonialism and character studies about drug addicts who try to battle their inner demons.

[Kleine Scheiße]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

That's the MCU's secret; they're always mediocre.

I'm frankly tired of all this snobbish criticism of the MCU. The same arrogant dismissal of genre movies has been the norm forever whether it was westerns and film noirs in the 40s and 50s, sci-fi and action movies in the 70's and 80's, or comic book movies in the 21st century.

every one of those genres was subject to massive oversaturation and the only reason we now look with confusion at past criticism of them is that a minority of films from those genres persisted because they were really great standout examples of the style

personally i don't hate superhero movies because they're all bad or because i hate the fanbase (though they can get pretty annoying like every fanbase can); the reason i hate superhero movies is that the film industry at a certain point is zero-sum and these movies with their inflated budgets, their all-star casting, and all of this manufactured insecurity about "elitism" the second anybody deigns to critique them... these films push other worthy movies out of production entirely, sucking up all of the funding, talent, and screen space in theaters; or worse, they "influence" them (read: a studio said it would make more money if you added explosions and a really bad romantic B-plot). this is a phenomenon that has already devastated broadway; i am not interested in having this happen to film as well.

the batman is the only superhero film i have thoroughly enjoyed

[VBM]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

That's the MCU's secret; they're always mediocre.

I'm frankly tired of all this snobbish criticism of the MCU. The same arrogant dismissal of genre movies has been the norm forever whether it was westerns and film noirs in the 40s and 50s, sci-fi and action movies in the 70's and 80's, or comic book movies in the 21st century.

Truly, the MCU will be remembered in the annals of film history in its rightful place beside Disney’s Star Wars and the Hobbit movies.

Horrible take. The first 3 phases of the MCU were pretty good, for the most part (with the first 2 Thor movies and the Iron Man sequels being the only duds). None of the Disney's Star Wars movies (except Rogue One) were good, and none of the Hobbit movies were good.

It's not a "take." It's an objective fact that those films took zero effort to write, storyboard, produce, film, or act in. They're the dumbest things ever to infest the theaters and they are enjoyed almost exclusively by an army of neckbearded man-children who collect Funko Pop dolls and will watch literally anything that has their favorite brand logo on the poster. Rogue One is also one of the worst films ever made, if not the absolute worst (relative to its budget).

The fact that you’re a lifetime sober really does show sometimes

[Landslide Lyndon]

personally i don't hate superhero movies because they're all bad or because i hate the fanbase (though they can get pretty annoying like every fanbase can); the reason i hate superhero movies is that the film industry at a certain point is zero-sum and these movies with their inflated budgets, their all-star casting, and all of this manufactured insecurity about "elitism" the second anybody deigns to critique them... these films push other worthy movies out of production entirely, sucking up all of the funding, talent, and screen space in theaters; or worse, they "influence" them (read: a studio said it would make more money if you added explosions and a really bad romantic B-plot). this is a phenomenon that has already devastated broadway; i am not interested in having this happen to film as well.

the batman is the only superhero film i have thoroughly enjoyed

I'm sorry but if you were concerned about studio resources being wasted in bad movies then the main target of your resentment should have been the Transformers or Fast & Furious franchises. Especially the former which has absolutely zero redeeming qualities.
That fact that instead you (plural) constantly bitch and whine about the MCU and comic book movies in general, which in most cases actually have a story to tale and a message/moral to impart, shows to me that you aren't arguing in good faith.

[Kleine Scheiße]

personally i don't hate superhero movies because they're all bad or because i hate the fanbase (though they can get pretty annoying like every fanbase can); the reason i hate superhero movies is that the film industry at a certain point is zero-sum and these movies with their inflated budgets, their all-star casting, and all of this manufactured insecurity about "elitism" the second anybody deigns to critique them... these films push other worthy movies out of production entirely, sucking up all of the funding, talent, and screen space in theaters; or worse, they "influence" them (read: a studio said it would make more money if you added explosions and a really bad romantic B-plot). this is a phenomenon that has already devastated broadway; i am not interested in having this happen to film as well.

the batman is the only superhero film i have thoroughly enjoyed

I'm sorry but if you were concerned about studio resources being wasted in bad movies then the main target of your resentment should have been the Transformers or Fast & Furious franchises. Especially the former which has absolutely zero redeeming qualities.
That fact that instead you (plural) constantly bitch and whine about the MCU and comic book movies in general, which in most cases actually have a story to tale and a message/moral to impart, shows to me that you aren't arguing in good faith.

are transformers and racing movies currently the problem? because if you think i won't happily bitch about them too, you're not understanding where i'm coming from very well

[Landslide Lyndon]

personally i don't hate superhero movies because they're all bad or because i hate the fanbase (though they can get pretty annoying like every fanbase can); the reason i hate superhero movies is that the film industry at a certain point is zero-sum and these movies with their inflated budgets, their all-star casting, and all of this manufactured insecurity about "elitism" the second anybody deigns to critique them... these films push other worthy movies out of production entirely, sucking up all of the funding, talent, and screen space in theaters; or worse, they "influence" them (read: a studio said it would make more money if you added explosions and a really bad romantic B-plot). this is a phenomenon that has already devastated broadway; i am not interested in having this happen to film as well.

the batman is the only superhero film i have thoroughly enjoyed

I'm sorry but if you were concerned about studio resources being wasted in bad movies then the main target of your resentment should have been the Transformers or Fast & Furious franchises. Especially the former which has absolutely zero redeeming qualities.
That fact that instead you (plural) constantly bitch and whine about the MCU and comic book movies in general, which in most cases actually have a story to tale and a message/moral to impart, shows to me that you aren't arguing in good faith.

are transformers and racing movies currently the problem?

Considering that they are vastly inferior to even the worst MCU movie, yes.

[John Dule]

It's not a "take." It's an objective fact that those films took zero effort to write, storyboard, produce, film, or act in. They're the dumbest things ever to infest the theaters and they are enjoyed almost exclusively by an army of neckbearded man-children who collect Funko Pop dolls and will watch literally anything that has their favorite brand logo on the poster. Rogue One is also one of the worst films ever made, if not the absolute worst (relative to its budget).

Wow! I doubt that even the most jaded Academy members and movie critics reek so much of elitism.
I guess your idea of a fun evening is watching social dramas from third world countries about the evils of post-colonialism and character studies about drug addicts who try to battle their inner demons.

There are plenty of great action movies. Why can’t Marvel neckbeards conceive of the fact that people just hate their movies, and it doesn’t have anything to do with “elitism?” It’s like they know there’s no artistic defense of these films and so they just call anyone who dislikes them “biased.” You don’t see this type of pathetic parasocial excuse-making from any other fan community.

[John Dule]

The latest comic book movies underperformed because they were mediocre and featured B-level characters. If Guardians 3 is as good as expected then all this talk about comic book movie fatigue will look pretty silly, again.

That's the MCU's secret; they're always mediocre.

I'm frankly tired of all this snobbish criticism of the MCU. The same arrogant dismissal of genre movies has been the norm forever whether it was westerns and film noirs in the 40s and 50s, sci-fi and action movies in the 70's and 80's, or comic book movies in the 21st century.

Truly, the MCU will be remembered in the annals of film history in its rightful place beside Disney’s Star Wars and the Hobbit movies.

Horrible take. The first 3 phases of the MCU were pretty good, for the most part (with the first 2 Thor movies and the Iron Man sequels being the only duds). None of the Disney's Star Wars movies (except Rogue One) were good, and none of the Hobbit movies were good.

It's not a "take." It's an objective fact that those films took zero effort to write, storyboard, produce, film, or act in. They're the dumbest things ever to infest the theaters and they are enjoyed almost exclusively by an army of neckbearded man-children who collect Funko Pop dolls and will watch literally anything that has their favorite brand logo on the poster. Rogue One is also one of the worst films ever made, if not the absolute worst (relative to its budget).

The fact that you’re a lifetime sober really does show sometimes

I didn’t realize alcoholism was a prerequisite for film criticism.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's not a "take." It's an objective fact that those films took zero effort to write, storyboard, produce, film, or act in. They're the dumbest things ever to infest the theaters and they are enjoyed almost exclusively by an army of neckbearded man-children who collect Funko Pop dolls and will watch literally anything that has their favorite brand logo on the poster. Rogue One is also one of the worst films ever made, if not the absolute worst (relative to its budget).

Wow! I doubt that even the most jaded Academy members and movie critics reek so much of elitism.
I guess your idea of a fun evening is watching social dramas from third world countries about the evils of post-colonialism and character studies about drug addicts who try to battle their inner demons.

There are plenty of great action movies. Why can’t Marvel neckbeards conceive of the fact that people just hate their movies, and it doesn’t have anything to do with “elitism?” It’s like they know there’s no artistic defense of these films and so they just call anyone who dislikes them “biased.” You don’t see this type of pathetic parasocial excuse-making from any other fan community.

Saying you don't like Marvel films is one thing. Angrily denouncing them as worse than Hitler is another.

[John Dule]

It's not a "take." It's an objective fact that those films took zero effort to write, storyboard, produce, film, or act in. They're the dumbest things ever to infest the theaters and they are enjoyed almost exclusively by an army of neckbearded man-children who collect Funko Pop dolls and will watch literally anything that has their favorite brand logo on the poster. Rogue One is also one of the worst films ever made, if not the absolute worst (relative to its budget).

Wow! I doubt that even the most jaded Academy members and movie critics reek so much of elitism.
I guess your idea of a fun evening is watching social dramas from third world countries about the evils of post-colonialism and character studies about drug addicts who try to battle their inner demons.

There are plenty of great action movies. Why can’t Marvel neckbeards conceive of the fact that people just hate their movies, and it doesn’t have anything to do with “elitism?” It’s like they know there’s no artistic defense of these films and so they just call anyone who dislikes them “biased.” You don’t see this type of pathetic parasocial excuse-making from any other fan community.

Saying you don't like Marvel films is one thing. Angrily denouncing them as worse than Hitler is another.

I don't recall ever saying such a thing. Though to be fair, Triumph of the Will has more artistic merit than anything Marvel has ever produced.

[Devout Centrist]

On a technical level, there is a very real limit to the kind of scenes you can shoot with ILM's Stagecraft technology. I went to see Antman with a friend and I was disappointed by how cramped the film felt. It was the visual equivalent to a sudden pang of claustrophobia. You have such a limited range of motion for the actors and set design that the film felt like it was shot in an enclosed space. There's no room for the setting to breathe. You have to focus dead center on the dozen or so cast members and you can't give the audience the same sense of scale you could by filming on location or on a larger set.

That's not to say this is the *only* problem with superhero films, but it is distracting and it's not just superhero films that are affected by these production decisions nowadays.