6 dead in shooting at Christian elementary school in Nashville

[DaleCooper]

So while everyone's been arguing in this thread, has anyone posted this yet?

https://nypost.com/2023/03/27/everything-we-know-about-the-nashville-school-shooter/

Seems that the shooter (1) once attended the school in question, and (2) posted on social media about the problem of gun violence back in 2012. I'm increasingly getting the vibe that this was some kind of attempt to "strike back" against a Christian school that somehow wronged this person, or against Christians/conservatives in general.

Pretty clearly retaliation. Someone mentioned one of the child victims being the daughter of a pastor associated with the school. Tough to say if that's a coincidence or if the shooter targeted her, but if it's true that she's "striking back" against this school in particular it wouldn't surprise me if many of these victims were marked ahead of time.

JD Vance is obviously an unrepentant degenerate and I don't defend him as a person, but he does have a point with the post someone shared in this thread. The rhetoric from the left has been very over-the-top lately. If we're going to (rightly) blame the right wing "white genocide" fear-mongers for anti-immigrant or anti-minority terrorist attacks then it's pretty hypocritical to pretend that there's no chance an attack on a christian school stems from similar fear-mongering on the left.

Also, credit to the officers in this area for putting a stop to the shooting as soon as they could. That's in stark contrast to the Uvalde officers who chose to let as many kids get killed as possible. I still believe the Uvalde officers that refused to intervene in that incident should be given the death penalty.

[DaleCooper]

The mandatory minimum sentence for mass shooting should be the death penalty.

No.

Give me one good reason why not.

Arguably a few shooters have surrendered during the event itself. Certain death penalty might lessen the likelihood of surrender.

This is an issue with mandatory harsh sentencing that a lot of people ignore. As satisfying as it may be to demand the death penalty (or even life in prison for certain heinous but non-fatal crimes, like sexual crimes), it is going to result in a lot more desperate and violent behavior from people that may not have gone so far if they thought they'd be able to make their case in court. You'll see a lot more killings of victims in an attempt by the perpetrator to make sure they don't get caught, you'll see a lot more going out in a "blaze of glory" as they say. Arguably this is why traffic stops or run-of-the-mill search warrants have become so potentially dangerous. If the suspect is on his third strike or knows his life will basically end if he's caught then he might lash out. And all this is coming from someone who does believe that the death penalty should be on the table, but hard-line sentencing like what's been suggested is unhelpful and only serves to make internet people feel a little better.

[DaleCooper]

The mandatory minimum sentence for mass shooting should be the death penalty.

No.

Give me one good reason why not.

I'll give you 7.

1. The death penalty is not an effective deterrent.

2. The death penalty is more expensive than incarcerating someone for life.

3. There will always be the chance that someone is wrongfully executed.

4. School shooters are (arguably) fundamentally insane, and we should not execute the criminally insane.

5. The state should not choose which of its citizens lives and dies.

6. Mandatory minimums are a fundamentally bad policy.

7. If the death penalty is guarantied, then you're truly giving these people nothing to lose and they might wind up killing even more people.

1. So what would be an effective deterrent for school shooters?

2. That can easily be fixed

3. Not for a school shooting. The shooter’s guilt is undeniable.

4. Insane or not, they still killed children

5. Why not? Why should the state be allowed to decide who can be locked away for the rest of their life, but not decide who is too evil/dangerous to be kept alive? Seems like an arbitrary rule to me.

6. I don’t really care about it being a mandatory minimum for school shooters, but I do think school shooters should definitely be eligible for the death penalty.

7. Most of them already have “nothing to lose” anyways

It's really hard to deter irrational behavior, and school shooters are already not afraid of death, at least not enough to stop them from killing, because the chances of walking away alive is very small, and a lot of them kill themselves too.

If you want to deter crazy criminals, you have to lock crazy people up in asylums before they start hurting people. That's not something many people want to hear either, but I have noticed that a lot of the times when something like this happens, it becomes very very clear that the killer was obviously a crazy lunatic for a long time before they went on a killing spree. I'm certainly not advocating that every single eccentric or crazy person get thrown into a One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest hellscape, but some people really do need to be institutionalized for their own good and for the safety of others.

[DaleCooper]

If you want to deter crazy criminals, you have to lock crazy people up in asylums before they start hurting people. That's not something many people want to hear either, but I have noticed that a lot of the times when something like this happens, it becomes very very clear that the killer was obviously a crazy lunatic for a long time before they went on a killing spree. I'm certainly not advocating that every single eccentric or crazy person get thrown into a One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest hellscape, but some people really do need to be institutionalized for their own good and for the safety of others.

This.

Under America accepts how useful mass incarceration is, we won’t be able to solve our problems.

I'm not talking about mass incarceration. I'm talking about institutionalizing crazy people who obviously are not safe to be out wandering around on their own.

[DaleCooper]

If you want to deter crazy criminals, you have to lock crazy people up in asylums before they start hurting people. That's not something many people want to hear either, but I have noticed that a lot of the times when something like this happens, it becomes very very clear that the killer was obviously a crazy lunatic for a long time before they went on a killing spree. I'm certainly not advocating that every single eccentric or crazy person get thrown into a One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest hellscape, but some people really do need to be institutionalized for their own good and for the safety of others.

This.

Under America accepts how useful mass incarceration is, we won’t be able to solve our problems.

I'm not talking about mass incarceration. I'm talking about institutionalizing crazy people who obviously are not safe to be out wandering around on their own.

That’s mass incarceration. They might not be in prisons per se, but any time someone is detained against their will is incarceration.

Being held against their will in a mental institution because they're insane is much different than being held against their will because they're a criminal sentenced to prison. That's an important distinction and is not captured by the term mass incarceration.

[DaleCooper]

So at what point are we going to start putting the blame on the American voter?

I've been doing that for a long time.

[DaleCooper]

This detail from this WP article is really vague, but potentially very disturbing:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/28/nashville-school-shooter/

Drake, the police chief, said investigators had interviewed the shooter’s parents. Hale was receiving a “doctor’s care for an emotional disorder,” Drake told reporters at a news briefing; he did not elaborate on what that disorder was or the nature of the treatment.

Did Hale’s parent believe that being trans was an “emotional disorder”? If so, how exactly were they being “treated” for it?

Right, because someone who killed six innocent people clearly didn’t have an emotional disorder…

She was also almost 30 years old. It seems pretty outrageous to assume that parental acceptance was the immediate cause of this.

[DaleCooper]

This detail from this WP article is really vague, but potentially very disturbing:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/28/nashville-school-shooter/

Drake, the police chief, said investigators had interviewed the shooter’s parents. Hale was receiving a “doctor’s care for an emotional disorder,” Drake told reporters at a news briefing; he did not elaborate on what that disorder was or the nature of the treatment.

Did Hale’s parent believe that being trans was an “emotional disorder”? If so, how exactly were they being “treated” for it?

Right, because someone who killed six innocent people clearly didn’t have an emotional disorder…

Hale was clearly emotionally/mentally unwell at the time of the shooting.  But what was the cause of that?  

There’s lot of evidence indicating of mental health problems among trans people being the result of attempts to “treat” them.  And “emotional disorder” is the type of vague language than transphobic people use to justify babaric treatments in lieu of accepting trans identity.

Obviously we need a lot more information.  But the language here just raised a lot of red flags for me.

Audrey Hale was nearly 30 years old so she'd consent to any kind of treatment, I would think, unless she was debilitated to the point of being a ward of the parents, but I doubt that since all the gun purchases were legal. Of course Republicans believe that deranged people with documented psychological disorders should be allowed to own and purchase guns. As far as I'm concerned Republicans want this to happen. It's the only logical explanation.

[DaleCooper]

I was thinking about this recently because I was shocked at how quick the right was to stop using it for political purposes. I figured this would replace the Steve Scalise shooting as their go-to example for radical liberal socialist terrorism or whatever. But now that I consider it, it shouldn't be shocking that this faded away.

School shootings are obviously so emotional for people that it doesn't really matter what identity the perpetrator is, even in the minds of partisan voters. Ultimately, Democrats don't want people like this (transgender or not) to have guns, and Republicans want to do everything in their power to make sure that more people like this shooter acquire guns. That would become immediately obvious if Republicans kept trying to score points with this.

[DaleCooper]

Didn't we already know from the beginning that this was an anti-Christian hate crime? I'm pretty sure it was discussed here, like, that afternoon.

I guess the race angle wasn't known.

[DaleCooper]

Didn't we already know from the beginning that this was an anti-Christian hate crime? I'm pretty sure it was discussed here, like, that afternoon.

I guess the race angle wasn't known.

     Yeah, this is the big surprise for me. That the attack was anti-Christian is the most obvious thing in the world, but I don't think anyone predicted it would be anti-white too.

It's like if a CRT woke person used 4chan language. Very bizarre. Regardless, she was clearly crazy and never should have been allowed near a gun but Republicans don't want to address this in any way.

[DaleCooper]

I'd rather have mass shootings every day than live in a sh-thole police state like Singapore. Libertarian my ass. Why are self-proclaimed "libertarians" almost always the most fringe, radical, extremist authoritarians in the room?

[DaleCooper]

I'd rather have mass shootings every day than live in a sh-thole police state like Singapore. Libertarian my ass. Why are self-proclaimed "libertarians" almost always the most fringe, radical, extremist authoritarians in the room?

Imagine carrying about anything more than money

Please don't respond to my posts, I'm not a fan.

[DaleCooper]

I'd rather have mass shootings every day than live in a sh-thole police state like Singapore. Libertarian my ass. Why are self-proclaimed "libertarians" almost always the most fringe, radical, extremist authoritarians in the room?

Because they hate Government more than they love America.

They don't seem to hate the government since they're always advocating for more government power over our lives.