6 dead in shooting at Christian elementary school in Nashville

[Ferguson97]

[Ferguson97]

Gun control doesn’t always work. Somalia has a total ban on civilians owning guns, how’s that working out for them?

Somalia is a failed state, what a stupid comparison.

[Ferguson97]

The shooter is allegedly a 28-year-old woman, which is not the usual profile of a mass shooter.

Is it possible she was an ex-employee or a parent?

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/gabegutierrez/status/1640451945268932608

A reputable source confirms that the shooter is named Audrey Hale.

No confirmation if this is the same Audrey Hale in the screenshots above.

[Ferguson97]

The local authorities did confirm that the shooter was transgender and that they're investigating whether the church and school's views on sexuality and gender identity motivated the attack.

Let's avoid this becoming a flame war on transgender issues.

I saw them confirm the name and that Hale was a former student, but can you link the source on them confirming that the shooter was indeed trans?

[Ferguson97]

The local authorities did confirm that the shooter was transgender and that they're investigating whether the church and school's views on sexuality and gender identity motivated the attack.

Let's avoid this becoming a flame war on transgender issues.

I saw them confirm the name and that Hale was a former student, but can you link the source on them confirming that the shooter was indeed trans?

https://twitter.com/breaking911/status/1640465699305816064

That said, there’s no indication that the shooter’s gender identity motivated the shooting at all. The manifesto hasn’t been released yet.

I'm looking for a more reputable source than "Breaking911".

Edit: found one myself

https://twitter.com/ToriGessnerTV/status/1640464459805212672

And just like that, right-wingers will believe it when someone says they are trans.


Obviously the shooting is reprehensible, and the shooter being trans doesn't change that. If there's a hell, they're burning there.

The overwhelming majority of shooters are cis men. The problem remains guns.

[Ferguson97]

So was the shooter a man or woman? Every report I'm seeing is saying it was a woman, but the individual being identified is a transgender man?

Biological female / born a woman.

So why are they being misgendered everywhere, even in mainstream/left-leaning publications?

The front page of the NY Times literally reads, "The shooter, a woman, was shot and killed by the police."  This is false, right?

Likely because the shooter presents female, and they didn't discover their gender identity until recently. Likely that they were in the closet.

[Ferguson97]

The authorities said "transgender female" when someone asked for clarification at the end.  That implies to me that the shooter was born male but identifies as female now.

That would be the correct definition of "transgender female", but I wouldn't exactly expect a police officer in Tennessee to be 100% correct on the terminology.

Based on the evidence so far, it seems like the shooter was born female but identifies as male, which would make them a trans man.

If they were in the closet and still presenting as female, that would be why they were initially mistaken for female.

But I could be wrong. Best to wait for more information.

[Ferguson97]

Obviously the shooting is reprehensible, and the shooter being trans doesn't change that. If there's a hell, they're burning there.

This is very much not obvious. You aren't the judge of people's souls with an understanding of what demons they have faced and what illness afflicts them. I'm so sick of your cringe self-appointment as arbiter of the universe.

I hope her soul finds peace in paradise just as much as the others who perished today. I'm sure she faced many difficulties that led her to this today that I can't begin to imagine.

Well personally I think that "murdered 3 adults and 3 children" is a much better reason for someone to go to Hell than simply having the audacity to be member of a different religion.

[Ferguson97]

The mandatory minimum sentence for mass shooting should be the death penalty.

This is moronic for several reasons, least of all that this particular shooter is now deceased.

[Ferguson97]

Obviously the shooting is reprehensible, and the shooter being trans doesn't change that. If there's a hell, they're burning there.

This is very much not obvious. You aren't the judge of people's souls with an understanding of what demons they have faced and what illness afflicts them. I'm so sick of your cringe self-appointment as arbiter of the universe.

I hope her soul finds peace in paradise just as much as the others who perished today. I'm sure she faced many difficulties that led her to this today that I can't begin to imagine.

Well personally I think that "murdered 3 adults and 3 children" is a much better reason for someone to go to Hell than simply having the audacity to be member of a different religion.

Well, personally, I don't believe that either of those is even close to a valid reason. You don't know anything but less than .01 percent of her life. Don't condemn people you don't know anything about. Weep that she felt the need to act in this manner.  Pray that her soul may be soothed through purgatory and that she - and any who may have first wronged her - can find mutual understanding and appreciation in eternity as we aim towards that same difficult project on earth.

Frankly I don't care if they spent the other 99.99% of their life volunteering at soup kitchens and battered women's shelters. They killed 6 people, including 3 kids. That is what defines them.

Audrey Hale is an evil monster. It doesn't matter if they were cis, a trans man, a trans woman, or whatever. I don't believe in hell, but if there is one - certainly sounds like a prime candidate to me!

[Ferguson97]

That's a misinterpretation of what Christians believe prayer does.  We don't believe that prayer makes bad things never happen.  We aren't pleading God to do what we want Him to do.  We are having a direct line of communication with God when we pray.

You may not believe this, but there are absolutely millions of Christians who really do believe this.

[Ferguson97]

Abortion is unironically good. There are too many kids in America.

What does abortion have to do with this?

[Ferguson97]

You can pry my guns from my cold dead hands you fascist pig.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/usatoday/status/1640490330159042561

God, the replies to this are cancerous. The morons actually think that USAToday is doing this out of respect or whatever and not because, you know, it's a piece of factual information that needs to be corrected. It's no different than when they initially reported the shooter to be a teenager and then found out they were 28.

[Ferguson97]

How lucky are conservatives right now?  Usually they have to sit quietly for a day or two and awkwardly wait for either a counter-narrative to emerge, or if not, just let the story disappear on its own.  But as if by magic, the excuse to throw this story about murdered 9-year olds directly into the trash already presented itself within about three hours; TRANSGENDERS  No need to fix any gun laws when we still have TRANS PEOPLE freely roaming around.

You’re sick.  

Why are you acting like this isn't exactly what conservatives are doing right now?

Don't pretend you care about these dead children when you refuse to support any gun control legislation.

[Ferguson97]

With 3 of the victims being adults, do the authorities think that this was brought about by some kind of personal grudge against the staff?

With many mass shootings personal grudges play a role, so it wouldn't be surprising.

Has it been mentioned if there was anyone who was shot but survived?

No, it seems that everyone who was shot passed away.

That leads me to suspect this person was skilled at hitting their targets and specifically intended to kill who they did.  Which is a horrible thought in terms of the kids.

I've heard reports that one of the children killed was the church's pastor's daughter.  I don't want to speculate too much, but that fact does make me wonder.  But, I'm not sure how a 28 year old would have specific grievances with individual 9 year old kids other than through their families.

I figure the adults (presumably teachers) killed may have been specifically targeted, whereas it's possible that the kids were just collateral damage, unless the daughter was wearing a shirt that said "my father is a pastor" or that shooter knew her personally.

In any case I don't think that we need to necessarily analyze this evil lunatic's actions as if they were in any way rational.

[Ferguson97]

Sincere question for conservatives here: why do you think America is the only developed country where this happens regularly? Are Americans uniquely evil/mentally ill, or is it maybe the fact that there are more guns than people in this country?

[Ferguson97]

Sincere question for conservatives here: why do you think America is the only developed country where this happens regularly? Are Americans uniquely evil/mentally ill, or is it maybe the fact that there are more guns than people in this country?

The wide availability of guns is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition for America's epidemic of violence. You don't see this in Switzerland or Czechia. American society is just deeply broken and it's only getting worse. Insane political, religious, ethnic and culture war (relevant in this case...) polarization, the breakdown of social cohesion, the opioid epidemic, and the massive differences between rich and poor all seem to be relevant factors to me.

...So then yes, Americans are fundamentally worse than non-Americans?

What a grim, pessimistic perspective to have.

[Ferguson97]

The mandatory minimum sentence for mass shooting should be the death penalty.

No.

Give me one good reason why not.

I'll give you 7.

1. The death penalty is not an effective deterrent.

2. The death penalty is more expensive than incarcerating someone for life.

3. There will always be the chance that someone is wrongfully executed.

4. School shooters are (arguably) fundamentally insane, and we should not execute the criminally insane.

5. The state should not choose which of its citizens lives and dies.

6. Mandatory minimums are a fundamentally bad policy.

7. If the death penalty is guarantied, then you're truly giving these people nothing to lose and they might wind up killing even more people.

[Ferguson97]

1. So what would be an effective deterrent for school shooters?

There is no "deterring" them. They're criminally insane and they intend to die while committing their killings.

So Fergie’s point is moot

How? If anything, Dule's argument affirms my point. I'm literally saying that the death penalty won't deter them. If there is no deterring school shooters, then implementing harsher punishment is pointless.

[Ferguson97]

1. So what would be an effective deterrent for school shooters?

There is no "deterring" them. They're criminally insane and they intend to die while committing their killings.

So Fergie’s point is moot

How? If anything, Dule's argument affirms my point. I'm literally saying that the death penalty won't deter them. If there is no deterring school shooters, then implementing harsher punishment is pointless.

Just because it won’t deter them, that doesn’t change the fact that they still need to be appropriately punished for their crimes.

Why is the death penalty more appropriate than life in prison?

[Ferguson97]

1. So what would be an effective deterrent for school shooters?

There is no "deterring" them. They're criminally insane and they intend to die while committing their killings.

So Fergie’s point is moot

How? If anything, Dule's argument affirms my point. I'm literally saying that the death penalty won't deter them. If there is no deterring school shooters, then implementing harsher punishment is pointless.

Just because it won’t deter them, that doesn’t change the fact that they still need to be appropriately punished for their crimes.

Why is the death penalty more appropriate than life in prison?

Because they took the lives of multiple children.

That's not an answer to my question, you're just describing the crime they committed.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/aridrennen/status/1640919786766073856

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1641153584053010450

Wait I'm confused, do we need to ban trans people from the military because they're weak and frail, or because they're too aggressive? Conservatives want to have it both ways.

Trump is such an evil man.