6 dead in shooting at Christian elementary school in Nashville

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Absolutely tragic.  This hits really close to home.

https://twitter.com/ChrisDavisMMJ/status/1640398611136626696

[100% pro-life no matter what]

The shooter was apparently a teenaged girl, which is, uhm, quite a strange profile for a mass shooter?

Wonder if the school was targeted specifically because it was Christian. 

They have updated the description to a 28 year old woman.  Still, it's a less traditional demographic for an act like this.

I certainly hope that isn't the motive (it is affiliated with a PCA Presbyterian church), but it's such a tragedy either way.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

The local authorities did confirm that the shooter was transgender and that they're investigating whether the church and school's views on sexuality and gender identity motivated the attack.

Let's avoid this becoming a flame war on transgender issues.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

The local authorities did confirm that the shooter was transgender and that they're investigating whether the church and school's views on sexuality and gender identity motivated the attack.

Let's avoid this becoming a flame war on transgender issues.

I saw them confirm the name and that Hale was a former student, but can you link the source on them confirming that the shooter was indeed trans?

https://twitter.com/breaking911/status/1640465699305816064?s=46

That said, there’s no indication that the shooter’s gender identity motivated the shooting at all. The manifesto hasn’t been released yet.

Correct, that hasn't been confirmed.  But, they did state that they are reviewing that theory when a reporter asked about it.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

So was the shooter a man or woman? Every report I'm seeing is saying it was a woman, but the individual being identified is a transgender man?

Biological female / born a woman.

So why are they being misgendered everywhere, even in mainstream/left-leaning publications?

The front page of the NY Times literally reads, "The shooter, a woman, was shot and killed by the police."  This is false, right?

My best guess is some combination of :
- Female sounding name (but possibly unisex)
- All old info they found on him indicates a woman, little new info
- Trans but partially in the closet, most people didn't know yet
- It's still really early so we don't have all the information yet

The front page of the NY Times literally reads, "The shooter, a woman, was shot and killed by the police."  This is false, right?

NY Times knows something we don't, or is jumping the gun on gendering the shooter too early, or is deadnaming for some reason?

The authorities said "transgender female" when someone asked for clarification at the end.  That implies to me that the shooter was born male but identifies as female now.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

My point is that Republicans claim that prayer is an answer to shootings and not gun control, but that logic clearly is faulty because there was a shooting at a Christian school that likely has prayer.

You don't have a point, you just made a crass joke that was more offensive than you realized and now you're trying to rationalize it because you hate to lose face. Just say sorry and move on.

It wasn't a joke in the first place it was an observation about how stupid conservative logic is. I don't have a need to save face because unlike you I don't make this board my entire life and have an irrational need to "one up" people I'll never meet. Get a life and move on

That's a misinterpretation of what Christians believe prayer does.  We don't believe that prayer makes bad things never happen.  We aren't pleading God to do what we want Him to do.  We are having a direct line of communication with God when we pray.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

With 3 of the victims being adults, do the authorities think that this was brought about by some kind of personal grudge against the staff?

With many mass shootings personal grudges play a role, so it wouldn't be surprising.

Has it been mentioned if there was anyone who was shot but survived?

No, it seems that everyone who was shot passed away.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

With 3 of the victims being adults, do the authorities think that this was brought about by some kind of personal grudge against the staff?

With many mass shootings personal grudges play a role, so it wouldn't be surprising.

Has it been mentioned if there was anyone who was shot but survived?

No, it seems that everyone who was shot passed away.

That leads me to suspect this person was skilled at hitting their targets and specifically intended to kill who they did.  Which is a horrible thought in terms of the kids.

I've heard reports that one of the children killed was the church's pastor's daughter.  I don't want to speculate too much, but that fact does make me wonder.  But, I'm not sure how a 28 year old would have specific grievances with individual 9 year old kids other than through their families.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

1. So what would be an effective deterrent for school shooters?

There is no "deterring" them. They're criminally insane and they intend to die while committing their killings.

So Fergie’s point is moot

How? If anything, Dule's argument affirms my point. I'm literally saying that the death penalty won't deter them. If there is no deterring school shooters, then implementing harsher punishment is pointless.

Just because it won’t deter them, that doesn’t change the fact that they still need to be appropriately punished for their crimes.

Why is the death penalty more appropriate than life in prison?

Because they took the lives of multiple children.

How would you construct an evidentiary standard that would allow for the execution of mass shooters but avoid wrongful executions with 100% accuracy?

Is there any case where someone was wrongly incarcerated for a school shooting?

So you would say that the death penalty should apply only to mass shootings and nothing else?

I don't hold this position myself, but "exceptionalist" views on the death penalty (only for mass shootings/child murders/crimes committed in wartime/etc.) aren't really that unusual, especially in other countries.

Sure, but my next question was going to be how we define a "mass shooting." When we think of this term, we generally think of a psychopath stalking from room to room with an assault rifle gunning people down, caught on camera from multiple angles, and publishing a manifesto taking credit for the attack. I understand that there's really no credible question of guilt in such cases. But how do we parse out a statutory distinction between that and, say, a drive-by gang shooting with no surveillance footage, in which guilt is not as certain?

Similar to that, when you see people with a tweet or a story about a count of mass shootings in America, it typically uses a much broader definition of a mass shooting than what comes to most of our minds when we hear the term.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Minutes before the attack, the shooter sent a suicide note and warning on Instagram to a middle school basketball teammate.  The two had apparently had little to no contact as adults.

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/she-checked-her-instagram-she-didnt-expect-a-message-from-the-covenant-school-shooter

[100% pro-life no matter what]

https://twitter.com/aridrennen/status/1640919786766073856

Murdoch knows what he's doing.  He always does.

The police even said they're investigating the link between the shooter's gender identity and the school's beliefs as a potential motive.  It's probably imprudent for the news to present that as fact at this point (and the headline is worded to provoke), but that motivation certainly seems like the Occam's Razor explanation at this point.

Honestly, as a Christian in the Nashville area, I feel in my gut that my community was the victim of a hate crime.  And, from talking with others on social media and at a worship and prayer gathering tonight, I'm not alone in that feeling.  BUT, I love how the local community has all come together over the last 36 hours.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Two of the three adults killed were personal friends of Maria Lee, wife to Governor Bill Lee

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11913789/Tennessee-Governor-reveals-Nashville-school-shooting-victim-Cindy-Peak-wifes-best-friend.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_dailymailus