NY: Trump on Trial!

[Torie]

It's time to get back to the case at hand, after an interruption in the usual programming.

One major problem with the Bragg case is mixing and matching state and federal law. Using purported federal violations to extend the SOL for state violations causes considerable skepticism in elite legal circles. But now a new angle is the state bookkeeping fraud was to facilitate state tax fraud, state on state rather than state on federal.

The NYT article does not get very far in the weeds on this, so indulge me while I speculate a bit. Trump seemed to take a phony tax deduction by converting a non-deductible hush money payment into deductible legal services. Cohen converted a non-taxable reimbursement payment into pseudo taxable income for himself, and thus the gross up payment. The state might have ended up net with more tax revenue, but it was attended by fraud and involved switching taxpayers.

Normally a state would not be too motivated to pursue tax fraud where it made money, but nothing about this case is normal. Wheels within wheels within wheels. The new theory is confusingly pleaded, perhaps by design, but soon the prosecution will have to lay its cards on the table, and spill its guts:  

“What is going to happen now is that the prosecutors are obligated to disclose things in discovery,” he said. “Defense counsel will learn in discovery the nature of the elections laws violations and the tax issues that were raised by Mr. Bragg in his statement of facts.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/04/us/politics/trump-bookkeeping-fraud-taxes.html

Falsify business records 1st degree has an intent-requirement

So Trump's intent was to hide the payment to influence the election (campaign violation), or his intent was to gain a tax benefit? Make up your mind . (The idea that the had the intent to gain a tax benefit is quite dubious too. Trump had financial gain in mind when he wrote "legal expenses" in the company's books?)

He wanted to cover up the hush money payment, but the way he did it also happened to be tax fraud.

We are done. I am putting you on ignore. I don't think you post in good faith, and that together with your sharp elbows, make for a negative experience for me.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Alvin Bragg needs weight watchers, that fat idiot didn't visit a buffet he didn't like

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

We can rest easy now Manchin third party run isn't gonna take votes from Biden but from Trump or DeSantis the way they lost WI by 2008/12 margins due to thos indictments

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Alvin Bragg needs weight watchers, that fat idiot didn't visit a buffet he didn't like

So... he's a normal person then??

Like, why would I want to go to a buffet that I didn't like?

[Torie]

It's time to get back to the case at hand, after an interruption in the usual programming.

One major problem with the Bragg case is mixing and matching state and federal law. Using purported federal violations to extend the SOL for state violations causes considerable skepticism in elite legal circles. But now a new angle is the state bookkeeping fraud was to facilitate state tax fraud, state on state rather than state on federal.

The NYT article does not get very far in the weeds on this, so indulge me while I speculate a bit. Trump seemed to take a phony tax deduction by converting a non-deductible hush money payment into deductible legal services. Cohen converted a non-taxable reimbursement payment into pseudo taxable income for himself, and thus the gross up payment. The state might have ended up net with more tax revenue, but it was attended by fraud and involved switching taxpayers.

Normally a state would not be too motivated to pursue tax fraud where it made money, but nothing about this case is normal. Wheels within wheels within wheels. The new theory is confusingly pleaded, perhaps by design, but soon the prosecution will have to lay its cards on the table, and spill its guts:  

“What is going to happen now is that the prosecutors are obligated to disclose things in discovery,” he said. “Defense counsel will learn in discovery the nature of the elections laws violations and the tax issues that were raised by Mr. Bragg in his statement of facts.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/04/us/politics/trump-bookkeeping-fraud-taxes.html

I was really hoping the indictment would involve some allegation of tax fraud.  But going by the statement of facts released by Bragg’s office, it doesn’t.

This might help courtesy of the NYT annotations. The inference drawn by a couple of sources, including the NYT, is that Bragg was trying to hide the ball some, perhaps to give him more flexibility, but the stall tactic won't work for very long, as Trump's lawyers drop discovery on Bragg.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Biden is down 7 no Debt Ceiling and this indictment stuff is helping Trump approvals, Biden has a lackadaisical approach to Debt Ceiling that's showed up last time in the polls, won't negotiate with RS on Debt Ceiling

[Horus]

Alvin Bragg needs weight watchers, that fat idiot didn't visit a buffet he didn't like

Trump is fat and won all the fat states.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Oh my God, can we stop with the weight stuff? Holy sh**t. It contributes less than nothing.

[weatheriscool]

Biden is down 7 no Debt Ceiling and this indictment stuff is helping Trump approvals, Biden has a lackadaisical approach to Debt Ceiling that's showed up last time in the polls, won't negotiate with RS on Debt Ceiling

Biden is in a lose, lose no matter what he does
1. No negotiate = debt ceiling raise and a default. I am willing to bet that this would hurt the republicans more in the general election but that is how bad Republicans are.
2. Negotiate and have massive cuts to social spending  and cuts from hell of food stamps and other safetynet items. The left stays home pissed off.

I think he is doing the best thing he can do. If I was him I'd be more active in talking to the people about what the republicans are doing and hand the republicans the rope.

[ProudModerate2]

One major problem with the Bragg case is mixing and matching state and federal law. Using purported federal violations to extend the SOL for state violations causes considerable skepticism in elite legal circles.
...

I agree with you here.
Bragg interweaving state and federal law is going to muddy the waters (and the right-out legality) of the case. I'm somewhat concerned with this also.

[TheReckoning]

Do you think it is?

[Hermit For Peace]

Trump has done a lot of bad things that should be punished. I wouldn't call that politically motivated. Sounds like justice to me. Of course if I was a Republican I would call it politically motivated because Republicans have lost all credibility with regard to reality.

[Del Tachi]

Ask yourself this:  would the same amount of resources be devoted to this case if Trump wasn't a political candidate?  There's your answer. 

[Stockdale for Veep]

On an additional vote: Kind of funny is that the police listed Trump's height at 6'1 and weight at 270 lbs (!!). Not close to the 6'3 and 239 lbs he claimed. Although that was obvious from the start. That's a BMI close to 36. He's obese big league.

https://www.politicalflare.com/2023/04/the-nypd-weighed-trump-as-part-of-the-booking-process-and-guess-what-trump-doesnt-weigh-239-pounds-and-isnt-63/

Vindication for Jeb!

[GeorgiaModerate]

Ask yourself this:  would the same amount of resources be devoted to this case if Trump wasn't a political candidate?  There's your answer. 

Then clearly it's not, since those resources were dedicated to the case before Trump announced his candidacy.

[Santander]

On an additional vote: Kind of funny is that the police listed Trump's height at 6'1 and weight at 270 lbs (!!). Not close to the 6'3 and 239 lbs he claimed. Although that was obvious from the start. That's a BMI close to 36. He's obese big league.

https://www.politicalflare.com/2023/04/the-nypd-weighed-trump-as-part-of-the-booking-process-and-guess-what-trump-doesnt-weigh-239-pounds-and-isnt-63/

Obviously, he didn't actually weigh 239, but he's an old man and it would be normal for him to have lost a couple inches in height. He probably says he's 6'3" because that was his height when he was younger.

[Crumpets]

petit larceny

Wow, never pegged you for a crypto-Marxist.

[Ferguson97]

Ask yourself this:  would the same amount of resources be devoted to this case if Trump wasn't a political candidate?  There's your answer. 

"If Trump was not running a political campaign, he would not be accused of breaking campaign finance laws."

Wow, really???

[Devout Centrist]

Ask yourself this:  would the same amount of resources be devoted to this case if Trump wasn't a political candidate?  There's your answer. 

I know, and it rules

[All Along The Watchtower]

Ask yourself this:  would the same amount of resources be devoted to this case if Trump wasn't a political candidate?  There's your answer. 

Boo hoo.

[ProudModerate2]

Ask yourself this:  would the same amount of resources be devoted to this case if Trump wasn't a political candidate?  There's your answer. 

"If Trump was not running a political campaign, he would not be accused of breaking campaign finance laws."
Wow, really???

Exactly. It had been said before. Campaign finance laws were made specifically to target politicians and also deals with "political campaigns." Those laws don't target your everyday teenager who did not make a full stop at the stop sign.
Duh.

[Badger]

It's time to get back to the case at hand, after an interruption in the usual programming.

One major problem with the Bragg case is mixing and matching state and federal law. Using purported federal violations to extend the SOL for state violations causes considerable skepticism in elite legal circles. But now a new angle is the state bookkeeping fraud was to facilitate state tax fraud, state on state rather than state on federal.

The NYT article does not get very far in the weeds on this, so indulge me while I speculate a bit. Trump seemed to take a phony tax deduction by converting a non-deductible hush money payment into deductible legal services. Cohen converted a non-taxable reimbursement payment into pseudo taxable income for himself, and thus the gross up payment. The state might have ended up net with more tax revenue, but it was attended by fraud and involved switching taxpayers.

Normally a state would not be too motivated to pursue tax fraud where it made money, but nothing about this case is normal. Wheels within wheels within wheels. The new theory is confusingly pleaded, perhaps by design, but soon the prosecution will have to lay its cards on the table, and spill its guts: 

“What is going to happen now is that the prosecutors are obligated to disclose things in discovery,” he said. “Defense counsel will learn in discovery the nature of the elections laws violations and the tax issues that were raised by Mr. Bragg in his statement of facts.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/04/us/politics/trump-bookkeeping-fraud-taxes.html

Is the New York state statute of limitations for tax fraud longer than the 3 years for the feds?

[Badger]

Oh my God, can we stop with the weight stuff? Holy sh**t. It contributes less than nothing.

Dude, trust me. Just put one or two particular repeat offenders, one in particular, on ignore and your enjoyment level of this thread will skyrocket.

[Badger]

Ask yourself this:  would the same amount of resources be devoted to this case if Trump wasn't a political candidate?  There's your answer. 

You mean if he wasn't running for president? Yes. Unquestionably. If anything his candidacy deters prosecution.

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nytimes/status/1643780608341032960