The 2nd amendment and thoughts of suicide

[Torie]

Based on the facts of this case, I dissent.

https://reason.com/volokh/2023/03/03/should-people-who-attempt-suicide-lose-second-amendment-rights-and-if-so-for-how-long/#more-8225172

Beware that at least in NYS if you try to peacefully assume room temperature, they will snatch your guns away, even if there is zero evidence that they would be used for suicidal purposes.

I might have told the judge that if you take my guns away, I promise you I will commit suicide.

[Ferguson97]

You can have your guns taken away if you commit an act of violence against another person, so I don't see why taking them away when you commit an act of violence against yourself would be any different.

[Torie]

You can have your guns taken away if you commit an act of violence against another person, so I don't see why taking them away when you commit an act of violence against yourself would be any different.

The "act of violence" was hypothermia.

[LBJer]

Laws that prohibit or obstruct suicide or assisted suicide--or mercy killings done at the request of the person being killed--are fundamentally immoral and should be disobeyed. 

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

You can have your guns taken away if you commit an act of violence against another person, so I don't see why taking them away when you commit an act of violence against yourself would be any different.

Yeah, I agree that this seems like a fairly straightforward use of the police power even under strict scrutiny, but who knows with the current Guardian Council?

[Vosem]

You can have your guns taken away if you commit an act of violence against another person, so I don't see why taking them away when you commit an act of violence against yourself would be any different.

Yeah, I agree that this seems like a fairly straightforward use of the police power even under strict scrutiny, but who knows with the current Guardian Council?

I'm...really not sure that it does seem like a straightforward use of the police power? It seems like an infringement of a really expressly granted right which isn't even happening in reaction to alleged lawbreaking. To be fair here most states do restrict gun ownership by those found by a court to have a serious mental condition; the definition for this varies state-by-state, but giffords.org (an anti-gun activist website) summarizes the federal Gun Control Act of 1968's mental health provisions, meant to be a template for states, as follows:

• Has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to be a danger to self or others, or to “lack[] the mental capacity to contract or manage [their] own affairs,” as a result of their mental condition or illness (This prohibition also expressly applies when a person has been found incompetent to stand trial or not guilty of a crime due to mental incapacity)
• Has been involuntarily hospitalized or committed to a mental health or substance abuse treatment facility by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. (This prohibition does not apply when a person is admitted for treatment voluntarily or when a person is only hospitalized for short-term observation without longer-term commitment or court-ordered treatment.)

This really does not seem like it includes 'suicide attempt', and it definitely doesn't seem like it applies to this case, where there is no diagnosis of a mental health condition, no treatment for a mental health condition, and where the court explicitly refused to label the defendant as mentally ill. I don't know what New York's specific gun rights legislation says, but it should be noted that New York has experienced defeats regarding the stringency of its gun rights legislation in federal courts recently.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

You can have your guns taken away if you commit an act of violence against another person, so I don't see why taking them away when you commit an act of violence against yourself would be any different.

Yeah, I agree that this seems like a fairly straightforward use of the police power even under strict scrutiny, but who knows with the current Guardian Council?

I'm...really not sure that it does seem like a straightforward use of the police power? It seems like an infringement of a really expressly granted right which isn't even happening in reaction to alleged lawbreaking. To be fair here most states do restrict gun ownership by those found by a court to have a serious mental condition; the definition for this varies state-by-state, but giffords.org (an anti-gun activist website) summarizes the federal Gun Control Act of 1968's mental health provisions, meant to be a template for states, as follows:

• Has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to be a danger to self or others, or to “lack[] the mental capacity to contract or manage [their] own affairs,” as a result of their mental condition or illness (This prohibition also expressly applies when a person has been found incompetent to stand trial or not guilty of a crime due to mental incapacity)
• Has been involuntarily hospitalized or committed to a mental health or substance abuse treatment facility by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. (This prohibition does not apply when a person is admitted for treatment voluntarily or when a person is only hospitalized for short-term observation without longer-term commitment or court-ordered treatment.)

This really does not seem like it includes 'suicide attempt', and it definitely doesn't seem like it applies to this case, where there is no diagnosis of a mental health condition, no treatment for a mental health condition, and where the court explicitly refused to label the defendant as mentally ill. I don't know what New York's specific gun rights legislation says, but it should be noted that New York has experienced defeats regarding the stringency of its gun rights legislation in federal courts recently.

I might need to reread the statute being impugned, or, rather, the facts of this case. It's possible I misunderstood it pretty badly.