What are the "liberal Protestant" denominations?
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  What are the "liberal Protestant" denominations?
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King of Kensington
Junior Chimp
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« on: February 26, 2023, 02:45:11 AM »

I assume liberal Protestants are mainline but not all mainline are liberal Protestants.  So it would be Episcopalians and Congregationalists but not say, Methodists.

(I realize there's variation within them).
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2023, 01:36:41 PM »
« Edited: February 26, 2023, 01:55:27 PM by Skill and Chance »

Generally, yes, it's the liturgical traditions that go back to the 19th century or earlier that have liberalized the most.  Many of the most liberal (Congregationalists, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, etc.) are former Calvinists* (predestination of "the Elect') who reacted against the extremes of the English Civil War and colonial New England.  In general, the church leadership in these denominations became more liberal earlier than the majority of parishioners.  The Methodists today are split between a clearly liberal-leaning clergy and clearly conservative-leaning membership.  Interestingly, we also see this playing out with the Salvation Army, which has close historic ties to Methodism.  A minority of conservative Lutherans have also split off (LCMS and WELS).

Anglicanism/Episcopalianism also tends to be very liberal, at least in the West.  Their dynamic is a bit different, but due to the church's clearly political origins and the fact that it broke off in an era when most people could easily read and understand the political motivation behind it, it seems to have always struggled with cynicism.

Keep in mind that many of these churches were established by the local government in the distant past (including the Congregationalists in pre-Civil War Massachusetts!), making it especially likely that many adherents weren't sincere.  Over an even longer time period, being a high church Protestant remained a prerequisite for a successful political career.

*Interestingly, those who remain Calvinist/predestinarian today tend to be quite conservative, including the Dutch Reformed, many Baptists and some of thee non-denominational Evangelical churches.  The proportion of US Christians who are Calvinists is now about 25% and has grown meaningfully as the Mainline and Catholicism declined.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2023, 08:26:01 AM »

Generally, yes, it's the liturgical traditions that go back to the 19th century or earlier that have liberalized the most.  Many of the most liberal (Congregationalists, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, etc.) are former Calvinists* (predestination of "the Elect') who reacted against the extremes of the English Civil War and colonial New England.  In general, the church leadership in these denominations became more liberal earlier than the majority of parishioners.  The Methodists today are split between a clearly liberal-leaning clergy and clearly conservative-leaning membership.  Interestingly, we also see this playing out with the Salvation Army, which has close historic ties to Methodism.  A minority of conservative Lutherans have also split off (LCMS and WELS).

Anglicanism/Episcopalianism also tends to be very liberal, at least in the West.  Their dynamic is a bit different, but due to the church's clearly political origins and the fact that it broke off in an era when most people could easily read and understand the political motivation behind it, it seems to have always struggled with cynicism.

Keep in mind that many of these churches were established by the local government in the distant past (including the Congregationalists in pre-Civil War Massachusetts!), making it especially likely that many adherents weren't sincere.  Over an even longer time period, being a high church Protestant remained a prerequisite for a successful political career.

*Interestingly, those who remain Calvinist/predestinarian today tend to be quite conservative, including the Dutch Reformed, many Baptists and some of thee non-denominational Evangelical churches.  The proportion of US Christians who are Calvinists is now about 25% and has grown meaningfully as the Mainline and Catholicism declined.

Is the Calvinist proportion actually that high?

I have legitimately never met a single religious person who described themselves as a Calvinist or endorsed theological ideas like predestination that are big in Calvinism.

Granted, I'm from a very Catholic town originally with barely any Protestants, and my religious friends are either Episcopalian, Catholic or Jewish, so it's totally possible I'm just in a non-Calvinist "bubble"
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2023, 09:34:30 AM »

Generally, yes, it's the liturgical traditions that go back to the 19th century or earlier that have liberalized the most.  Many of the most liberal (Congregationalists, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, etc.) are former Calvinists* (predestination of "the Elect') who reacted against the extremes of the English Civil War and colonial New England.  In general, the church leadership in these denominations became more liberal earlier than the majority of parishioners.  The Methodists today are split between a clearly liberal-leaning clergy and clearly conservative-leaning membership.  Interestingly, we also see this playing out with the Salvation Army, which has close historic ties to Methodism.  A minority of conservative Lutherans have also split off (LCMS and WELS).

Anglicanism/Episcopalianism also tends to be very liberal, at least in the West.  Their dynamic is a bit different, but due to the church's clearly political origins and the fact that it broke off in an era when most people could easily read and understand the political motivation behind it, it seems to have always struggled with cynicism.

Keep in mind that many of these churches were established by the local government in the distant past (including the Congregationalists in pre-Civil War Massachusetts!), making it especially likely that many adherents weren't sincere.  Over an even longer time period, being a high church Protestant remained a prerequisite for a successful political career.

*Interestingly, those who remain Calvinist/predestinarian today tend to be quite conservative, including the Dutch Reformed, many Baptists and some of thee non-denominational Evangelical churches.  The proportion of US Christians who are Calvinists is now about 25% and has grown meaningfully as the Mainline and Catholicism declined.

Is the Calvinist proportion actually that high?

I have legitimately never met a single religious person who described themselves as a Calvinist or endorsed theological ideas like predestination that are big in Calvinism.

Granted, I'm from a very Catholic town originally with barely any Protestants, and my religious friends are either Episcopalian, Catholic or Jewish, so it's totally possible I'm just in a non-Calvinist "bubble"

There are virtually no Calvinists left in the Northeast.  It's a Southern/Midwestern thing now.  In 2010, about 1/3rd of Protestant pastors identified themselves as teaching Calvinism/predestination to their congregations, and they have gained as a share of Christians since then.
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2023, 01:27:14 PM »
« Edited: March 02, 2023, 11:14:36 AM by Command of what? There's no one here. »

Theological liberalism is a solvent that erodes a lot of the traditional distinctions between different forms of Protestantism--confessional Lutheran and confessional Calvinist theology are pretty distinct, whereas what you'd find preached at an ELCA church and a PCUSA church in the same town would likely not be--so I think it makes more sense to think of liberal Protestant views as prevalent to different extents within denominations, rather than of there being "liberal Protestant denominations" as such. Probably the Episcopal Church and the United Church of Christ are the ones where theological liberals are the most firmly in the driver's seat in the United States right now, but even then you can find conservative UCC congregations (some even in rural New England, fighting the long defeat) and conservative Episcopalian dioceses (Albany actually is one, to the point that the TEC diocese will occasionally stake out a stance to the right of the RC diocese even on culture war issues). When the UMC schism is complete the liberal side of that will probably be roughly in the same tier.
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2023, 10:35:11 AM »

Theological liberalism is a solvent that erodes a lot of the traditional distinctions between different forms of Protestantism--confessional Lutheran and confessional Calvinist theology are pretty distinct, whereas what you'd find preached at an ELCA church and a PCUSA church in the same town would likely not be--so I think it makes more sense to think of liberal Protestant views as prevalent to different extents within denominations, rather than of there being "liberal Protestant denominations" as such. Probably the Episcopal Church and the United Church of Christ are the ones where theological liberals are the most firmly in the driver's seat in the United States right now, but even then you can find conservative UCC congregations (some even in rural New England, fighting the long defeat) and conservative Episcopalian dioceses (Albany actually is one, to the point that the TEC diocese will occasionally stake out a stance to the right of the RC diocese even on cultural war issues). When the UMC schism is complete the liberal side of that will probably be roughly in the same tier.

I'm very curious about conservative UCC denominations; are they perhaps more conservative in New England than elsewhere? I know in Unitarianism congregations in New England tend to be more traditional and Christian-oriented; not conservative per se but not as aggressively liberal since Unitarianism outside of New England is a religion you join if you're a spiritually concerned liberal.

I know the UCC church in my hometown is famously left-leaning; during the 2007 Christmas parade they made their float an anti-Iraq protest and people threw rocks at them.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2023, 08:16:35 AM »

Theological liberalism is a solvent that erodes a lot of the traditional distinctions between different forms of Protestantism--confessional Lutheran and confessional Calvinist theology are pretty distinct, whereas what you'd find preached at an ELCA church and a PCUSA church in the same town would likely not be--so I think it makes more sense to think of liberal Protestant views as prevalent to different extents within denominations, rather than of there being "liberal Protestant denominations" as such. Probably the Episcopal Church and the United Church of Christ are the ones where theological liberals are the most firmly in the driver's seat in the United States right now, but even then you can find conservative UCC congregations (some even in rural New England, fighting the long defeat) and conservative Episcopalian dioceses (Albany actually is one, to the point that the TEC diocese will occasionally stake out a stance to the right of the RC diocese even on cultural war issues). When the UMC schism is complete the liberal side of that will probably be roughly in the same tier.

I'm very curious about conservative UCC denominations; are they perhaps more conservative in New England than elsewhere? I know in Unitarianism congregations in New England tend to be more traditional and Christian-oriented; not conservative per se but not as aggressively liberal since Unitarianism outside of New England is a religion you join if you're a spiritually concerned liberal.

I know the UCC church in my hometown is famously left-leaning; during the 2007 Christmas parade they made their float an anti-Iraq protest and people threw rocks at them.

My guess is that since New England has had UCC and Unitarian churches for much longer, there's a fraction of congregants who aren't particularly liberal but still attend due to their family/friends, or due to having a community.

Wheras in other parts of the country those churches are mostly made up of converts from other denominations who are more specifically seeking a more left-leaning environment.
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vitoNova
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2023, 01:07:24 AM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2023, 01:38:09 PM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2023, 08:31:28 PM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 

This reminds me how the slogan of the local UU church where I live is "A Place to Connect, Grow and Serve," which honestly sounds more corporate than actual corporate networking organizations I've been a part of.

Nice people, but I just don't see the point of a parish like that.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2023, 05:47:19 PM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 

This reminds me how the slogan of the local UU church where I live is "A Place to Connect, Grow and Serve," which honestly sounds more corporate than actual corporate networking organizations I've been a part of.

Nice people, but I just don't see the point of a parish like that.

Agreed.  If you aren't actually seeking forgiveness of sin, what is the point of it all?

*Ironically, this could apply as much to certain Calvinist fundamentalists as it does to UU's.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2023, 12:58:06 PM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 

This reminds me how the slogan of the local UU church where I live is "A Place to Connect, Grow and Serve," which honestly sounds more corporate than actual corporate networking organizations I've been a part of.

Nice people, but I just don't see the point of a parish like that.

Agreed.  If you aren't actually seeking forgiveness of sin, what is the point of it all?

*Ironically, this could apply as much to certain Calvinist fundamentalists as it does to UU's.

True. Another way that I tend to look at it is: If you're not trying to seek holiness (which means many different things to different people), and not encouraged to do so much, then what are you gaining from a church?

It's ironic that you mention Calvinists as the flip side of UUs. The local Presbyterian churches to where I am are a very close second in terms of "functionally agnostic" communities behind the UUs. A very strong split from their Calvinist roots, I think.
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2023, 03:08:57 PM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 

This reminds me how the slogan of the local UU church where I live is "A Place to Connect, Grow and Serve," which honestly sounds more corporate than actual corporate networking organizations I've been a part of.

Nice people, but I just don't see the point of a parish like that.

Agreed.  If you aren't actually seeking forgiveness of sin, what is the point of it all?

*Ironically, this could apply as much to certain Calvinist fundamentalists as it does to UU's.

True. Another way that I tend to look at it is: If you're not trying to seek holiness (which means many different things to different people), and not encouraged to do so much, then what are you gaining from a church?

It's ironic that you mention Calvinists as the flip side of UUs. The local Presbyterian churches to where I am are a very close second in terms of "functionally agnostic" communities behind the UUs. A very strong split from their Calvinist roots, I think.

My only litmus test for what makes a Christian denomination is the affirmation of the Trinity. UU's do not affirm the Trinity; therefore I cannot consider them Christian. This also goes for Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

And any Christian church that doesn't preach the need for repentance and forgiveness, liberal or conservative, is preaching a dead gospel.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2023, 05:25:03 PM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 

This reminds me how the slogan of the local UU church where I live is "A Place to Connect, Grow and Serve," which honestly sounds more corporate than actual corporate networking organizations I've been a part of.

Nice people, but I just don't see the point of a parish like that.

Agreed.  If you aren't actually seeking forgiveness of sin, what is the point of it all?

*Ironically, this could apply as much to certain Calvinist fundamentalists as it does to UU's.

True. Another way that I tend to look at it is: If you're not trying to seek holiness (which means many different things to different people), and not encouraged to do so much, then what are you gaining from a church?

It's ironic that you mention Calvinists as the flip side of UUs. The local Presbyterian churches to where I am are a very close second in terms of "functionally agnostic" communities behind the UUs. A very strong split from their Calvinist roots, I think.

Interesting point.  In my comment on extreme Calvinists, I was thinking more of the Primitive Baptists, who while still very culturally conservative, have gone to the theological extreme that salvation is 100% predetermined before we were born.  Therefore, the purpose of prayer and preaching is only to comfort us.  It's horseshoe theory with the UU's! 
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2023, 09:29:37 PM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 

This reminds me how the slogan of the local UU church where I live is "A Place to Connect, Grow and Serve," which honestly sounds more corporate than actual corporate networking organizations I've been a part of.

Nice people, but I just don't see the point of a parish like that.

Agreed.  If you aren't actually seeking forgiveness of sin, what is the point of it all?

*Ironically, this could apply as much to certain Calvinist fundamentalists as it does to UU's.

True. Another way that I tend to look at it is: If you're not trying to seek holiness (which means many different things to different people), and not encouraged to do so much, then what are you gaining from a church?

It's ironic that you mention Calvinists as the flip side of UUs. The local Presbyterian churches to where I am are a very close second in terms of "functionally agnostic" communities behind the UUs. A very strong split from their Calvinist roots, I think.

My only litmus test for what makes a Christian denomination is the affirmation of the Trinity. UU's do not affirm the Trinity; therefore I cannot consider them Christian. This also goes for Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

And any Christian church that doesn't preach the need for repentance and forgiveness, liberal or conservative, is preaching a dead gospel.

Can't agree with that more!
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Nathan
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2023, 09:54:52 PM »

Theological liberalism is a solvent that erodes a lot of the traditional distinctions between different forms of Protestantism--confessional Lutheran and confessional Calvinist theology are pretty distinct, whereas what you'd find preached at an ELCA church and a PCUSA church in the same town would likely not be--so I think it makes more sense to think of liberal Protestant views as prevalent to different extents within denominations, rather than of there being "liberal Protestant denominations" as such. Probably the Episcopal Church and the United Church of Christ are the ones where theological liberals are the most firmly in the driver's seat in the United States right now, but even then you can find conservative UCC congregations (some even in rural New England, fighting the long defeat) and conservative Episcopalian dioceses (Albany actually is one, to the point that the TEC diocese will occasionally stake out a stance to the right of the RC diocese even on cultural war issues). When the UMC schism is complete the liberal side of that will probably be roughly in the same tier.

I'm very curious about conservative UCC denominations; are they perhaps more conservative in New England than elsewhere? I know in Unitarianism congregations in New England tend to be more traditional and Christian-oriented; not conservative per se but not as aggressively liberal since Unitarianism outside of New England is a religion you join if you're a spiritually concerned liberal.

I know the UCC church in my hometown is famously left-leaning; during the 2007 Christmas parade they made their float an anti-Iraq protest and people threw rocks at them.

My guess is that since New England has had UCC and Unitarian churches for much longer, there's a fraction of congregants who aren't particularly liberal but still attend due to their family/friends, or due to having a community.

Wheras in other parts of the country those churches are mostly made up of converts from other denominations who are more specifically seeking a more left-leaning environment.

I don't know if I'd say that the UCC is as a whole less liberal in New England than elsewhere, but for the "Faithful and Welcoming" (an opposite euphemism to "Open and Affirming") congregations that are in New England that is why they exist, yeah. South Royalton, Vermont has one that's well-known and deeply rooted locally, which I keep meaning to check out for its lovely architecture but where I doubt I'd particularly enjoy sitting through a service. Maybe someday.
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2023, 08:47:06 PM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 

This reminds me how the slogan of the local UU church where I live is "A Place to Connect, Grow and Serve," which honestly sounds more corporate than actual corporate networking organizations I've been a part of.

Nice people, but I just don't see the point of a parish like that.

Agreed.  If you aren't actually seeking forgiveness of sin, what is the point of it all?

*Ironically, this could apply as much to certain Calvinist fundamentalists as it does to UU's.

True. Another way that I tend to look at it is: If you're not trying to seek holiness (which means many different things to different people), and not encouraged to do so much, then what are you gaining from a church?

It's ironic that you mention Calvinists as the flip side of UUs. The local Presbyterian churches to where I am are a very close second in terms of "functionally agnostic" communities behind the UUs. A very strong split from their Calvinist roots, I think.

A lot of denominations like Presbyterians, Anglicans/Episcopalians, and Lutherans have split into more conservative denominations and more progressive ones.  Like, a PCA church and a PCUSA church aren't going to agree on much beyond the Presbyterian name and (probably) having a similar structure and style to the worship.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2023, 03:12:54 AM »
« Edited: March 16, 2023, 03:16:57 AM by All Along The Watchtower »

confessional Lutheran and confessional Calvinist theology are pretty distinct, whereas what you'd find preached at an ELCA church and a PCUSA church in the same town would likely not be

Historically, didn’t this confessional vs. less confessional division within American Protestantism broadly map on to Democrats vs Republicans, respectively? (outside of the Solid South, of course.)

Important difference, of course, being that the “less confessional” Protestants way back when were far more fervently religious and indeed, evangelical than a lot of what we see within liberal Protestantism today.

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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2023, 10:55:00 AM »

The Disciples of Christ is quite liberal although much of the membership (which skews very old) are probably Republican voters. As a denomination it will barely exist in 20 years. Quite sad really, it used to be the dominant protestant sect in much of Indiana and Kentucky. My pastor is well to the left of me and I assume most of the other members of our church.
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2023, 10:19:20 PM »

confessional Lutheran and confessional Calvinist theology are pretty distinct, whereas what you'd find preached at an ELCA church and a PCUSA church in the same town would likely not be

Historically, didn’t this confessional vs. less confessional division within American Protestantism broadly map on to Democrats vs Republicans, respectively? (outside of the Solid South, of course.)

Important difference, of course, being that the “less confessional” Protestants way back when were far more fervently religious and indeed, evangelical than a lot of what we see within liberal Protestantism today.

There were specific confessional groups that were heavily Republican, most famously Methodists very early on in the GOP's existence, but generally yes.
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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2023, 05:31:53 PM »

An interesting comparison of Mainline* denominations by political orientation from Pew.  Note Pew rounds weird, so some won't add up ... I am but the messenger:

Congregationalist (UCC): 58% DEM, 31% GOP, 11% IND
Episcopalian: 49% DEM, 39% GOP, 12% IND
Lutheran (ELCA): 47% DEM, 43% GOP, 10% IND
Presbyterian (USA): 47% DEM, 44% GOP, 10% IND
Baptist (USA): 42% DEM, 41% GOP, 16% IND
Methodist (United): 54% GOP, 35% DEM, 11% IND
Anglican: 58% GOP, 37% DEM, 5% IND
Lutheran (Missouri Synod): 59% GOP, 27% DEM, 14% IND
Presbyterian (PCA): 60% GOP, 34% DEM, 6% IND

And for some comparison with other Christian groups:

Historically Black Protestant (All Groups): 80% DEM, 10% GOP, 10% IND
Orthodox: 44% DEM, 34% GOP, 22% IND
Catholic: 44% DEM, 37% GOP, 19% IND
Restorationist (Church of Christ): 50% GOP, 39% DEM, 11% IND
Pentecostal (Assemblies of God): 57% GOP, 27% DEM, 17% IND
Baptist (Southern): 64% GOP, 26% DEM, 10% IND
Non-Denominational Evangelical: 69% GOP, 18% DEM, 12% IND
Mormon (LDS): 71% GOP, 18% DEM, 11% IND

* I do not care how Pew defines these, haha.  I went to a Missouri Synod church when I was younger (I have gone to an ELCA one for 20+ years now), and absolutely nobody felt more in common with some Baptist than an ELCA Lutheran ... it's frickin' Mainline, period.
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2023, 09:59:17 AM »

Universalist Unitarian? 

I attended one of their church services in college as part of a journalism project.  Half the dudes wanted to bang my brains out right then and there (the THIRST WAS REAL).  The other half refused to speak to me at all (they probably had government jobs with clearances and probably thought I was with DHS. lol)

UU is explicitly non-Christian at this point, so they don't really fit in this category.  They are probably closest to historical Deism. 

This reminds me how the slogan of the local UU church where I live is "A Place to Connect, Grow and Serve," which honestly sounds more corporate than actual corporate networking organizations I've been a part of.

Nice people, but I just don't see the point of a parish like that.

Agreed.  If you aren't actually seeking forgiveness of sin, what is the point of it all?

*Ironically, this could apply as much to certain Calvinist fundamentalists as it does to UU's.

The two kinds of people who generally go to UU churches are 1) Christians who were/are too liberal for their original churches and 2) atheists who want some part of the experience of church (the community, the children’s education programs - we have great sex ed! - etc). I guess a third group would be agnostics who want a community where you can maybe believe in God or not. Historically a lot of interfaith couples have attended UU, especially to raise their kids in, but I don’t think that happens as much anymore.

FWIW, the first UU church I started going to is one of the biggest, most well-known, most vibrant, and (perhaps until there was some controversy a few years ago involving the ministers) one of the most racially diverse. The one I go to now is exactly like a mainline Protestant church but they say “Spirit” or “Source” instead of God and Jesus. If that had been my first experience with UUism I probably would have still stuck it out, but I’d definitely be much less hooked.
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vitoNova
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2023, 11:36:32 AM »

UU attendees are like 90% gay dudes in their 40s and 50s.

With a lesbian pastor. 

At least, that was the case in Fredericksburg, Virginia.
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100% pro-life no matter what
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2023, 12:19:51 PM »

An interesting comparison of Mainline* denominations by political orientation from Pew.  Note Pew rounds weird, so some won't add up ... I am but the messenger:

Congregationalist (UCC): 58% DEM, 31% GOP, 11% IND
Episcopalian: 49% DEM, 39% GOP, 12% IND
Lutheran (ELCA): 47% DEM, 43% GOP, 10% IND
Presbyterian (USA): 47% DEM, 44% GOP, 10% IND
Baptist (USA): 42% DEM, 41% GOP, 16% IND
Methodist (United): 54% GOP, 35% DEM, 11% IND
Anglican: 58% GOP, 37% DEM, 5% IND
Lutheran (Missouri Synod): 59% GOP, 27% DEM, 14% IND
Presbyterian (PCA): 60% GOP, 34% DEM, 6% IND

And for some comparison with other Christian groups:

Historically Black Protestant (All Groups): 80% DEM, 10% GOP, 10% IND
Orthodox: 44% DEM, 34% GOP, 22% IND
Catholic: 44% DEM, 37% GOP, 19% IND
Restorationist (Church of Christ): 50% GOP, 39% DEM, 11% IND
Pentecostal (Assemblies of God): 57% GOP, 27% DEM, 17% IND
Baptist (Southern): 64% GOP, 26% DEM, 10% IND
Non-Denominational Evangelical: 69% GOP, 18% DEM, 12% IND
Mormon (LDS): 71% GOP, 18% DEM, 11% IND

* I do not care how Pew defines these, haha.  I went to a Missouri Synod church when I was younger (I have gone to an ELCA one for 20+ years now), and absolutely nobody felt more in common with some Baptist than an ELCA Lutheran ... it's frickin' Mainline, period.

For what it's worth, your experience might be valid in terms of your LCMS church, but the PCA people I've known are much more plugged in with the broader evangelical community than with a PCUSA church.  It might be a regional thing, though, especially in areas with weaker mainline churches and stronger evangelical ones.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2023, 01:05:28 PM »

UU attendees are like 90% gay dudes in their 40s and 50s.

With a lesbian pastor. 

At least, that was the case in Fredericksburg, Virginia.


This reminds me of an interesting thing I've noticed for some time: religious LGBTQ are predominantly male. My Episcopalian church has a significant population of gay men but not gay women, trans people or others.

Has anyone found a sociological reason for this? It goes against my (I suppose stereotypical) observation that women tend to be more religious on balance than man.
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