Meanwhile in North USA Tik Tok Drama.

[RFK 2024]

Banning TikTok won't address all the American social media giants that are also stealing our data.  Plus afaik U.S. data is actually stored in an American server, and is inaccessible by the Chinese government.  Hugely overblown scandal, as we saw with that laughably cringe congressional hearing.

[CumbrianLefty]

Wikipedia exists, and is much more accurate than TikTok. Also, ideally the public school system would be flooded with money to New Jersey levels at a minimum.

I know what you mean, but its easy for the initiated to spot errors in Wikipedia *all the time*.

(even some pretty basic ones)

[It’s so Joever]

Oh fun fact. Biden was desperately begging some tiktok influencers I know to spread pro-Ukraine messaging and inform their audience just last year. Obviously I support this move but it’s funny how the senile vegetable now has flip flopped all of a sudden. And then the House Dems had “grassroots” campaign messages and gotv efforts on the app throughout 2022. What made them change their stances? Definitely wouldn’t be Meta buying them off…right?
At least Trump and the GOP are consistently terrible!

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Oh fun fact. Biden was desperately begging some tiktok influencers I know to spread pro-Ukraine messaging and inform their audience just last year. Obviously I support this move but it’s funny how the senile vegetable now has flip flopped all of a sudden. And then the House Dems had “grassroots” campaign messages and gotv efforts on the app throughout 2022. What made them change their stances? Definitely wouldn’t be Meta buying them off…right?
At least Trump and the GOP are consistently terrible!

Democrats should make use of Tiktok again in 2024. A tool is a tool is a tool, especially when the people using it are in many cases tools themselves.

[It’s so Joever]

Oh fun fact. Biden was desperately begging some tiktok influencers I know to spread pro-Ukraine messaging and inform their audience just last year. Obviously I support this move but it’s funny how the senile vegetable now has flip flopped all of a sudden. And then the House Dems had “grassroots” campaign messages and gotv efforts on the app throughout 2022. What made them change their stances? Definitely wouldn’t be Meta buying them off…right?
At least Trump and the GOP are consistently terrible!

Democrats should make use of Tiktok again in 2024. A tool is a tool is a tool, especially when the people using it are in many cases tools themselves.

See, this is the actual progressive stance. Using this technology to help challenge the Murdoch monopoly instead of yknow, just letting FOX define the narrative like they usually do. It worked well in 2022 honestly, and I’m just shocked red and maroon avs on here don’t seem to be drawing the dots between the sudden support for a tiktok ban and the fact that young voters turning out nullified the red wave. It’s pretty blatant and a very smart move by the GOP.

[RFK 2024]

100% agree here.  TikTok is the largest platform right now on social media.  Not campaigning on it is missing out on a huge audience, despite any security concerns that exist.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It’s funny. Short term videos are literally just a combination of memes and long term videos. Yet you see none of the millennial avocado clutchers or any of the “pick me” intellectuals on here ever get upset about either of the other two because they grew up with them in their teen/college years and whatever they grew up with is okay.

This is genuinely the same s**t the formerly liberal boomers fell into and I can’t believe y’all are this stupid to fall for it. It’s like watching a motherf**king train wreck when I see y’all slowly become Fuzzy.

I can only speak for myself, but I think the "educational" qualities of long-form video are overestimated as well.

[Хahar 🤔]

It’s funny. Short term videos are literally just a combination of memes and long term videos. Yet you see none of the millennial avocado clutchers or any of the “pick me” intellectuals on here ever get upset about either of the other two because they grew up with them in their teen/college years and whatever they grew up with is okay.

This is genuinely the same s**t the formerly liberal boomers fell into and I can’t believe y’all are this stupid to fall for it. It’s like watching a motherf**king train wreck when I see y’all slowly become Fuzzy.

I can only speak for myself, but I think the "educational" qualities of long-form video are overestimated as well.

The attempted generational warfare angle here is moronic, of course. There has been plenty written about the tendency of the YouTube recommendation engine to steer users into right-wing extremist content. The problem specifically with short-form video is that it's entirely dependent on the recommendation engine.

Algorithmically generated content melts your brain. You can see the way BRTD gets mad periodically at people he wouldn't know existed without the Twitter algorithm or the way the last decade of JK Rowling's life has gone. I don't use Twitter or TikTok because I think it's really important for everyone to minimize exposure to algorithmically generated content as much as possible.

A few months ago I was driving my family home from a social event. My mom was in the back seat and she decided to pass the time looking at Facebook Reels, which are the exact same thing except on Facebook. I was in the driver's seat just listening and I was horrified at the string of totally dissociated sounds and images playing for half an hour with no sign that it would ever stop. When we got home, I and my brother both told her that this was addicting and without value and that she needed to stop before she became further addicted. I don't know if she did stop but at very least she doesn't do it around us anymore.

There's a disturbing phenomenon I've observed at work, which is that people seem to think that in the bathroom it's just fine to be watching TikTok (or whatever equivalent) out loud with no headphones. Hearing constant context-free snippets of music while you poop is distracting, but more than that it's disturbing to see the state of catatonia that this puts users in to the extent that they don't even think about whether using in public is acceptable.

As you observed previously in this thread, the problem isn't just TikTok, because Google and Facebook do exactly the same thing. In my work I don't primarily deal with video monetization and when I do it's long-form rather than short-form video, but it's hard not to feel like I'm dealing opiates.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

YouTube has loads of channels that show how to make educational content in a productive way and often relatively short videos as well. PBS is actually really good at this with their Storied channel.

Here's another example of a great such channel:

This is not really possible in a TikTok format and the notion that TikTok is vital to educational is downright laughable.

[It’s so Joever]

YouTube has loads of channels that show how to make educational content in a productive way and often relatively short videos as well. PBS is actually really good at this with their Storied channel.

Here's another example of a great such channel:

This is not really possible in a TikTok format and the notion that TikTok is vital to educational is downright laughable.

This is the stupidest statement I have seen. You do realize that f**king Hank Green from CrashCourse, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and even literal politicians (Jeff Jackson) have used tiktok to educate young audiences and reach out to people quickly who otherwise may have not been reached, right?

Who am I kidding the only thing you know about tiktok is probably from a Family Guy skit and what someone said in a Mosh Pit while you were staring at their feet.

Short form videos don’t transmit as much information per video, but they reach FAR more people and more can be made quickly. It’s basically like the difference between Das Kapital and the Manifesto if you really want an analogy.

Also the ease of the making of a tiktok video means that even older experts who are less versed in tech and are time constrained (such as some of the people I mentioned) can still get their ideas out to possibly millions.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Oh fun fact. Biden was desperately begging some tiktok influencers I know to spread pro-Ukraine messaging and inform their audience just last year. Obviously I support this move but it’s funny how the senile vegetable now has flip flopped all of a sudden. And then the House Dems had “grassroots” campaign messages and gotv efforts on the app throughout 2022. What made them change their stances? Definitely wouldn’t be Meta buying them off…right?
At least Trump and the GOP are consistently terrible!

Democrats should make use of Tiktok again in 2024. A tool is a tool is a tool, especially when the people using it are in many cases tools themselves.

See, this is the actual progressive stance. Using this technology to help challenge the Murdoch monopoly instead of yknow, just letting FOX define the narrative like they usually do. It worked well in 2022 honestly, and I’m just shocked red and maroon avs on here don’t seem to be drawing the dots between the sudden support for a tiktok ban and the fact that young voters turning out nullified the red wave. It’s pretty blatant and a very smart move by the GOP.

I agree that it is poor form from a strategic point of view.
I do in fact have a negative opinion towards Tiktok itself, but banning it is an atrocious decision on many levels - saying this as someone who does not usually watch short-form content. I've spoken to fellow young people and they think the whole narrative around this is b***. One mentioned the hearings and said members of Congress looked so dumb.
It would be more reasonable to ask for changes in how they operate, I could get behind that quite easily. Banning it is another issue altogether.
A lot of this feels at least fairly hysterical anyway.

[It’s so Joever]

Oh fun fact. Biden was desperately begging some tiktok influencers I know to spread pro-Ukraine messaging and inform their audience just last year. Obviously I support this move but it’s funny how the senile vegetable now has flip flopped all of a sudden. And then the House Dems had “grassroots” campaign messages and gotv efforts on the app throughout 2022. What made them change their stances? Definitely wouldn’t be Meta buying them off…right?
At least Trump and the GOP are consistently terrible!

Democrats should make use of Tiktok again in 2024. A tool is a tool is a tool, especially when the people using it are in many cases tools themselves.

See, this is the actual progressive stance. Using this technology to help challenge the Murdoch monopoly instead of yknow, just letting FOX define the narrative like they usually do. It worked well in 2022 honestly, and I’m just shocked red and maroon avs on here don’t seem to be drawing the dots between the sudden support for a tiktok ban and the fact that young voters turning out nullified the red wave. It’s pretty blatant and a very smart move by the GOP.

I agree that it is poor form from a strategic point of view.
I do in fact have a negative opinion towards Tiktok itself, but banning it is an atrocious decision on many levels - saying this as someone who does not usually watch short-form content. I've spoken to fellow young people and they think the whole narrative around this is b***. One mentioned the hearings and said members of Congress looked so dumb.
It would be more reasonable to ask for changes in how they operate, I could get behind that quite easily. Banning it is another issue altogether.
A lot of this feels at least fairly hysterical anyway.

Absolutely!
Increased security measures so that we can be sure China isn’t accessing data is not an unreasonable request and is what the goal ought to be. And thank you for the maturity to separate your own personal views on something from how it should be dealt with politically. That’s getting rarer these days.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Oh fun fact. Biden was desperately begging some tiktok influencers I know to spread pro-Ukraine messaging and inform their audience just last year. Obviously I support this move but it’s funny how the senile vegetable now has flip flopped all of a sudden. And then the House Dems had “grassroots” campaign messages and gotv efforts on the app throughout 2022. What made them change their stances? Definitely wouldn’t be Meta buying them off…right?
At least Trump and the GOP are consistently terrible!

Democrats should make use of Tiktok again in 2024. A tool is a tool is a tool, especially when the people using it are in many cases tools themselves.

See, this is the actual progressive stance. Using this technology to help challenge the Murdoch monopoly instead of yknow, just letting FOX define the narrative like they usually do. It worked well in 2022 honestly, and I’m just shocked red and maroon avs on here don’t seem to be drawing the dots between the sudden support for a tiktok ban and the fact that young voters turning out nullified the red wave. It’s pretty blatant and a very smart move by the GOP.

I agree that it is poor form from a strategic point of view.
I do in fact have a negative opinion towards Tiktok itself, but banning it is an atrocious decision on many levels - saying this as someone who does not usually watch short-form content. I've spoken to fellow young people and they think the whole narrative around this is b***. One mentioned the hearings and said members of Congress looked so dumb.
It would be more reasonable to ask for changes in how they operate, I could get behind that quite easily. Banning it is another issue altogether.
A lot of this feels at least fairly hysterical anyway.

Absolutely!
Increased security measures so that we can be sure China isn’t accessing data is not an unreasonable request and is what the goal ought to be. And thank you for the maturity to separate your own personal views on something from how it should be dealt with politically. That’s getting rarer these days.

Thanks for the kind words. I've always separated the two in my mind...my considerable pragmatism has only helped firm up and make that tendency stronger over the years, not weaker. I'm quite caution-driven in general too, which helps.
Banning something as popular as Tiktok is a huge decision and there's no singularly elegant solution to this that is practical, thus usable in the real world. So we think of the merits and demerits of various courses of action before we decide what to do. A moral panic caused by pathetic Red baiting by salty right-wingers is not sufficient cause for action.

Truth be told, the modern state is not as powerful as it imagines itself, with technology and all...we are seeing what it is like to live in 1500s Germany, with the printing press causing social upheaval and changing things around us. Social media and modern technology are also upheaval producers, and it's probably harmful to the image of governmental authority to overreach like this. The horse has already left the stable.

There are, of course, quite real issues afflicting society and Tiktok doesn't help, but to think "BAN! BAN! BAN!" is the solution is to show finesse levels that we associate with cavemen. Of course that is why the GOP, being like a bull so heavily drawn to attacking the "red" cloth, likes the idea. I would hope the Dems are smarter than this.

By 2015 standards, I am a China hawk. If GOP c. 2023 defines China hawk, then I will gladly be a dove.

[Vosem]

It’s funny. Short term videos are literally just a combination of memes and long term videos. Yet you see none of the millennial avocado clutchers or any of the “pick me” intellectuals on here ever get upset about either of the other two because they grew up with them in their teen/college years and whatever they grew up with is okay.

This is genuinely the same s**t the formerly liberal boomers fell into and I can’t believe y’all are this stupid to fall for it. It’s like watching a motherf**king train wreck when I see y’all slowly become Fuzzy.

I can only speak for myself, but I think the "educational" qualities of long-form video are overestimated as well.

I owe my current employment to long-form YouTube content (general disclaimer that my personal experiences are extremely non-generalizable, I live in an America where most of the people I encounter happen to be libertarians even in deep-blue enclaves, but still perhaps needs to be said that this does work for some people); even more specifically I owe it to YouTube's 'Show transcript' feature, which got good enough to be used as a textbook substitute circa spring/summer 2021. The ability to read explanations of hyper-specific coding or mathematics problems, and then watch people solve the problem on their screen/chalkboard when that's not good enough, is ludicrously good for those disciplined enough to be able to use it.

[Continential]

Protests outside the Capitol to "keep TikTok" have occured.



Supporters of TikTok hold signs during a rally to defend the app at the Capitol in Washington, on Wednesday.Jose Luis Magana / AP

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tiktok-ban-creator-protest-washington-dc-rcna75825

"The creator gathering in D.C. comes one day before TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew is scheduled to testify in Congress about the app.

NBC News confirmed last week that the Biden administration is considering a ban of TikTok in the U.S. if the app’s Chinese owners refuse to sell their stakes. "

“My teaching thrives on TikTok”? This is not going to win hearts and minds.

Well they are ordinary people fighting for their own interest - and TikTok is a platform where they can share their teachings to plenty of people, and they often are only on TikTok and TikTok is the only platform they are on and it would be pretty hard for most TikTok creators to diversify because they have to start from scratch unless they are big enough.