Biggest military upset ever?
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  Biggest military upset ever?
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Author Topic: Biggest military upset ever?  (Read 2382 times)
Lumine
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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2023, 11:49:22 PM »

I suppose the most objective answer is Agincourt.

Personal favorites of mine include Nobunaga's sneak victory at Okehazama (1560), outnumbered 10 to 1 and won through deceit); and Davout at Auerstadt (1806), giving the Prussian Army a thorough spanking with a single corps.

There's also a mention to be made of the Austro-Prussian War (1870-71). It may be understandable now, but most observers expected France to prevail with relative ease. As it was, it took Moltke a month to capture Napoleon III and humiliate what was - mistakenly - perceived to be the strongest army in Europe.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2023, 10:20:59 AM »

I suppose the most objective answer is Agincourt.

Agincourt is notorious in wargaming circles as it is impossible to produce a set of rules that could mimic the outcome as what happened was the result of decisions so outrageously and implausibly stupid that they cannot be rationally modelled!
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Solid4096
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« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2023, 10:18:35 PM »

I suppose the most objective answer is Agincourt.

Agincourt is notorious in wargaming circles as it is impossible to produce a set of rules that could mimic the outcome as what happened was the result of decisions so outrageously and implausibly stupid that they cannot be rationally modelled!
What "decisions so outrageously and implausibly stupid" are you referring to?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2023, 01:54:20 PM »

What "decisions so outrageously and implausibly stupid" are you referring to?

Almost all of them? But specifically that it would be a jolly clever idea to a) attack across a narrow field, waterlogged by recent heavy rain, which had also been ploughed recently and that was hemmed in by woodland on both sides, b) to dump all the various lighter supporting elements of the army behind the main offensive battles* without any real idea of what to do with them, c) to just blindly throw everything forward across sad astonishingly muddy field in a mad rush.

The thing is, by 1415 French armies had a substantial structural advantage over English ones: after disasters like Crécy it was understood that it was not a very good idea to launch massive charges of mounted Knights against supported longbowmen, and so the tendency was for the bulk of the Knights to fight as dismounted Men-at-Arms instead. Massed archery was very effective against cavalry, but was not so useful against heavy infantry. Something like Agincourt should have been completely impossible, which is the main reason why it swiftly became such an iconic battle.

*Divisions of a late Mediaeval army.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2023, 10:45:23 AM »

Incas vs. conquistadors
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2023, 11:28:49 AM »


Yes, that one is just ridiculous.
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