Chinese spy balloon over US

[Crumpets]

Whammy

https://twitter.com/FridaGhitis/status/1622004964645081089

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Why did Trudeau/Canada do nothing?

[7,052,770]

China probably got too much intel.

They did? What "intel" do you think it picked up that wouldn't have been available by satellite?

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

They did? What "intel" do you think it picked up that wouldn't have been available by satellite?

Canada could have shot it down.

Also, apparently, we only became aware of the balloons existence after it entered the continental United States.

[7,052,770]

They did? What "intel" do you think it picked up that wouldn't have been available by satellite?

Canada could have shot it down.

Also, apparently, we only became aware of the balloons existence after it entered the continental United States.

I don't think that really answers my question though. Even if this was a spy balloon, did it really learn anything that Chinese spy satellites hadn't already seen?

[Florida Man for Crime]

I haven't read this thread, but one thing to point out in case anyone is unaware, is that up until a few years ago, we had the Open Skies treaty, until Trump pulled out of it.

The Open Skies treaty was a US-Russia thing mostly, but it also included many other countries. Basically it allowed each country to fly unarmed surveillance planes over each other's territory going back to the end of the cold war. It was one of George H.W. Bush's farsighted, wise, and positive foreign policy achievements in that era. That is actually a good thing, not a bad thing, for peace, because it allows each country to confirm and be reassured that the other side is not preparing for some crazy nuclear first strike or something along those lines. Hence it calms people down, which is good for avoiding things like accidental nuke launch or other dangerous military accidents/incidents.

Obviously, we are not in the treaty now, but in the future we should try to re-create the treaty. To work well though, all countries (most importantly USA, Russia, and China) need to be on board with the treaty. The reason for that is because if that is not the case (supposing that US and Russia are signatories but China is not), then Russia could do flights over the US and share the intel with China, while US could not do flights over China, so that would give China an intel advantage over the US.

But remember, Trump was some pro-Russia puppet who wanted to sell this country to them.

In this case, it is in fact entirely consistent with Trump being a pro-Russia puppet. USA being out of the treaty gave Russia an excuse to get out of it also, which meant that US intel could no longer benefit from it. If Putin had indeed told Trump to do that, Putin would have hoped to benefit by making his preparations to invade Ukraine more difficult for US intelligence to monitor and assess than would have been the case if the US had spyplanes flying over Russia during the buildup period in January-February 2022. In fact, the timing is perfect for that, because Russia exited the treaty shortly prior to the initial stages of the preparations to invade Ukraine.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The reaction from the Chinese is nill, so it should of been shot down a lot earlier

[TheReckoning]

They did? What "intel" do you think it picked up that wouldn't have been available by satellite?

Canada could have shot it down.

Also, apparently, we only became aware of the balloons existence after it entered the continental United States.

I don't think that really answers my question though. Even if this was a spy balloon, did it really learn anything that Chinese spy satellites hadn't already seen?

I mean, clearly China thought it would. They’re not going to send a million dollar balloon into foreign airspace for fun.

[oldtimer]

So, what is the actual evidence that it is spying?

That it's a balloon seems self-evident, though I'm a little surprised FoxNews isn't telling Republicans that it's a socialist UFO full of illegal trans aliens. And the Chinese government have admitted it's their's, claiming it is an off-course weather balloon.

It's very maneuverable at those heights, so just why did it happen to loiter for a substantial period of time near the missile silos in MT, for perhaps the purpose of testing out the low frequency near the ground communications systems of the silos and related military infrastructure?

It had no visible means of propulsion, and for the size of the balloon in the stratosphere it will mostly follow the jet stream to unpredictable areas, that's why there are no spying balloons in that altitude in existence.

It's not a Kirov airship from a pc game.

Since there is no evidence that it was anything but a weather balloon, all this was just another typical balloon scare from the 1900's.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I'm sure Biden has generals who advice him if and when/where it is best to shoot down such a balloon and based on that I would assume that most presidents' decisions would have looked the same or similar. Of course Trump with his narcissistic personality order will grandstandingly claim otherwise as usual.

[Crumpets]

This is a massive boo freaking hoo.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1622043161315971072

[oldtimer]

Why did Trudeau/Canada do nothing?

They were not interested into causing a balloon panic over a weather balloon.

So someone in the Biden Administration decided to blow hot air into it, perhaps as a trial balloon, or for chest pumping (can we get better balloon jokes? ).

[Meclazine for Israel]

They did? What "intel" do you think it picked up that wouldn't have been available by satellite?

Canada could have shot it down.

Also, apparently, we only became aware of the balloons existence after it entered the continental United States.

I don't think that really answers my question though. Even if this was a spy balloon, did it really learn anything that Chinese spy satellites hadn't already seen?

I mean, clearly China thought it would. They’re not going to send a million dollar balloon into foreign airspace for fun.

"But Sir, the photos from the balloon are too far away. Google Maps has much better data on US cities and locations."

It's simply a fun exercise to annoy the USA.

[oldtimer]

They did? What "intel" do you think it picked up that wouldn't have been available by satellite?

Canada could have shot it down.

Also, apparently, we only became aware of the balloons existence after it entered the continental United States.

I don't think that really answers my question though. Even if this was a spy balloon, did it really learn anything that Chinese spy satellites hadn't already seen?

I mean, clearly China thought it would. They’re not going to send a million dollar balloon into foreign airspace for fun.

What million dollars ?
You can have your own for less than 500$ :

https://www.space.com/20089-near-space-balloons-science.html

[Middle-aged Europe]

Can one of the usual suspects around here please make a "will the downing the balloon lead to WWIII", please?

Thanks.

[emailking]

I'm sure Biden has generals who advice him if and when/where it is best to shoot down such a balloon and based on that I would assume that most presidents' decisions would have looked the same or similar. Of course Trump with his narcissistic personality order will grandstandingly claim otherwise as usual.

Trump posted a video of him shooting down the balloon with a golf shot.

[ProudModerate2]

Can one of the usual suspects around here please make a "will the downing the balloon lead to WWIII", please?
Thanks.

[GeorgiaModerate]

China never would have done this under Trump because they knew the balloon would have been blown up immediately.  The world is laughing at us.

Oops.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattnovak/2023/02/04/yes-chinese-spy-balloons-flew-over-the-us-when-president-trump-was-in-office-too/

[Stockdale for Veep]

Do territorial rights apply? How high until you reach international atmosphere?

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

So, what is the actual evidence that it is spying?

That it's a balloon seems self-evident, though I'm a little surprised FoxNews isn't telling Republicans that it's a socialist UFO full of illegal trans aliens. And the Chinese government have admitted it's their's, claiming it is an off-course weather balloon.

It's very maneuverable at those heights, so just why did it happen to loiter for a substantial period of time near the missile silos in MT, for perhaps the purpose of testing out the low frequency near the ground communications systems of the silos and related military infrastructure?

It had no visible means of propulsion, and for the size of the balloon in the stratosphere it will mostly follow the jet stream to unpredictable areas, that's why there are no spying balloons in that altitude in existence.

It's not a Kirov airship from a pc game.

Since there is no evidence that it was anything but a weather balloon, all this was just another typical balloon scare from the 1900's.

NYT appears to contradict this, reported minutes ago;

Shortly after the Chinese government condemned the downing of the balloon, a senior U.S. administration official reiterated that the aircraft was in fact a surveillance tool that had been carrying equipment used to monitor sensitive military sites. The Chinese government had control of the balloon’s flight path, according to the official.

[7,052,770]

They did? What "intel" do you think it picked up that wouldn't have been available by satellite?

Canada could have shot it down.

Also, apparently, we only became aware of the balloons existence after it entered the continental United States.

I don't think that really answers my question though. Even if this was a spy balloon, did it really learn anything that Chinese spy satellites hadn't already seen?

I mean, clearly China thought it would. They’re not going to send a million dollar balloon into foreign airspace for fun.

Says who? You? If this was even intentional on China's part, they successfully created a new stupid partisan squabble in the internal affairs of their rival. They may consider it money (probably nowhere near $1M) well-spent.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

So, what is the actual evidence that it is spying?

That it's a balloon seems self-evident, though I'm a little surprised FoxNews isn't telling Republicans that it's a socialist UFO full of illegal trans aliens. And the Chinese government have admitted it's their's, claiming it is an off-course weather balloon.

No weather balloon is that size.

[oldtimer]

So, what is the actual evidence that it is spying?

That it's a balloon seems self-evident, though I'm a little surprised FoxNews isn't telling Republicans that it's a socialist UFO full of illegal trans aliens. And the Chinese government have admitted it's their's, claiming it is an off-course weather balloon.

It's very maneuverable at those heights, so just why did it happen to loiter for a substantial period of time near the missile silos in MT, for perhaps the purpose of testing out the low frequency near the ground communications systems of the silos and related military infrastructure?

It had no visible means of propulsion, and for the size of the balloon in the stratosphere it will mostly follow the jet stream to unpredictable areas, that's why there are no spying balloons in that altitude in existence.

It's not a Kirov airship from a pc game.

Since there is no evidence that it was anything but a weather balloon, all this was just another typical balloon scare from the 1900's.

NYT appears to contradict this, reported minutes ago;

Shortly after the Chinese government condemned the downing of the balloon, a senior U.S. administration official reiterated that the aircraft was in fact a surveillance tool that had been carrying equipment used to monitor sensitive military sites. The Chinese government had control of the balloon’s flight path, according to the official.

Did they use magic powers to control it's flight path and relay video ?

Do you see any engines, fuel tanks, sophisticated over the horizon or satellite communication equipment on the balloon ? (that would also weigh a ton)

We have photos of the thing, so I believe my own eyes.

The Hubble space telescope ( which is a surplus KH-11 spy-satellite) turned towards the earth has more spying power than a camera on a balloon. That's why stratosphere balloons are not used for spying.

[emailking]

Hubble is not used for spying.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

So, what is the actual evidence that it is spying?

That it's a balloon seems self-evident, though I'm a little surprised FoxNews isn't telling Republicans that it's a socialist UFO full of illegal trans aliens. And the Chinese government have admitted it's their's, claiming it is an off-course weather balloon.

It's very maneuverable at those heights, so just why did it happen to loiter for a substantial period of time near the missile silos in MT, for perhaps the purpose of testing out the low frequency near the ground communications systems of the silos and related military infrastructure?

It had no visible means of propulsion, and for the size of the balloon in the stratosphere it will mostly follow the jet stream to unpredictable areas, that's why there are no spying balloons in that altitude in existence.

It's not a Kirov airship from a pc game.

Since there is no evidence that it was anything but a weather balloon, all this was just another typical balloon scare from the 1900's.

NYT appears to contradict this, reported minutes ago;

Shortly after the Chinese government condemned the downing of the balloon, a senior U.S. administration official reiterated that the aircraft was in fact a surveillance tool that had been carrying equipment used to monitor sensitive military sites. The Chinese government had control of the balloon’s flight path, according to the official.

Did they use magic powers to control it's flight path and relay video ?

Do you see any engines, fuel tanks, sophisticated over the horizon or satellite communication equipment on the balloon ? (that would also weigh a ton)

We have photos of the thing, so I believe my own eyes.

The Hubble space telescope ( which is a surplus KH-11 spy-satellite) turned towards the earth has more spying power than a camera on a balloon. That's why stratosphere balloons are not used for spying.

You have grainy photos from civilians on the ground. Lol.

US government official /w high resolution photos and intel > Random Atlas poster.

In any case, I don't have strong opinions on this, was simply pointing out that many sources contradict what you're saying.