Brazil thread 2023-

[Red Velvet]

Macron looks like happy

[pictures]

Did Macron visit Brazil lol?

Yes, why? France, in theory at least, has been the best European partner for Brazil since at least previous Lula’s governments and the unexpected Lula-Sarkozy friendship.

Lula even committed a silly gaffe and called Macron “Sarkozy” in an Anazon event, which led to some ill-intentioned people to say that Lula is becoming senile, stuck in memories of the past.

He began his visit in Belém do Pará (local of these Amazônia forest romance pics), where he and Lula announced an investment program of 1 Billion Euros in the Bioeconomy of the Amazon Forest of Brazil and (French) Guyana.

He also went to Itaguaí in Rio de Janeiro to inaugurate the Brazilian military submarine, made from a Brazil-France partnership. Macron supported there technology cooperation to develop Brazil’s (and Latin America’s) 1st nuclear submarine as well, in order to guarantee peace.

He participated in an Industry event in São Paulo too and I didn’t read much about it, only that he criticized the Mercosul - UE deal as bad for both sides. France has been the main actor stopping the deal due to being a more economically protectionist country in Europe, as opposed to Germany for example.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Macron looks like happy

[pictures]

Did Macron visit Brazil lol?

Yes, why? France, in theory at least, has been the best European partner for Brazil since at least previous Lula’s governments and the unexpected Lula-Sarkozy friendship.

Lula even committed a silly gaffe and called Macron “Sarkozy” in an Anazon event, which led to some ill-intentioned people to say that Lula is becoming senile.

He began his visit in Belém do Pará (local of these Amazônia forest romance pics), where he and Lula announced an investment program of 1 Billion Euros in the Bioeconomy of the Amazon Forest of Brazil and (French) Guyana.

He also went to Itaguaí in Rio de Janeiro to inaugurate the Brazilian military submarine, made from a Brazil-France partnership. Macron supported there technology cooperation to develop Brazil’s (and Latin America’s) 1st nuclear submarine as well, in order to guarantee peace.

He participated in an Industry event in São Paulo too and I didn’t read much about it, only that he criticized the Mercosul - UE deal as bad for both sides. France has been the main actor stopping the deal due to being a more economically protectionist country in Europe, as opposed to Germany for example.

Ok I will admit that it was a bit shallow jumping right to laughing so rapidly. It's nice to see wholesome things of great substance were achieved.
Thanks for the rundown.

[buritobr]

Macron's trip to Brazil is good for Lula because he can answer to the criticism that he is being too anti-west (he is not). It is also good for Macron because he be related to a progressive agenda (preservation of Amazon forest) and he can meet a left-wing leader. Macron was minister of center-left government and became critized to have moved too much to the right in his 2nd term.

Brazil and France have a long history of friendship. In the past, France used to be a model of civilization for the Brazilian elites,  more than the English-speaking world. When the University of São Paulo was founded in 1932, a french mission came to Brazil in order to establish academic programs. France likes to be closer to the 3rd world more than other 1st world countries are.

[Red Velvet]

Macron's trip to Brazil is good for Lula because he can answer to the criticism that he is being too anti-west (he is not). It is also good for Macron because he be related to a progressive agenda (preservation of Amazon forest) and he can meet a left-wing leader. Macron was minister of center-left government and became critized to have moved too much to the right in his 2nd term.

Brazil and France have a long history of friendship. In the past, France used to be a model of civilization for the Brazilian elites,  more than the English-speaking world. When the University of São Paulo was founded in 1932, a french mission came to Brazil in order to establish academic programs. France likes to be closer to the 3rd world more than other 1st world countries are.

I wouldn’t say there’s something more special about Brazil-France historical relationship more than Brazil-Elsewhere from the Main Western countries tbh, but my impression is that during Lula terms he tends to personally get along with French leaders and vice-versa.

Or at least they want to sell this impression. These photos are like a Pre-Wedding book with these two holding hands, smiling and having fun, which is quite unconventional to see, be it with Western leaders or Non-Western leaders.

Olaf Scholz came here twice since Lula assumed and it was always more formal meetings. And he’s in theory more ideologically closer to Lula than Macron.

Same thing Latin American leaders who came here and don’t take these romantic pictures to make propaganda about like Macron is doing:

https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1773485139777011767
https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1773505759399006332
My honest impression is that more recently, since Lula-Sarkozy at very least, both France and Brazil see each other as strategic and complementary in different ways.

Sarkozy described Brazil in his book as a key strategic bilateral partner for France because it’s “not Small enough to be irrelevant the effort like most 3rd world countries but also not Big enough to have a role of dominance in the bilateral relationship like with US”.

Both are similar-sized economies by GDP so that stimulates a more equal dynamic for both sides in terms of leverage. Easier to have a productive but also equalitarian partnership for both.

France is also the one European country that doesn’t feel like it’s fully submissive to USA, which is an unbalanced relationship for France AND Brazil so in terms of Brazilian interests where we don’t match or find common ground with USA, it’s more likely that we will find cooperation within France.

The Nuclear Submarine “know-how” cooperation is a perfect example of this, with US being against other countries cooperating with us on the matter and even campaigning on this as for them, the less countries concentrate this technology, the better.

Only 6 countries have the technology of Nuclear propulsion in order to create this kind of Submarine: USA; Russia; China; India; UK and France.

USA and even China are unbalanced relationships to get cooperation on this kind of matter. UK is only USA pet and would boycott us by US request. India still way too geopolitically distant. Russia could be viable but would create tensions and suspicions.

Which makes France the perfect partner to get this Nuclear tech cooperation and information from so that we become the 7th country in the world to get Nuclear Submarines.

That isn’t to say we always agree in everything, far from that. EU-Mercosur deal disagreements and stances on Russia/Ukraine were points of mismatch during the visit for example but nothing that stopped that “romance” pictures propaganda.

Basically, Brazil-France dynamics are VEEERY different and more specific than general France-3rd World bilateral relationships. I wouldn’t say France is a “friend that likes the 3rd world” for instance, just look at France relationship dynamics in OTHER countries and it will look way more disproportionate.

[Red Velvet]

Wikipedia also mentions 2008 (Year of Lula-Sarkozy duo) as the landmark of when the bilateral strategic relationship began:

Brazil and France entered a formal strategic alliance in 2008.[2][3] France supports Brazil's ambition to become a global player on the international scene,[4] and has been a strong supporter of the Brazilian bid for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council. Through significant technology transfers, France intends to help Brazil acquire key technologies of a major world power in the military, space, energy and technology sectors.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil–France_relations

Granted, this strategic relationship seems to only exist while the Left is in power in Brazil because Bolsonaro put the France relationship in the trash hahahaha

[CumbrianLefty]

Bolsonaro put Brazil in the trash, more like.

[Red Velvet]

Bolsonaro put Brazil in the trash, more like.

Wrong. Car-wash did and it wasn’t an organic movement. Bolsonaro and hardcore right-wing extremism was only the natural consequence for such anti-establishment hate that it stimulated.

Most places in “Western” world seem to be subjected to it though, even if it was quickly anticipated here. But I agree Bolsonaro is on a noticeable lower level of intellectual abilities than the average member of the far-right global movement.

[buritobr]

Today, it is the 60th anniversary of the civil-military coup d'etat of March 31st 1964 in Brazil

This is one of the most iconic pictures of that day, taken by journalist Evandro Teixeira. Soldiers guarding the Fort Copacabana in the night. The metaphor of the darkness in which Brazil lived the 20 following years of authoritarian rule


Other iconic picture


Other famous pictures, taken by other journalists

Central do Brasil, Rio de Janeiro


National Congress, in the recent built city of Brasília


Lula decided to not organize official events concerning the date. This decision was fairly criticized not only by leftists but also by centrists. He wants to improve his relation with the military (I don't think it will work).

Minister of Human Rights Silvio Almeida was one of the few to make an official statement

Por que ditadura nunca mais?

Porque queremos um país social e economicamente desenvolvido, e não um “Brasil interrompido”

Porque queremos um país soberano, que não se curve a interesses opostos aos do povo brasileiro

Porque queremos um país institucional e culturalmente democrático

Porque queremos um país em que a verdade e a justiça prevaleçam sobre a mentira e a violência

Porque queremos um país livre da tortura e do autoritarismo

Porque queremos um país sem milícias e grupos de extermínio

E neste domingo, em que também reafirmamos nosso compromisso com as políticas de memória e verdade, lembro de um texto que escrevi em 2022:

“[…], foi preciso odiar a escravidão e seus institutos para que ela pudesse ter fim; foi preciso odiar os nazistas e seus símbolos para derrotá-los. É imperioso odiar o fascismo e todos que o celebram. É imprescindível repudiar visceralmente e com todas as forças aqueles que humilham e destroem a vida de trabalhadores e de minorias”

É preciso ter ódio e nojo da ditadura, como disse Ulisses Guimarães

Feliz Páscoa e Viva a democracia!

https://twitter.com/silviolual/status/1774490186568671647


Former president Dilma Rousseff, who was tortured in 1970, did also write a statement

Manter a memória e a verdade histórica sobre o golpe militar que ocorreu no Brasil há 60 anos, em 31 de março de 1964, é crucial para assegurar que essa tragédia não se repita, como quase ocorreu recentemente, em 8 de janeiro de 2023.
Como tentaram agora, naquela época, infelizmente, conseguiram. Forças reacionárias e conservadoras  se uniram,  rasgaram a Constituição, traíram a democracia, e eliminaram as conquistas culturais, sociais e econômicas da sociedade brasileira. O presidente João Goulart, legitimamente eleito, foi derrubado e morreu no exílio.
No passado, como agora, a História não apaga os sinais de traição à democracia e nem limpa da consciência nacional os atos de perversidade daqueles que exilaram e mancharam de sangue, tortura e morte a vida brasileira durante 21 anos.
Tampouco resgata aqueles que apoiaram o ataque às instituições, à democracia e aos ideais de uma sociedade mais justa e menos desigual.

Ditadura nunca mais!

https://twitter.com/dilmabr/status/1774420644618228169

[buritobr]

This picture shows that unlike US, UK and France, the populist right-wing doesn't perform better in the group of not university educated voters


But you have to take care while interpreting this number. If you control the result by income, you will see a preference of low educated people for Bolsonaro. He had the preference of rich people and Lula had the preference of poor people. Usually, rich people are more educated. And even though, they tie in the poll concerning the education. Comparing two people with the same income, the lower educated is more willing to vote for Bolsonaro. Bolsonaro won most of the middle-upper income districts, but the few middle-upper income districts Lula won have very educated people.
The large majority of the famous soccer players voted for Bolsonaro because they are the typical Bolsonaro's demographics: rich not university educated people. Every rule has exceptions. Lula has typical demographics of Bolsonaro's voters: he is an old white man, he is rich and he is not university educated. But of course he voted for himself.

If a right-wing populist has not a leftist as an opponent, but a liberal centrist, university educated people became even more willing to vote against the right-wing populist. Example: there was no left-wing candidate in the runoff of the election for mayor of the city of Rio de Janeiro in 2020. The liberal centrist Eduardo Paes had a large majority of the university educated voters against the right-wing populist evangelic priest Marcelo Crivela.

[CumbrianLefty]

Interesting that educated people are *more* likely to vote for Modi/BJP in India.

[Red Velvet]

On the short term: Fine the hell out of Twitter/X for not complying with Brazilian judiciary orders and if they not fold, simply ban the platform in here altogether. F*** Elon Musk right where it hurts him.

On the long term: We need clearer and more specific legislation on Social Media so that monocratic decisions by the judiciary aren’t necessary every single time anyone commits a crime online. It’s ridiculous that a gringo with a sh*t face is openly disrespecting Brazilian courts but the current scenario also isn’t sustainable.

[buritobr]

Interesting that educated people are *more* likely to vote for Modi/BJP in India.

Maybe it is the income effect, similar to what happened in Brazil in 2018

[buritobr]

The Brazilian Supreme Court blocked tweets spreading fake news, supporting the Bolsonaro's coup attempt and supporting racist and nazi speeches. Elon Musk, in an attempt to create a trouble against Brazil, decided to unblock these tweets. This millionaire support far-right leaders and Brazil is inside the battlefield, since Bolsonaro had the support of almost half of the Brazilian voters. If Musk really unblock these far-right tweets, X can be shut down in Brazil. I won't miss. I use the X, but there are other platforms I can use.
There is no First Amendment in Brazil. The Constitution guarantees free speech, but the approach of free speech valid in Brazil is similar to Continental Europe and not to the US. Elon Musk is trying to violate Brazilian law.

And Musk is not a free speech hero
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/06/elon-musk-free-speech-lawsuits?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1712411239

[buritobr]

There are already memes available

Elon Musk running for president of Brazil in 2026 in the far-right PL.

The joke is funny, but not realistic. Even if Elon Musk gets Brazilian citizenship, he can not run for president because he is not a natural born Brazilian. If he gets the Brazilian citizenship, he can run for state governor, city mayor, representative (but not being the president of the House), senator (but not being the president of the Senate). He can be a minister, except of the Defense and the Foreign Affairs.

[SInNYC]

Interesting that educated people are *more* likely to vote for Modi/BJP in India.

Maybe it is the income effect, similar to what happened in Brazil in 2018

India still has significant caste-based voting, and educated people are more likely to be in the priesthood caste, a BJP group (though the highly educated may not be as BJP). Traditionally, and especially in the British era, the educated were almost exclusively in this caste, though that has changed a lot in recent decades.

As far as reasons, one is that the Congress party is seen as responsible for India's version of affirmative action (which affects things a lot more than in the US since the underprivileged are a big majority there). If India is like every other country, I'm assuming the second highest caste will be even more BJP than the highest. I think the stats for education+caste would be more informative.

[Red Velvet]

Sometimes I ask what have we done to be so blessed? Because it’s not like I feel we deserve it.

First we get rid of Bolsonaro in 2023 and now we’re about to get rid of X/Twitter in 2024? Make it happen now. The Global Far-Right is scared as hell about Brazil being the First country in the world to hold them accountable for their crimes, setting a precedent for other nations with this problem to follow.

X has to fall in line with Brazilian law if it wants to operate here. Fine the hell out of them per day for every day they don’t comply with our justice and if they don’t pay, simply ban that hellish platform X in the country for good.

[Red Velvet]

https://twitter.com/felipeneto/status/1777110004115406893
Translation:

Did “Rocket Quico” [Elon Musk] really disobey any Supreme Court decision so far?

Because between talk and actions, there is an abyss.

As far as I've seen, banned accounts of criminals remain banned, for example.

If he does nothing, besides being a neo-fascist agitator, Elon Musk is also a coward wimp.

To be seen.

Brazilian biggest online content producer and influencer has spoken. He seems to believe Elon Musk is only talk with this intent of lifting up twitter bans ordered by the Supreme Court and is too much of a coward to really unban the far-right agitators, which would risk Twitter existence and access in Brazil being blocked as those bans were judicial orders by the Supreme Court.

[buritobr]

Elon Musk is "brave" enough to create trouble only in the global periphery.

Germany has a very strict legislation concerning nazi speech and anti-semitism and Elon Musk is not fighting for free speech in Germany.

[Red Velvet]

Elon Musk is "brave" enough to create trouble only in the global periphery.

Germany has a very strict legislation concerning nazi speech and anti-semitism and Elon Musk is not fighting for free speech in Germany.

Exactly. But I think it’s a mix of the racism you mention (deluded western gringos assuming they have superior morals to lecture how others have to follow them) and also fear though, because they see it as a precedent that it could be used in their countries to contain the far-right disinformation tactics in case it works.

German legislation prohibiting Nazi expressions is something older and more established, not related to the current methods of the far-right of applying their disinformation strategy. They currently are given blanche card everywhere to attack democracy while protecting themselves under the same democratic free-speech system they are against.

Notice how it’s Elon Musk and general far-right US and International activists making noise about it. It’s because they know that these disinformation methods are what sustain them so if these tactics get repressed by the law, they can go back to the hole they came from. It’s about fear of the creation of positive precedents.

To be clear, I don’t really think Supreme Court monocratic decisions should be necessary for trivial stuff like this - banned X accounts - and I think Alexandre de Moraes has too much power on the matter as I’ve criticized here some previous decisions, such as the Monark ban for example.

But that is a matter for the elected Brazilian Congress to choose to address (or not, considering who they are) by creating specific legislation for the matter. It’s not up some random foreigner with hidden interests to contest or disobey.

The absence of this more specific legislation is what makes necessary for the judiciary to use their own interpretation of the law to protect Brazilian democracy from those who attack it and want to destroy it.

And if Congress doesn’t address this - and we know they won’t as it’s an actual relevant matter - then it’s the Brazilian people choosing to keep this status-quo otherwise they would elect politicians who are focused on resolving that kind of agenda.

We all know that in the end, the right-wing voters complaining about the judiciary being authoritarian will end up voting for some “Big Center” crook type that doesn’t give a damn about this OR some crazy Bolsonarist who pretends to care for the audience but is more concerned about Unissex bathrooms; Gun regulations and antagonizing everyone instead of doing politics.

[PSOL]

As much as I want it to happen, Twitter isn’t getting blocked in Brazil.

[Red Velvet]

As much as I want it to happen, Twitter isn’t getting blocked in Brazil.

I also think so, but only because Elon Musk is too much of a coward to really follow through with his talk and really disobey Brazilian Supreme Court. He only feels free to be an agitator because he underestimates Brazilian Judiciary.

Brazilian telecommunication agency has already prepared our telecommunication operators about the possibility of taking X/Twitter off the air. If the Supreme Court decisions are really disobeyed instead of just threats, then Twitter will go off and be blocked in Brazil. Indian “Koo” could be a possible substitute for Twitter if this really happens.

Yesterday, as a response to these threats, Elon Musk was included as an investigated party in the current fake news inquiry and for each profile that is unbanned after judicial orders closed them will result in a DAILY fine of around $20k dollars (per profile and per day)

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Really revelatory how little attention this has gotten. A left wing leader's judicial appointees threaten to ban an entire website for hosting dissenting speech (in some cases not even dissenting speech in that country's language?) and to stop a popular former leader who got 49% of the vote just two years ago from running again on spurious charges, and the New York Times, the White House, et cetera have said nothing. By contrast, the Polish judicial reforms were treated as a herald of incoming dictatorship.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Really revelatory how little attention this has gotten. A left wing leader's judicial appointees threaten to ban an entire website for hosting dissenting speech (in some cases not even dissenting speech in that country's language?) and to stop a popular former leader who got 49% of the vote just two years ago from running again on spurious charges, and the New York Times, the White House, et cetera have said nothing. By contrast, the Polish judicial reforms were treated as a herald of incoming dictatorship.

Particularly since Lula is anti-Western, while Duda/the PiS are not. This isn't even something that can be explained by national self-interest -- it is pure fellow traveling.

[Red Velvet]

Really revelatory how little attention this has gotten. A left wing leader's judicial appointees threaten to ban an entire website for hosting dissenting speech (in some cases not even dissenting speech in that country's language?) and to stop a popular former leader who got 49% of the vote just two years ago from running again on spurious charges, and the New York Times, the White House, et cetera have said nothing. By contrast, the Polish judicial reforms were treated as a herald of incoming dictatorship.

USA bans TikTok based on nothing  = WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR SOVEREIGNTY FROM CHINA

Brazil bans X if Elon Musk actively disobeys Brazilian sovereignty = MUH CENSORSHIP

It’s really revealing, though not surprising at all, how these different standards are applied.

Btw, Justice Alexandre de Moraes was appointed by Michel Temer, a center-right conservative president.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

The US hasn't banned TikTok. There is a bill under consideration to force its sale (which I oppose) but even that would be non-analagous to the extent that it would be passed by Congress, not mandated by executive fiat, and that it would not be primarily motivated by domestic politics, let alone to shut down specific dissenting voices.

Alexandre de Moraes was appointed by Temer, but Cármen Lúcia and several of the Superior Electoral Court's other members are Lulaists.