🇬🇷 Greek politics and elections

[Logical]

What is the "second round" exactly?

Syriza abolished the system which gives a 50 seat winners bonus but as they do not have a supermajority the changes can only be implemented in the second next election. When ND replaced Syriza they changed the system again so that the largest party gets a 20 seats winners bonus along with a sliding bonus for parties above >25% of the vote. As they too do not have a 2/3rd majority their system will only be used after the next election.

No party will likely win a majority on its own under Syriza's fully proportional electoral system and as no one seems interested in trying to build a majority coalition it is very likely that there will be another election soon under the ND electoral system with a smaller winners bonus and seat bonuses for larger parties. This is the "second round".

[Harlow]

Such a weird position to be in where voters are heading into an election with the expectation that it won't really matter, just sort of getting it out of the way to move onto the second election which has different rules.

[Oppo]

Return of the king

https://twitter.com/DiEM_25/status/1635972928931000321?s=20

[DL]

Can anyone explain what ideological difference there is (if any) between Syriza and Pasok? I know that Syriza was formed as a leftwing protest against Pasok's austerity measures when the Greek economy collapsed ten years ago - but then when Syriza took power they seemed to have evolved into more of a moderate centre left party indistinguishable from the old Pasok  - so why don't they just merge? or is now all just personal rivalries and resentments?

[Landslide Lyndon]

Can anyone explain what ideological difference there is (if any) between Syriza and Pasok? I know that Syriza was formed as a leftwing protest against Pasok's austerity measures when the Greek economy collapsed ten years ago - but then when Syriza took power they seemed to have evolved into more of a moderate centre left party indistinguishable from the old Pasok  - so why don't they just merge? or is now all just personal rivalries and resentments?

SYRIZA wan't "formed" as a protest party. It exists since 1989 when the Communist Party and a handful of pro-European leftist parties merged a few months before that year's election.

[oldtimer]

Can anyone explain what ideological difference there is (if any) between Syriza and Pasok? I know that Syriza was formed as a leftwing protest against Pasok's austerity measures when the Greek economy collapsed ten years ago - but then when Syriza took power they seemed to have evolved into more of a moderate centre left party indistinguishable from the old Pasok  - so why don't they just merge? or is now all just personal rivalries and resentments?

Small history lesson.

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SYRIZA started in 1968 when the european Communist Parties split over the Prague Spring.
The Eurocommunists, as they where then known, formed in Greece the Communist Party of the Interior.

That party electorally split from the Communist Party in 1977 to gather around 1% in elections (they where called "living room commies", because of their upscale incomes and intellectualism made them appeal to very few people).

In 1989 with Gorbachev in charge, the Greek Communists and the Interior Communists decided to merge into the Coalition of the Left and Progress (SYN).
And challenged the scandal plagued PASOK in the 1989 elections, with only limited success.

The end of communism in 1991 also ended the merger between the two communist parties.

In the 13th and unlucky Greek Communist Party conference the Stalinists took over and left, leaving only the small Interior party behind.

In the 1993 elections the now stalinist Communist Party re-entered parliament at only half their previous strength, while the SYN didn't manage at all.

By the mid 1990's the endless drift of PASOK to the right had created a small space for non-communist leftists who congregated into the SYN and allowed it to re-enter parliament in the 1996 elections.

In the mid-2000's there were dozens and dozens of left wing splinter parties that where too small to enter parliament (most gathering less than 1%), a deal was made with it's new chairman (Alecos Alavanos) to create a new coalition party between the SYN and all of them, the Coalition of the Radical Left, SYRIZA.

That allowed it to secure it's precarious place in parliament.

In 2008 Alavanos had a health scare with cancer and temporarily stepped back and appointed Tsipras to his place, Tsipras purged him later when he wanted to come back (a bit like Lenin and Stalin, but this Lenin still lives).

In 2010 SYRIZA split, because it's centrist faction that supported the bailouts was purged by Tsipras.

In 2015 SYRIZA split, because it's left faction that was against the bailouts was purged by Tsipras.
(And by a margin of 1 vote, it is rumoured that Tsipras bribed the representative to their central committee of a faction called Roza to switch his vote)

As to why don't PASOK and SYRIZA merge the answer is easy, SYRIZA has a smaller party membership, so Tsipras would lose his position as party leader.
And God knows what he has done to claim and retain it.

[oldtimer]

Such a weird position to be in where voters are heading into an election with the expectation that it won't really matter, just sort of getting it out of the way to move onto the second election which has different rules.

It's like a european parliament election.

[oldtimer]

There have been some developments over the past few days.

1. The opinion polls have converged to a picture where a center-left coalition might just be possible in the 1st election, and a center-right coalition might not be possible in a 2nd election.

Both outcomes are currently right on the edge.

2. Pro-government pundits have taken a softer turn on the opposition, they always lick the boots of anyone who's in charge for a living, so they also think a change in government is possible.

3. PASOK for the first time has opened the possibility of a center-left coalition with SYRIZA.

4. Tsipras for the first time has un-purged someone, that popular MP of his that he purged for daring to suggest that the greek justice system is corrupt, that suggests he is no longer afraid of a government ban on SYRIZA.

Indeed the opposition in general looks more active and no longer in hiding, they feel the government is weak and they are pouncing.

[Mike88]

It's official: Mitsotakis has called elections for 21 May.

[oldtimer]

Summary of Week 1 of the Election Campaign

Government moves:

The greek government alleges it has arrested 2 pakistanis, that were hired by Iran to attack a synagogue in Athens.

I write "alleges" because all crime reporters have cast serious doubts on those claims, due to the lack of guns, explosives, motives, members, money, organizational structure ect.

The government also publised that a senior member of SYRIZA took large preferrencial mortgages to buy a luxury villa, after the opposition published that a Deputy Minister tried to hide his questionable bank loans.

Opposition moves:

The opposition then published that Mitsotakis has an illegal hotel on a greek island.
And that a prominent greek tv presenter is getting preferrencial treatment from the government over his large tax debts in exchange for favourable coverage.


I love this Tit for Tat, it uncovers so much dirt.

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So basically if one is to believe all those press reports, the way Greek Politicians launder
their Bribe money is by going to a local bank, give a slice of the bribe to the local bank manager, in exchange for a bank loan (usually a mortgage) equal to the value of the bribe, and never repay it.

Thus you can make a crude estimate about which Greek politician is the most corrupt by
simply counting the value of his debts and his real estate.

[Mike88]

When you mean "the government published", you mean leaks to the media, right? And through ND, right? It seems weird a government publically announcing dirt on its opposition, rather than the government party or the media by "leaks" from a governing party.

[oldtimer]

When you mean "the government published", you mean leaks to the media, right? And through ND, right? It seems weird a government publically announcing dirt on its opposition, rather than the government party or the media by "leaks" from a governing party.

Government itself, through it's own Ministers, MP's and Official Government Spokesmen publicly.

Accussations and allegations in Greece are usually done in public by the MP's themselves first, as cover for the media to report on them.

[DavidB.]

Government itself, through it's own Ministers, MP's and Official Government Spokesmen publicly.

Accussations and allegations in Greece are usually done in public by the MP's themselves first, as cover for the media to report on them.

Lol. The golden rule "your opponent's filth isn't your soap" apparently isn't part of the playbook.

[oldtimer]

Government itself, through it's own Ministers, MP's and Official Government Spokesmen publicly.

Accussations and allegations in Greece are usually done in public by the MP's themselves first, as cover for the media to report on them.

Lol. The golden rule "your opponent's filth isn't your soap" apparently isn't part of the playbook.

If everyone already thinks they are corrupt they just want to even the score, by proving that everyone else is also as corrupt or more.

And since the greek justice system is deemed to be indifferent in combating crime from big players, it's also safe that they will never spend a single day in jail no matter the crime.

In Greece if you are a big time Television figure or a big time Political figure you are in practice immune, although there has been a hilarious exception:

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In 2021 a TV presenter (who was an ex-pimp) with close links to the government was arrested and sent to jail, after bombing and shooting his own house in order to claim police protection, but only after he publicly blackmailed Ministers and caused a lot of fuss with other Journalists, including alleged mobster hits against them.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1160200/tv-host-remanded-as-police-probe-contract-killing-claims/

 

[Coldstream]

I’m cheering for Leventis to get back in to Parliament.

[oldtimer]

I’m cheering for Leventis to get back in to Parliament.

No one is cheering for him in Greece.

Leventis was an odd political crusader (a crusade to make himself elected) who was known only because he had his own TV station with his own TV show, where he simply commented on politics and current affairs and talked to voters on the phone in an verbally abusing style.

At some point some disaffected voters said why not, and voted for him only to regret it.

Once in parliament he did nothing but empty vague rhetoric while playing boring political games.

His MP's where a general embarrassment who sold themselves to other parties immediately only to disappear from politics because no one votes for such blatant sell outs.

[Coldstream]

I’m cheering for Leventis to get back in to Parliament.

No one is cheering for him in Greece.

Leventis was an odd political crusader (a crusade to make himself elected) who was known only because he had his own TV station with his own TV show, where he simply commented on politics and current affairs and talked to voters on the phone in an verbally abusing style.

At some point some disaffected voters said why not, and voted for him only to regret it.

Once in parliament he did nothing but empty vague rhetoric while playing boring political games.

His MP's where a general embarrassment who sold themselves to other parties immediately only to disappear from politics because no one votes for such blatant sell outs.

This makes it all the more hilarious that he once got elected.

[oldtimer]

I’m cheering for Leventis to get back in to Parliament.

No one is cheering for him in Greece.

Leventis was an odd political crusader (a crusade to make himself elected) who was known only because he had his own TV station with his own TV show, where he simply commented on politics and current affairs and talked to voters on the phone in an verbally abusing style.

At some point some disaffected voters said why not, and voted for him only to regret it.

Once in parliament he did nothing but empty vague rhetoric while playing boring political games.

His MP's where a general embarrassment who sold themselves to other parties immediately only to disappear from politics because no one votes for such blatant sell outs.

This makes it all the more hilarious that he once got elected.

If you are 30 years on TV and 30 years on the ballot ranting about politics you might get elected, but you have to rant a lot and loudly:

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_the_Reconstruction_of_the_Communist_Party_of_Greece

Remember these guys? Bet they feel vindicated these days.

[oldtimer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_the_Reconstruction_of_the_Communist_Party_of_Greece

Remember these guys? Bet they feel vindicated these days.

They have the reputation in Greece of being a CIA front, most small leftist parties in greece probably have more Secret Agents as members than actual voters.

Only the Greek Communist Party has a large enough base and ruthless Stalinism to prevent large scale infliltration by the intelligence community, however no one has any interest in doing so thanks to the 1974 deal.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

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In exchange for legalization and public sector jobs for all it's members, the Communists were to prevent revolutions from occuring, such as the one in 2011.

Here is a map of the Universe of the Greek left with all it's splinters, satellites, planets, ect.

https://ecoleft.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/cf84cebf-cf84ceb1cf81ceb1cf87cf8eceb4ceb5cf82-cf83cf8dcebccf80ceb1cebd-cf84ceb7cf82-ceb5cebbcebbceb7cebdceb9cebaceaecf82-ceb1cf81ceb9.jpg

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_the_Reconstruction_of_the_Communist_Party_of_Greece

Remember these guys? Bet they feel vindicated these days.

They have the reputation in Greece of being a CIA front, most small leftist parties in greece probably have more Secret Agents as members than actual voters.

Only the Greek Communist Party has a large enough base and ruthless Stalinism to prevent large scale infliltration by the intelligence community, however no one has any interest in doing so thanks to the 1974 deal.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

In exchange for legalization and public sector jobs for all it's members, the Communists were to prevent revolutions from occuring, such as the one in 2011.

Here is a map of the Universe of the Greek left with all it's splinters, satellites, planets, ect.

https://ecoleft.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/cf84cebf-cf84ceb1cf81ceb1cf87cf8eceb4ceb5cf82-cf83cf8dcebccf80ceb1cebd-cf84ceb7cf82-ceb5cebbcebbceb7cebdceb9cebaceaecf82-ceb1cf81ceb9.jpg

i would vote mera25

[Steve from Lambeth]

Four of the largest banks in Greece - NBG, Alpha, Eurobank and Piraeus - have all placed television adverts in recent days promoting their participation in the national government's "Spiti mou" (mortgage/housebuying support) program. Is this part of Mitsotakis' play for re-election, or is it just a coincidence that I'm just noticing all of these ads now and they've actually been on the TV channels' ad rotation for the past few months?

[oldtimer]

SUMMARY OF CAMPAIGN WEEK 2:

After the Tit for Tat scandals of Week 1, the stench this week is of a different smell.


Government Moves:

3rd increase in the minimum wage.

Food ration coupons for the Easter holidays.

The government did a promotion of the old Helinicon project.

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The now more than a decade old $10 billion construction project by troubled real estate company Lamda, that progresses at snails pace.

The project never made sense, because why would Arabs invest in Athens and not Dubai ?

(Lamda might be a financial ticking bomb, that the greek banks have propped up with loans for years. According to the press some of those banks are now cutting their links to the project due to spiralling costs, endless construction delays, interest rates, and lack of foreign interest.)

The government also announced a further change to the electoral law (the 3rd in 3 years).

The new change is mostly about increasing the size of the court that controls the process from 5 to 10,  in order to increase the governing N.D. majority on the court and make sure that Mitsotakis can ban any opposition party he likes.


Opposition Moves

The Opposition (apart from centrist PASOK) denounced the further change in the electoral law just before the election, and the increased power Mitsotakis will have in the judiciary.

The Vice President of the greek Supreme Civil and Criminal Court also denounced the efforts of Mitsotakis to expand his control of the judiciary. The government replied to the judges that only it has the power to make law, not the judges.


Scandal of the Week

A 5th assasination attempt against the little 12 year old girl that is the center of the great Kolonos Child Prostitution Sex Scandal.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1208050/12-year-old-kolonos-sex-trafficking-victim-suffers-knife-attack-according-to-her-lawyers/

Warning, might be too horrible for those under aged 18:

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She was sold by a medium level ND Athens party official, to be raped by 232 men over a period of 2 years.

https://greekherald.com.au/news/horrific-act-greek-police-identify-man-accused-of-repeatedly-raping-12-year-old-girl/

https://en.rua.gr/2022/10/12/president-of-the-prostitutes-union-h-mihos-from-the-ruling-nd-sold-12-year-old-politicians-along-with-other-underage-girls/

The local police naturally avoided investigating the case or even arrest the culprit, until
the local precinct Captain (who was best pals with the Perpetrator) was replaced, but there is still procrastination by the authorities in investigating the case.

It doesn't help the public image of Mitsotakis that the culprit was well connected and well known to the local Athens politics, (to the point he received large government contracts) and Mitsotakis's associations to a number of people caught in sex scandals with minors.

Hence why some in the press has portayed him as a modern Caligula.
(I won't go further in the press allegations about Mitsotakis himself, they are too salacious even by greek standards, though these days you never know)

Once again I haven't seen a greek government this desperate to retain power since the 1989 elections.

[CumbrianLefty]

And people think the answer to that is to bump the actual victim off??

How utterly sick.

[oldtimer]

And people think the answer to that is to bump the actual victim off??

How utterly sick.

Standard practice for 3rd world countries if you want to prevent a testimony (or Los Angeles circa 1975, which Athens reminds me of, if you make a movie about 1970's southern california this is the place to recreate it).

And I refrain from opening a general thread about Greece just to post the reports of the greek press about local crime, no matter how big the case, if it doesn't affect politics.

But high crime rates do affect the local economy and the international reputation of a country.