🇬🇷 Greek politics and elections

[oldtimer]

I forgot to mention that the entire opposition has agreed that in the event of a coalition government, Mitsotakis will not be the PM.
PASOK has gravitated to naming it's ex-leader Vangelis Venizelos as PM.

Mitsotakis has ruled out anyone but himself, and threatened with repeated elections (the bulgarian scenario) until his party has the majority.

[Mike88]

That scandal involving the ND politician is just WTF. No words to describe it.

About coalitions, are you saying that if there's an Opposition majority, the most likely scenario, the leader of the biggest party in Opposition, Tsipras, will not be PM also? And, if the opposition is able to propose a majority alternative to ND, can Mitsotakis even block it?

[Independents for Nihilism]

I did not have "Mitsotakis is taken down by ND being implicated in a child sex trafficking scandal of near-Epstein proportions" on my bingo card. I'm morbidly intrigued to see how this plays out, with all due respect to the victim.

[oldtimer]

That scandal involving the ND politician is just WTF. No words to describe it.

About coalitions, are you saying that if there's an Opposition majority, the most likely scenario, the leader of the biggest party in Opposition, Tsipras, will not be PM also? And, if the opposition is able to propose a majority alternative to ND, can Mitsotakis even block it?

It's obvious at this point that PASOK will name Venizelos as PM in the event neither Tsipras or Mitsotakis has a majority, Tsipras will go for it at least temporarily.

But for that to happen you need the government to lose the case of the right to ban parties, which would ensure than ND will not have a majority in a second election (funny enough Venizelos is the biggest supporter of banning parties).

As for the scandal, yeah, I never believed any of the rumours in the press but after the arrest of that greek Supreme Court judge I now say you never know, and that child sex trafficing scandal reinforces it.

[oldtimer]

I did not have "Mitsotakis is taken down by ND being implicated in a child sex trafficking scandal of near-Epstein proportions" on my bingo card. I'm morbidly intrigued to see how this plays out, with all due respect to the victim.

I doubt he will go down just from that.

There was a time last Autumn when the rallying cry of the opposition was that ND where the party of child rapists, because there where too many cases and rumours about the ND party in the past few years.

However ND support is as tribal as any other greek party, it's difficult to squeeze it bellow 33% without a tribal alternative being presented and pushed by the media.

It would need Oligarchs like the Cretan Familias (who control almost all TV stations) to pull the plug on ND by temporarily supporting the opposition, but there is no sign of that so far. The main block is that the Mitsotakis family is part of the Familias too.

[oldtimer]

The senior judge that critisized the government yesterday over it's continuous last minute changes of the electoral law was forced to resign.
The governing ND party now gets to appoint his replacement.

[Mike88]

Parliament voted to ban National Party – Greeks from the elections. Supreme Court will decide its fate on 5 May:

https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1645899904148033536

[Antonio the Sixth]

The senior judge that critisized the government yesterday over it's continuous last minute changes of the electoral law was forced to resign.
The governing ND party now gets to appoint his replacement.

What do these last-minute changes consist of?

[Landslide Lyndon]

Don't take everything oldtimer writes at face value. He is obviously a leftist who opposes the current government and prone to exaggeration and dramatization.

[oldtimer]

Parliament voted to ban National Party – Greeks from the elections. Supreme Court will decide its fate on 5 May:

https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1645899904148033536

Every few weeks they change the election law.

The problem is the notion that a government by simple majority can do those things and at the very last minute just before the election, in order to blatantly try to lower the threshold for it's own majority.

[oldtimer]

Don't take everything oldtimer writes at face value. He is obviously a leftist who opposes the current government and prone to exaggeration and dramatization.

I'm always well sourced on controversial issues:

https://en.rua.gr/2023/04/10/supreme-court-vice-president-resigns-over-pressure-to-ban-party-greeks/

" Tzanerikos publicly opposed the new amendment, calling it government interference in the judiciary. He called it “unprecedented […] and direct interference in the work of the Supreme Court.” "

As for the specific accusations against me by you:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

I understand your complaints, but my summaries have to be summaries or else it would take thousands of words per day, so I have to condence things to something approaching a news flash.
If you want I can write something long and fun about Greek scandals again.

As for the accusation that I'm a leftist sympathizer, anyone on this forum can be accused of that on something, at least those not Republican.
It's too broad of a term for me to address it.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Don't take everything oldtimer writes at face value. He is obviously a leftist who opposes the current government and prone to exaggeration and dramatization.

I'm always well sourced on controversial issues:

https://en.rua.gr/2023/04/10/supreme-court-vice-president-resigns-over-pressure-to-ban-party-greeks/

" Tzanerikos publicly opposed the new amendment, calling it government interference in the judiciary. He called it “unprecedented […] and direct interference in the work of the Supreme Court.” "

As for the specific accusations against me by you:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

I understand your complaints, but my summaries have to be summaries or else it would take thousands of words per day, so I have to condence things to something approaching a news flash.
If you want I can write something long and fun about Greek scandals again.

As for the accusation that I'm a leftist sympathizer, anyone on this forum can be accused of that on something, at least those not Republican.
It's too broad of a term for me to address it.

You tried to link the case of the 12-year old rape victim with ND. Your credibility is less than zero.

[Conservatopia]

With respect Oldtimer, your analysis of UK politics is genuinely abysmal and really undermines my faith in your analysis of Greek politics.

Maybe tone down what you're saying here to just the objective facts and people be more inclined to respect your posts. You're not here to campaign - we can't vote.

[oldtimer]

Don't take everything oldtimer writes at face value. He is obviously a leftist who opposes the current government and prone to exaggeration and dramatization.

I'm always well sourced on controversial issues:

https://en.rua.gr/2023/04/10/supreme-court-vice-president-resigns-over-pressure-to-ban-party-greeks/

" Tzanerikos publicly opposed the new amendment, calling it government interference in the judiciary. He called it “unprecedented […] and direct interference in the work of the Supreme Court.” "

As for the specific accusations against me by you:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

I understand your complaints, but my summaries have to be summaries or else it would take thousands of words per day, so I have to condence things to something approaching a news flash.
If you want I can write something long and fun about Greek scandals again.

As for the accusation that I'm a leftist sympathizer, anyone on this forum can be accused of that on something, at least those not Republican.
It's too broad of a term for me to address it.

You tried to link the case of the 12-year old rape victim with ND. Your credibility is less than zero.

I post the sources on greek controversies for all to read, if you are not satisfied you can always post your own sources.

Greek scandals are not top secret, they are been published by greek newspapers all the time.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I post the sources on greek controversies for all to read, if you are not satisfied you can always post your own sources.

Greek scandals are not top secret, they have been published by greek newspapers all the time.

Saying that Mitsotakis had "connections" with many of the people who raped the girl is not facts, it's you editorializing and lying.
There was also a member of SYRIZA's central committee among her "clients" but I don't see you mentioning that Tsipras had connections too.

[kaoras]

Well I'm also kind of exceptical about many things old-timer says, but those accusing him of being leftist or campaigning for the left have read what he has wrote about SYRYZA or the Greek Left in general? Lmao (ie. He literally called them Slave-owners)

[oldtimer]

I post the sources on greek controversies for all to read, if you are not satisfied you can always post your own sources.

Greek scandals are not top secret, they have been published by greek newspapers all the time.

Saying that Mitsotakis had "connections" with many of the people who raped the girl is not facts, it's you editorializing and lying.
There was also a member of SYRIZA's central committee among her "clients" but I don't see you mentioning that Tsipras had connections too.

This is my quote that you missquoted :

"It doesn't help the public image of Mitsotakis that the culprit was well connected and well known to the local Athens politics, (to the point he received large government contracts) and Mitsotakis's associations to a number of people caught in sex scandals with minors."

And this is my source since you requested specifics:

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/238094/former-conservative-mp-convicted-of-paying-minors-for-sex/

"Former New Democracy lawmaker Nikos Georgiadis received a 28-month suspended prison sentence on Tuesday and was fined 20,000 euros after being found guilty by an Athens court of repeatedly paying minors for sex."

As to who that person was:

https://vouliwatch.gr/news/article/ektos-grammateias-politikoy-shediasmoy-o-nikos-georgiadis

That article is in greek but it refers him as "Secretary of Political Planning" and "close aid of Mr.Mitsotakis".

So as you see my quote is fairly on the money as a brief description of the situation.

Don't dare me to repost an entire greek sunday newspaper's worth of sourced material just to make you back down, I'm not in to obscure internet feuds, and they are too heavy.
Literally they weigh a good 5-6 pounds with all the extra magazines, they can break a window if you threw them.

And please post your own sources if you are not satisfied with my own.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I post the sources on greek controversies for all to read, if you are not satisfied you can always post your own sources.

Greek scandals are not top secret, they have been published by greek newspapers all the time.

Saying that Mitsotakis had "connections" with many of the people who raped the girl is not facts, it's you editorializing and lying.
There was also a member of SYRIZA's central committee among her "clients" but I don't see you mentioning that Tsipras had connections too.

This is my quote that you missquoted :

"It doesn't help the public image of Mitsotakis that the culprit was well connected and well known to the local Athens politics, (to the point he received large government contracts) and Mitsotakis's associations to a number of people caught in sex scandals with minors."

And this is my source since you requested specifics:

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/238094/former-conservative-mp-convicted-of-paying-minors-for-sex/

"Former New Democracy lawmaker Nikos Georgiadis received a 28-month suspended prison sentence on Tuesday and was fined 20,000 euros after being found guilty by an Athens court of repeatedly paying minors for sex."

As to who that person was:

https://vouliwatch.gr/news/article/ektos-grammateias-politikoy-shediasmoy-o-nikos-georgiadis

That article is in greek but it refers him as "Secretary of Political Planning" and "close aid of Mr.Mitsotakis".

So as you see my quote is fairly on the money as a brief description of the situation.

Don't dare me to repost an entire greek sunday newspaper's worth of sourced material just to make you back down, I'm not in to obscure internet feuds, and they are too heavy.
Literally they weigh a good 5-6 pounds with all the extra magazines, they can break a window if you threw them.

And please post your own sources if you are not satisfied with my own.

Georgiadis had no ties with Mitsotakis since 2016 when he was first arrested. To use his name in context with the totally irrelevant 2022 case, and then try to use this non-existent connection as proof that Mitsotakis and ND are knowingly harboring pedophiles, is an odious tactic used by online SYRIZA trolls in a naked attempt to exploit a human tragedy for political purposes.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The senior judge that critisized the government yesterday over it's continuous last minute changes of the electoral law was forced to resign.
The governing ND party now gets to appoint his replacement.

What do these last-minute changes consist of?

Instead of litigating the objectivity of the poster who made this claim, it would have been nice if someone could have actually discussed the specific claims involved by, you know, answering my question.

[oldtimer]

The senior judge that critisized the government yesterday over it's continuous last minute changes of the electoral law was forced to resign.
The governing ND party now gets to appoint his replacement.

What do these last-minute changes consist of?

Instead of litigating the objectivity of the poster who made this claim, it would have been nice if someone could have actually discussed the specific claims involved by, you know, answering my question.

Here is basically a quick summary:

It expands the size of the court that decides the function of the election process from 5 to 10 (temporarily down to 9 after the most recent resignation on Monday of a dissenting judge), defacto increasing the governing party's majority on the court.

The problem is the way and the time that it is done (by simple majority and at the last day in session of the parliament), hence the protests by the opposition and some in the judiciary.

In a soccer match analogy, it's like one team picking the referees just before the match starts.

[oldtimer]

I post the sources on greek controversies for all to read, if you are not satisfied you can always post your own sources.

Greek scandals are not top secret, they have been published by greek newspapers all the time.

Saying that Mitsotakis had "connections" with many of the people who raped the girl is not facts, it's you editorializing and lying.
There was also a member of SYRIZA's central committee among her "clients" but I don't see you mentioning that Tsipras had connections too.

This is my quote that you missquoted :

"It doesn't help the public image of Mitsotakis that the culprit was well connected and well known to the local Athens politics, (to the point he received large government contracts) and Mitsotakis's associations to a number of people caught in sex scandals with minors."

And this is my source since you requested specifics:

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/238094/former-conservative-mp-convicted-of-paying-minors-for-sex/

"Former New Democracy lawmaker Nikos Georgiadis received a 28-month suspended prison sentence on Tuesday and was fined 20,000 euros after being found guilty by an Athens court of repeatedly paying minors for sex."

As to who that person was:

https://vouliwatch.gr/news/article/ektos-grammateias-politikoy-shediasmoy-o-nikos-georgiadis

That article is in greek but it refers him as "Secretary of Political Planning" and "close aid of Mr.Mitsotakis".

So as you see my quote is fairly on the money as a brief description of the situation.

Don't dare me to repost an entire greek sunday newspaper's worth of sourced material just to make you back down, I'm not in to obscure internet feuds, and they are too heavy.
Literally they weigh a good 5-6 pounds with all the extra magazines, they can break a window if you threw them.

And please post your own sources if you are not satisfied with my own.

Georgiadis had no ties with Mitsotakis since 2016 when he was first arrested. To use his name in context with the totally irrelevant 2022 case, and then try to use this non-existent connection as proof that Mitsotakis and ND are knowingly harboring pedophiles, is an odious tactic used by online SYRIZA trolls in a naked attempt to exploit a human tragedy for political purposes.

Here we go again:

And by the way "fushta" means "skirt" in greek.

[Mike88]

Ok, some ground rules in order to not derail this thread:

Anyone can post news stories about scandals, cases, whatever, but, try to always post a link or a twitter/facebook post of the story from a media outlet/newspaper with a general summary of the story, added with quotes if that's necessary. That way it can be verified and confirmed.

[oldtimer]

Ok, some ground rules in order to not derail this thread:

Anyone can post news stories about scandals, cases, whatever, but, try to always post a link or a twitter/facebook post of the story from a media outlet/newspaper with a general summary of the story, added with quotes if that's necessary. That way it can be verified and confirmed.

I agree.

[oldtimer]

Summary of Week 3:

Apart from the judicial battles on Monday and Tuesday, nothing due to Easter Holidays.

The Oligarchs where busy about control of the Greek Football Federation:

https://www.vavel.com/en/international-football/2023/04/11/1143441-a-corruption-ring-in-greece-what-is-happening-in-greek-football.html

Though the official statements where milder than the ones 2 weeks ago when they threw skirts at each other:

Also an increase in electricity bills has been announced for May, an average increase of 72% due to an increase in fixed transmision charges of 752.7% (I couldn't find an english translation so it's in greek) :

https://www.newsbomb.gr/oikonomia/story/1415771/nees-megales-afksiseis-apo-1i-maiou-sta-pagia-tou-ilektrikoy-reymatos-analytika-paradeigmata

However most people wont receive their bloated power bills until after the election of May 21st.

[Sir Mohamed]

What governing coalition is most likely with ND coming in 1st place, but losing their majority? Greece is one of the countries that have little experience with coalition govts. SYRIZA governed with the right populist ANEL before; ND with the Social Dems after the 2012 election.