Whoopi says having abortions is a painful and tough thing that Republicans don't get

[Ferguson97]

At the same time, there is a contingent on the left whose rhetoric on this issue isn't merely of "tragic circumstances" and "the toughest decision of someone's life" but more "a fetus is nothing more than a parasite" and "abortion is an powerful expression of freedom". You can see why it can be easy to type-cast the pro-choice crowd as the pro-abortion crowd.

I mean isn't it to be expected that there would be multiple reasons why someone may be pro-choice? If you're pro-life, it's because you think abortion is murder. There's really no other reason, except for that, to oppose abortion that makes sense. But there can be many reasons why someone might support the right to abortion. So naturally, there is going to be less uniformity in messaging. There are pro-choice people who view abortion in the same light as having a mole removed, and there are pro-choice people who view it as a very difficult decision.

[Joe Republic]

Any abortion is always a tragedy.

Hot take: if the fetus is already dead or is guaranteed to be dead before birth, and the life of the mother is at risk, it isn't a tragedy.

I mean… it still kind of is… especially if the pregnancy was wanted.

[Badger]

So? Whatever your opinion on abortion, nobody will deny it is a hard and painful decision to make.

AU contraire. Severely. Spend 2 minutes talking with an anti-abortion advocate about the plight of pregnant women and why they choose abortions and the majority act like such procedures are usually done frivolously, almost recreationally.

You are giving most of such people's sense of empathy far more credit than they are due.

[Badger]

Any abortion is always a tragedy. Among those who actually get abortions, virtually no one quickly and callously decides to end the life of a child in the womb. Pro-lifers mustn't ignore the weight of these situations and not merely condemn abortion but vocally support alternatives to it along with policies that would help prevent women from being in these situations in the first place.

At the same time, there is a contingent on the left whose rhetoric on this issue isn't merely of "tragic circumstances" and "the toughest decision of someone's life" but more "a fetus is nothing more than a parasite" and "abortion is an powerful expression of freedom". You can see why it can be easy to type-cast the pro-choice crowd as the pro-abortion crowd.

I m h o, having interacted and debated much with both types, it seems to me that the callousness on the right you describe is far far more common than those perpetually online leftist Twitter bugs who think abortion is some kind of feminist sacrament. Just saying.

[fhtagn]

So? Whatever your opinion on abortion, nobody will deny it is a hard and painful decision to make.

AU contraire. Severely. Spend 2 minutes talking with an anti-abortion advocate about the plight of pregnant women and why they choose abortions and the majority act like such procedures are usually done frivolously, almost recreationally.

You are giving most of such people's sense of empathy far more credit than they are due.

Less than 10% of abortions are performed as a result of rape, incest, the child having some sort of health condition, or a threat to the life of the mother or child. The vast majority (about 90% of them) are done for purely elective reasons, not because there was a real medical need for one.

[Badger]

So? Whatever your opinion on abortion, nobody will deny it is a hard and painful decision to make.

AU contraire. Severely. Spend 2 minutes talking with an anti-abortion advocate about the plight of pregnant women and why they choose abortions and the majority act like such procedures are usually done frivolously, almost recreationally.

You are giving most of such people's sense of empathy far more credit than they are due.

Less than 10% of abortions are performed as a result of rape, incest, the child having some sort of health condition, or a threat to the life of the mother or child. The vast majority (about 90% of them) are done for purely elective reasons, not because there was a real medical need for one.

Your definition of all abortions not resulting from rape or medical necessity as "elective" is almost willfully vicious, and proves my point in spades.

[fhtagn]

So? Whatever your opinion on abortion, nobody will deny it is a hard and painful decision to make.

AU contraire. Severely. Spend 2 minutes talking with an anti-abortion advocate about the plight of pregnant women and why they choose abortions and the majority act like such procedures are usually done frivolously, almost recreationally.

You are giving most of such people's sense of empathy far more credit than they are due.

Less than 10% of abortions are performed as a result of rape, incest, the child having some sort of health condition, or a threat to the life of the mother or child. The vast majority (about 90% of them) are done for purely elective reasons, not because there was a real medical need for one.

Your definition of all abortions not resulting from rape or medical necessity as "elective" is almost willfully vicious, and proves my point in spades.

If you don't know what "elective" means, you can just say that.

[jojoju1998]

Banning Abortions won't reduce abortions. It just drives things underground. Have we learned anything from the Prohibition era folks ?

The best way to cut down on abortions ( in my view ) is to address the root causes that cause a person to have an abortion in the first place.

[jojoju1998]

And we protect ALL life. Not just before birth. But every life.


Don't forget that Republicans.

[fhtagn]

Banning Abortions won't reduce abortions. It just drives things underground. Have we learned anything from the Prohibition era folks ?

The best way to cut down on abortions ( in my view ) is to address the root causes that cause a person to have an abortion in the first place.

Abortion doesn't need to be legal to do that.

[jojoju1998]

Banning Abortions won't reduce abortions. It just drives things underground. Have we learned anything from the Prohibition era folks ?

The best way to cut down on abortions ( in my view ) is to address the root causes that cause a person to have an abortion in the first place.

Abortion doesn't need to be legal to do that.

That's not the issue.


Banning abortions with no comprehensive plan to promote a culture of life is just giving into the Evangelical Nonsense.

By the way, Assuming we ban abortion. Let's repeal the death penalty as well. Let's end Euthnasia. Let's care for our migrants.

Pro Life at all stages. Catholic Social Teaching 101. ( So no one can accuse me of being a heretic.).

[TPIG]

At the same time, there is a contingent on the left whose rhetoric on this issue isn't merely of "tragic circumstances" and "the toughest decision of someone's life" but more "a fetus is nothing more than a parasite" and "abortion is an powerful expression of freedom". You can see why it can be easy to type-cast the pro-choice crowd as the pro-abortion crowd.

I mean isn't it to be expected that there would be multiple reasons why someone may be pro-choice? If you're pro-life, it's because you think abortion is murder. There's really no other reason, except for that, to oppose abortion that makes sense. But there can be many reasons why someone might support the right to abortion. So naturally, there is going to be less uniformity in messaging. There are pro-choice people who view abortion in the same light as having a mole removed, and there are pro-choice people who view it as a very difficult decision.

Sure, not an unfair assessment at all. With that though, I also don't think it's unfair for pro-lifers to devote a good amount of focus to the particularly odious and disproportionately loud voices who push pro-abortionism in grotesque ways. 

[TPIG]

Any abortion is always a tragedy. Among those who actually get abortions, virtually no one quickly and callously decides to end the life of a child in the womb. Pro-lifers mustn't ignore the weight of these situations and not merely condemn abortion but vocally support alternatives to it along with policies that would help prevent women from being in these situations in the first place.

At the same time, there is a contingent on the left whose rhetoric on this issue isn't merely of "tragic circumstances" and "the toughest decision of someone's life" but more "a fetus is nothing more than a parasite" and "abortion is an powerful expression of freedom". You can see why it can be easy to type-cast the pro-choice crowd as the pro-abortion crowd.

I m h o, having interacted and debated much with both types, it seems to me that the callousness on the right you describe is far far more common than those perpetually online leftist Twitter bugs who think abortion is some kind of feminist sacrament. Just saying.

Really? I'm obviously biased, but I tend to find pro-lifers forced into more thoughtfully elaborating their position by virtue of it being a minority position. Whereas pro-choicers have the relatively easier task of saying "clump of cells" and "you hate women" and thinking they've won the debate.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Banning Abortions won't reduce abortions. It just drives things underground. Have we learned anything from the Prohibition era folks ?

The best way to cut down on abortions ( in my view ) is to address the root causes that cause a person to have an abortion in the first place.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-abortion/number-of-abortions-in-texas-dropped-97-in-month-after-supreme-courts-roe-v-wade-ruling/

[DaleCooper]

I think if you say, "You're murdering babies!" two more times then people will finally start agreeing with you.

[fhtagn]

I think if you say, "You're murdering babies!" two more times then people will finally start agreeing with you.

It's never a good look to dehumanize actual human beings, but keep pretending it does your position any good.

[DaleCooper]

I think if you say, "You're murdering babies!" two more times then people will finally start agreeing with you.

It's never a good look to dehumanize actual human beings, but keep pretending it does your position any good.

Who was I dehumanizing?

[T'Chenka]

Any abortion is always a tragedy.

Hot take: if the fetus is already dead or is guaranteed to be dead before birth, and the life of the mother is at risk, it isn't a tragedy.

I mean… it still kind of is… especially if the pregnancy was wanted.

I would counter that the tragedy has already occurred and is in the rearview mirror, in that scenario, and now the abortion is a good thing in the present.

[T'Chenka]

What hard facts do you have to say that a fetus isn't a living human being? To say that it's not a human being because it hasn't reached an arbitrary threshold of development is a moral argument, not a scientific one. Life begins at conception. Stages of development don't determine whether or not something belongs to a particular species.

You could also under this definition call an amputated leg a living human being.

Um...no? Find me an amputated human leg that continues to develop, gains new functions, and grows with time...

Continuing to develop, gain new functions and grow over time is not an accurate definition of a living human being. Some living human beings are 60 years old, and will no longer gain new functions or grow over time / develop. If you hook the amputated human leg up to something that will pump blood the correct type of oxygenated blood in and out of it, it will stay alive, at least, for a while. So it's living, has skin cells that will divide (create new cells) over time, and isn't required to gain new functions or grow or develop.

Anyways, my point with this whole leg that was that "it's the same species therefore it's a human" was a bad argument.

[DaleCooper]

Set aside all the mantric repetition from conservative hacks. The percentage of people in this country who actually desire an abortion ban that lines up with what the GOP wants is such a small minority that they are statistically insignificant and are only relevant in this nation because of the race to the bottom that is the Republican primary. This will continue to be proven until the Republicans either get voted out or give up on this. Like many dead-end conservative culture war issues, this one is dying off rapidly.

[TPIG]

What hard facts do you have to say that a fetus isn't a living human being? To say that it's not a human being because it hasn't reached an arbitrary threshold of development is a moral argument, not a scientific one. Life begins at conception. Stages of development don't determine whether or not something belongs to a particular species.

You could also under this definition call an amputated leg a living human being.

Um...no? Find me an amputated human leg that continues to develop, gains new functions, and grows with time...

Continuing to develop, gain new functions and grow over time is not an accurate definition of a living human being. Some living human beings are 60 years old, and will no longer gain new functions or grow over time / develop. If you hook the amputated human leg up to something that will pump blood the correct type of oxygenated blood in and out of it, it will stay alive, at least, for a while. So it's living, has skin cells that will divide (create new cells) over time, and isn't required to gain new functions or grow or develop.

Anyways, my point with this whole leg that was that "it's the same species therefore it's a human" was a bad argument.

Sure, but the fact that fetuses have the capacity to develop and 60 somethings HAD that potential, speaks to the humanity of both. We're simply speaking in terms of stages of development. I wasn't trying to say these were the only factors that determined personhood.

We can also add to that the critical fact that unlike an amputated leg, a fetus is a separate biological entity, with its own, unique genetic code - entirely separate from its mother.

This separate biological entity is, additionally, a full human being at a particular stage of development. Your humanity is not determined by the stage of development reached but rather the very fact that you're offspring of other humans. All human life has dignity and is worthy of protection!

[jojoju1998]

I am not going to support beating a hornest's nest because of my own personal beliefs. There. As Dale Cooper said once to me on this very issue, I am not going to open up a Pandora's box, just so that some can virtue signal about saving babies.

[the artist formerly known as catmusic]

Most people have 0 concept of what actually happens with abortions and why people elect to get them.

"Late-term abortion" is a buzzword for the right. First of all, this is about 1% of abortions. And do people even know what having an abortion that late into pregnancy means? It means the mother would die during childbirth, or the baby has an almost certainly fatal birth defect. Often these are Trisomy 13/18 babies - most of whom, if they survive birth at all, live 5-15 days in excruciating pain. My cousin is an OBGYN. She held so many babies as they died gasping for air because their parents refused to terminate the pregnancy, and after birth found it too emotionally difficult to be with the child. So you tell me, what would be the more humane route here, to terminate the pregnancy, which at that stage essentially involves putting them to sleep and inducing labor, or to have a baby die, in pain, with a stranger?

This is a harsh and disturbing thing to post, I know, but I think people should realize the reality of what abortion is. It's not some lady walking in when she's in labor saying "I didn't know I was pregnant get this out of me!" It's usually a painful choice the mother doesn't want to have to make. And it often comes down to choosing termination of pregnancy as the more humane option. I know that is hard for some of you to grasp, but is forcing the baby to go though these things really humane? Beyond them, think of the trauma that's been induced on the parents...then think of the trauma induced on doctors, who hold infants while they die. The framing of abortion by religious movements is disgusting and unbelievably disrespectful to the pain people have gone through. Life is precious, but so are the lives of the mothers and their families.

[Torie]

Calm down Whoopi. Congressional Pubs have finally got around to reading my posts and are recalibrating their messaging on abortion to reflect the center of gravity of public sentiment. That is what happens when an issue becomes subject to legislative action, and the voters weigh in - well at least sometimes. That is the way it is supposed to work isnn't it?

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3786449-republicans-rethink-abortion-strategy-after-bruising-midterms/

[Badger]

Most people have 0 concept of what actually happens with abortions and why people elect to get them.

"Late-term abortion" is a buzzword for the right. First of all, this is about 1% of abortions. And do people even know what having an abortion that late into pregnancy means? It means the mother would die during childbirth, or the baby has an almost certainly fatal birth defect. Often these are Trisomy 13/18 babies - most of whom, if they survive birth at all, live 5-15 days in excruciating pain. My cousin is an OBGYN. She held so many babies as they died gasping for air because their parents refused to terminate the pregnancy, and after birth found it too emotionally difficult to be with the child. So you tell me, what would be the more humane route here, to terminate the pregnancy, which at that stage essentially involves putting them to sleep and inducing labor, or to have a baby die, in pain, with a stranger?

This is a harsh and disturbing thing to post, I know, but I think people should realize the reality of what abortion is. It's not some lady walking in when she's in labor saying "I didn't know I was pregnant get this out of me!" It's usually a painful choice the mother doesn't want to have to make. And it often comes down to choosing termination of pregnancy as the more humane option. I know that is hard for some of you to grasp, but is forcing the baby to go though these things really humane? Beyond them, think of the trauma that's been induced on the parents...then think of the trauma induced on doctors, who hold infants while they die. The framing of abortion by religious movements is disgusting and unbelievably disrespectful to the pain people have gone through. Life is precious, but so are the lives of the mothers and their families.

"Baby killer! Killing babies!! Your cousin is just baby killer and it's no different than slitting the throat of her entire family!" Most conservatives, probably unquestionably.