What states are more socially conservative than its voting suggests? (user search)
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  What states are more socially conservative than its voting suggests? (search mode)
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Author Topic: What states are more socially conservative than its voting suggests?  (Read 1878 times)
David Hume
davidhume
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« on: March 18, 2023, 09:45:04 AM »

Hawaii is a lot more socially conservative than people realize.

Hawai'i is peak "socially right, culturally left" as far as US states are concerned.

Seriously speaking, what's the difference between being culturally left and socially left (or culturally right and socially right)? I know it's a meme, but I'm actually wondering why/how you draw this distinction for HI.

Morality/sexuality/religion vs Race/pluralism/nationalism/globalism. HI is culturally left due to its racial progressivism but also maybe environmentalism to some extent. It’s also relatively devout/spiritual and more conservative on LGBT issues due to the stronger overall (not just Christian) religious influence. Relatively low atheist/agnostic share among the disaggregated Asian population per Abdullah’s threads.

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=294136.0

Social Conservatism- Rooted in support for traditional moral values, often through Christianity (or some sects of Judaism/Islam).  The issues that they care about are issues of the moral majority.  Abortion and gay/transgender issues get the most attention, but most of these voters are also opposed to secularism in general and to specific things like casual sex and pornography, at least on a personal basis.

Cultural Conservatism- This is based in a desire to conserve a type of culture.  This often manifests itself in opposing immigration and Islam, as well as some other race-based controversies.  It is not always explicitly racist, but it can get there on the fringe.  The alt-right and alt-light are extreme examples of cultural conservatism, but not all cultural conservatives go that far.  Still, its motivations are diametrically opposed to the motivations of social conservatism and people in this group are relatively secular in outlook.  Most don't care about abortion or if they do, it's only because SJW feminists support it.  Likewise, they may support pornography because some feminists don't like it.  It's all about getting back at any group trying to change the culture.

How would non-religious but anti-woke conservative libertarians fall into this classification?
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David Hume
davidhume
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,628
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: 1.22

P P
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2023, 12:28:36 AM »

Hawaii is a lot more socially conservative than people realize.

Hawai'i is peak "socially right, culturally left" as far as US states are concerned.

Seriously speaking, what's the difference between being culturally left and socially left (or culturally right and socially right)? I know it's a meme, but I'm actually wondering why/how you draw this distinction for HI.

Morality/sexuality/religion vs Race/pluralism/nationalism/globalism. HI is culturally left due to its racial progressivism but also maybe environmentalism to some extent. It’s also relatively devout/spiritual and more conservative on LGBT issues due to the stronger overall (not just Christian) religious influence. Relatively low atheist/agnostic share among the disaggregated Asian population per Abdullah’s threads.

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=294136.0

Social Conservatism- Rooted in support for traditional moral values, often through Christianity (or some sects of Judaism/Islam).  The issues that they care about are issues of the moral majority.  Abortion and gay/transgender issues get the most attention, but most of these voters are also opposed to secularism in general and to specific things like casual sex and pornography, at least on a personal basis.

Cultural Conservatism- This is based in a desire to conserve a type of culture.  This often manifests itself in opposing immigration and Islam, as well as some other race-based controversies.  It is not always explicitly racist, but it can get there on the fringe.  The alt-right and alt-light are extreme examples of cultural conservatism, but not all cultural conservatives go that far.  Still, its motivations are diametrically opposed to the motivations of social conservatism and people in this group are relatively secular in outlook.  Most don't care about abortion or if they do, it's only because SJW feminists support it.  Likewise, they may support pornography because some feminists don't like it.  It's all about getting back at any group trying to change the culture.

How would non-religious but anti-woke conservative libertarians fall into this classification?

It really depends on where individual conservative libertarians stand on the issues. On paper they would be "socially moderate but culturally conservative". But I don't think "anti-woke" voters are inherently aligned with the US right on race relations, opinions of immigrants, social mobility through hard work (I don't think there's much difference between the two parties on this tbh), gender equality, environmental protections, civic engagement, etc. I generally side with the US left on these issues, but I also agree with many criticisms of "wokeness" that "anti-woke" people bring up, even if I don't care about it enough to vote R over more concrete bread-and-butter concerns.

Side tangent: I get the impression that Chinese culture is more accepting of abortion and also more thoroughly secular than the other Confucianist countries, which are still more secular and pluralistic than the other Asian countries that have large diaspora communities in the US. I don't perceive Chinese immigrants to the US (or contemporary China for that matter) to be more pro-LGBT. But at the same time I suspect Taiwan's relative acceptance of LGBT rights is mostly due to stronger secular and humanistic impulses from its Chinese cultural heritage.
I should probably say anti-PC to be more precise. For racial affairs, support equal opportunity over equal outcome, color-blind over affirmative action. For LGBT affairs, tolerate LGBT rights like gay marriage, but against LGBT sex education to minors (teaching 9 year old things like sex is fluid and you can be a girl born in a boy's body.) For social orders, support death penalty and against soft on crime.

I do not quite agree with Inglehart–Welzel in secular vs traditional values dichotomy. Do you consider confucian secular or traditional? They are secular in the sense of little influence from Abrahamic religions. For example, abortion is not a salient issue at all in Confucian societies. They are more tolerant to LGBT historically as well. But on the other hand, they share a lot of similarities with traditional values. For sexuality, they are very conservative, against sex before marriage and strongly prefer virgins, which are similar to Islamic, Hindu, Catholic traditional values.

Another issue is crime and social order. Traditional societies usually strongly support death penalty. Yet the Catholic church is against it, and as the result, a lot of Catholic societies abolished death penalty.

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