Historical Presidential Results if the President/VP was elected separately
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  Historical Presidential Results if the President/VP was elected separately
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Vice President Christian Man
Christian Man
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« on: December 13, 2022, 11:44:13 PM »
« edited: December 14, 2022, 02:27:16 AM by Lincoln General Court Representative Christian Man »

In this alternate history, separate Presidential/VP elections were included in the 17th amendment. There's no primary for VP, like OTL, each nominee chooses the one for their party, however they can choose to run for re-election whether the incumbent is term-limited or not.  Here's how I think it would be.

1916-1944: N.C.
1948: Harry Truman/Earl Warren; Defeats Thomas Dewey (Pres)/Alben Barkley (VP)
1952: Dwight Eisenhower/Earl Warren; Defeats Adlai Stevenson/John Sparkman
1956: Dwight Eisenhower/Richard Nixon; Defeats Adlai Stevenson/Estes Kefauver
1960: John F. Kennedy/Richard Nixon; Defeats Nelson Rockfeller (Pres) and Lyndon Johnson (VP)
1964: Richard Nixon/Henry Cabot Lodge; Defeats Robert Kennedy/Walter Reuther & George Wallace (Pres)/Curtis LeMay (VP)
1968: Hubert Humphrey/Terry Sanford; Defeats Richard Nixon/Henry Cabot Lodge
1972: Hubert Humphrey/Terry Sanford; Defeats Richard Nixon/ Sprio Agnew
1976: Ronald Reagan/Walter Mondale; Defeats Terry Sanford (Pres) and Richard Schweiker (VP)
1980: Walter Mondale/George H.W. Bush; Defeats Ronald Reagan (Pres) and Teddy Kennedy (VP)
1984: George H.W. Bush/John Anderson; Defeats Walter Mondale/Geraldine Ferraro
1988: George H.W. Bush/Lloyd Bentsen; Defeats Michael Dukakis (Pres)/John Anderson (VP)
1992: Bill Clinton/Al Gore; Defeats Bob Dole/Jack Kemp, and Ross Perot/James Stockdale (VP)
1996: Bill Clinton/Al Gore; Defeats George W. Bush/Dick Cheney & Ross Perot/Pat Chote
2000: John McCain/Jeb Bush; Defeats Al Gore/Evan Bayh
2004: John McCain/John "Jeb" Bush; Defeats John Kerry/John Edwards
2008: Barack Obama/Joe Biden; Defeats Mitt Romney/ Tim Pawlenty
2012: Barack Obama/Joe Biden; Defeats Rick Santorum/Mike Huckabee
2016: Donald Trump/Tim Kaine; Defeats Hillary Clinton (Pres) and Mike Pence (VP)
2020: Joe Biden/Tim Kaine; Defeats Donald Trump/Kristi Noem

Interesting scenario but not much different from our timeline other than the last half of the 20th century

President List
1-35: Same as OTL
36th President: Richard Nixon (1963-1969)
37th President: Hubert Humphrey (1969-1977)
38th President: Ronald Reagan (1977-1981)
39th President: Walter Mondale (1981-1985)
40th President: George H.W. Bush (1985-1993)
41st President: Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
42nd President: John McCain (2001-2009)
43rd President: Barack Obama (2009-2017)
44th President: Donald Trump (2017-2021)
45th President: Joe Biden (2021-)

Vice President List (Different from OTL):
1-34: Same as OTL
35th Vice President: Earl Warren (1949-1957)
36th Vice President: Richard Nixon (1957-1963)
37th Vice President: Henry Cabot Lodge (1963-1969)
38th Vice President: Terry Sanford (1969-1977)
39th Vice President: Walter Mondale (1977-1981)
40th Vice President: George H.W. Bush (1981-1985)
41st Vice President: John Anderson (1985-1989)
42nd Vice President: Lloyd Bentsen (1989-1997)
43rd Vice President: Al Gore (1997-2001)
44th Vice President: Jeb Bush (2001-2009)
45th Vice President: Joe Biden (2009-2017)
46th Vice President: Tim Kaine (2017-Present)

Summary of some elections:
1948: Warren narrowly defeats Barkley winning over some more moderate states that went to Truman.

1964: Nixon defeats Kennedy by a narrow margin largely thanks to Wallace playing a spoiler. LeMay doesn't win any E.V. but Lodge manages to win the South because of opposition to Reuther's liberalism.

1968: Almost the opposite of 1968 OTL and without Wallace, Sanford sweeps the South and Humphrey is able to narrowly win the election thanks to Sanford's coattails.

1972: Nixon narrowly fails to take back the White House in a comeback attempt, although Sanford wins comfortably despite Agnew's somewhat failed "Southern Strategy".

1976: Nixon lost in an embarrassing comeback attempt for governor in 1974 and narrowly loses a tight primary challenge to former California governor Ronald Reagan. Meanwhile things are smooth on the Dem side with Sanford easily winning the primary. Despite Sanford being the favorite in polling, Reagan is able to split the vote in the MidWest/South delivering a small but modest victory. Meanwhile Mondale easily defeats Schewiker despite underperforming him in The Northeast due to stronger margins in the MidWest/South.

1980: Mondale challenges Reagan and wins in a landslide due to declining economic conditions and a military conflict in Iran. Meanwhile Kennedy loses to Bush by a comfortable margin due to Bush taking a moderate stance and Kennedy's perceived liberalism.

1984: Despite an economic recovery, Mondale was unsuccessful in ending what has become a full scale Middle East War with Soviet support. As a result Bush wins comfortably, although short of a landslide. Meanwhile he chooses the liberal Ferraro who loses to Anderson in a landslide because of her liberalism.

1988: Thriving economic conditions and peace abroad means that Bush cruises to re-election despite the Farm Crisis which hurts him in the Farm Belt. Meanwhile Bentsen uses the Farm Belt as well as a moderate approach to defeat Anderson in a closely watched Vice Presidential race, thanks to winning back the South and outperforming Bush in The Midwest.

1992: Clinton sweeps the South, particularly in Appalachia and is able to beat Bob Dole, while Bentsen wins re-election in a landslide.

1996: Clinton defeats George W. Bush comfortably. Al Gore is chosen and is able to beat Dick Cheney who was seen as too hawkish.

2000: Al Gore declines a second term as VP, instead running for President. He easily wins the primary but is narrowly defeated by John McCain and Jeb Bush because of the state of Florida. Gore and his VP nominee Bayh both file separate lawsuits against Florida and loses. The Bayh race was disappointing because he expected to win back parts of the MidWest but Bush's coattails and family popularity hurt him there.

2004: McCain wins narrowly against John Kerry, while incumbent VP Bush manages to win comfortably against John Edwards who comes up short in the South, an area he had hoped to win back. Foreign policy is a large role with Kerry/Edwards both supporting The Iraq War but opposing McCain/Bush's implementation of it.

2008: Obama wins against Mitt Romney although he did not perform as strongly as anticipated. Meanwhile Joe Biden won the VP election although Pawlenty hindered what he thought would be a Midwest/Appalachia sweep.

2012: Obama cruises to re-election against Santorum, slightly outperforming his 2008 performance. The VP race is tighter but Biden remained victorious.

2016: Trump won in an upset against Hillary Clinton, winning back several MidWestern states which had been consistently Democratic since the 1980's. Meanwhile Tim Kaine carried those states as well as The Southeast allowing him to become Vice President.

2020: Biden comfortably beats Trump but doesn't perform as strongly as Kaine who beats South Dakota governor Kristi Noem, once seen as a rising star by a landslide.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2022, 05:30:45 PM »

I could see 2016 being a Trump/Kaine split decision since the secular-ish independents who swung massively to Trump might not vote for Pence separately.

Don't see any reason Biden wouldn't win with Obama both times.  However, president might have been notably closer in 2008 without Palin being tied to McCain, but not enough to change the outcome. 

I expect Lieberman would defeat Cheney pretty easily in 2000 and probably win in 2004 as well to be Bush's VP the whole time.  Bush would likely win the PV both times, as Lieberman probably helped Gore significantly in NY and FL. 

Don't see any reason Gore wouldn't win with Clinton both times. 

The next opportunity for a split would be Bush/Bentsen, which feels like it really could happen based on that debate, but Bush won so decisively he could still pull Quayle along with him, so IDK?

Kennedy would likely end up with Nixon as his VP instead of LBJ, because it was so close and the one-time Catholic boost wouldn't translate downballot as easily.  Major, major butterfly effects from that, obviously.  OTOH, Kennedy probably doesn't end up visiting Texas as much without LBJ.

Earl Warren obviously wins California in the separate VP election, but he still needs more states.  He could flip some other Western states and I imagine he would do better than Generic R of that era in Chicago, so it could be enough.  It's a big Dem senate majority, so keep in mind he needs an outright majority of EV.  I think the most likely outcome is the Senate electing Barkley.

Beyond that, it was a bunch of landslides in a row for decades.

Fairbanks could reasonably have won with Wilson in 1916.  It would have been an EV/PV split for VP, which would be interesting.
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